<!--QuoteBegin-TOmekki+Feb 17 2005, 08:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki @ Feb 17 2005, 08:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> spores are very effective, shame on you if you disagree <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> To a certain degree "yes".
<!--QuoteBegin-KungFuDiscoMonkey+Feb 17 2005, 09:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Feb 17 2005, 09:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Lofung and UKchaos: The version of Altair that y'all played is around 7 versions removed from the build that the CM and other playtesters are now playing. Normally I would ask for feedback but since that version is so far removed, it would be somewhat pointless. The only thing I ask is that you give the new version a fair chance. I realize the version that the pubs currently has is sevearly lacking and does not live up to the rest of the ns maps. I assure you that the new version does and up until the last min before 3.0 final is released, I will be polishing it up.
For future refrence however, if you have a problem with my map, or any other of the official levels, it helps if you can give specific feedback on what you don't like so that we can fix it instead of people just complaining about things. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> omg altair is too dark <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Theres nothing to relate with hate and complain <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
Mines new JP hitboxes improving from version to version new lerk flight system new gl model performance improves sieges not damaging players turrets going down, after the tf went down new bilebomb model new cloaking new sc rebirth
Dislike:
Chamber limit for aliens HA having a welder and pistol pgs beeing not useable by aliens the current way upgrades are limited the fact that rebirth is gone
- knockback - bunnyhopping marines - the combination of both - the recoil for marine weapons is a little low - knockback of knife (!!!) - onos pingpong ( all you need are 3 Marines with knife and a onos )
+ the Idea of this thread
going to reinstall 1.04 after work....to refresh memory
To maximise efficiency you need to bhop. Bhop is vital in competative play. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> by your logic: to maximise efficiency one must know how to aim. aiming is vital in competetive play.
bhop is a skill like any other, nothing more or less.
Things I Like/Liked: <b>Lerk Spikes</b> Lerks that actually lurked and supported the team instead of trying to rack up kills like a skulk? Yes please. <b>Old SoF</b> Not being found on the other side of the map unless you were half dead was a plus. Hey, it's <u>scent of fear</u>, my HA is not really fearing a Skulk with his HMG, an Onos who can't crawl into the vent, or a Fade who must blink / crawl all the way over to him while Weapons3 destroys him. <b>Super Onos</b> Onos are nothing but hit and run vehicles now. Fades are better at it, unless we're talking HAs and enmasse rushes to Marine Start. <b>Having a Welder and a Pistol</b> Omg yez. <b>New SCs</b> If one less person on my team whines when SCs go up, I will be happy. <b>Babblers</b> Nuff said. <b>Electricity</b> This goes in the "things I liked" department, because I don't see many commanders using it now. Turrets have blind spots and mines can be avoided. <b>Gorge Spit</b> Fear my buildy fury!
Things I Dislike/Disliked: <b>Unbreakable two-hive lockdowns</b> Spikes plz. <b>Steam</b> <b>Lerk Bite</b> I dub thee SKYSKULK! 30 res for wings? No thank you. <b>Onos Charge</b> *yawn* Only good for getting Stomp kills. <b>Steam</b> <b>People who say "Why did you write Steam twice?"</b> Wrong, suckers. It's three times. <b>Steam</b>
If you can break a two-hive lockdown with spikes, either the marines are retarded or the hive room layout unfairly favors aliens. Just because the lerk has bite doesn't mean you should be engaging groups of marines in melee. By that reasoning, skulks should take down enemy structures with leap and xenocide. Gorges should defend themselves with healspray instead of spit. Onos should use only charge or devour to kill marines and hive-three fades should just stand in the back and acid rocket everything. Just because you have a weapon available to you, doesn't make it useful for all situations. Have fun trying to knife the lerk sporing you from across the hallway.
On another note: I think we should replace cloaking with a skill that bhops for you, and replace motion tracking with auto-aim to balance out the skill levels.
Like : 1) Current (3.0<>b6) : -new cloaking (sneaky) -focus upgrade (nasty) -lerk flight (groovy) -HA stomps (creepy) -corrected hitboxes (no more shooting arbitrary parts of onos) -crack packs (weee)
3) < 1.04 : -strong umbra (teamplay ability) -hive 1 spikes (best guerrilla skill of all times) -PGs usable by aliens (that was too funny) -<b>oh nos</b> >_<
Dislike : -combat interfering with NS balance and normal learning process (less newbies , more noobs) ; no incentives for CO teamwork -sub 1.04 overpowered JPs (especially the unstompable part) -overpowered/way versatile shotgun (ruins players and structures alike , little counters) -useless hand grenade (disappointment) -tech trees too linear (less strategy) -rambo fades (the more skilled they are the less teamplay they show) and their weird blink (atmosphere breaking) -weak onos (atmosphere breaking as well , not cost effective) -RFKs (bad concept) -knife damage (too high for a last resort) -movement exploits allowed (bhop wallstrafe scripted jumps ect)
<!--QuoteBegin-Rushakra+Feb 18 2005, 07:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rushakra @ Feb 18 2005, 07:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Things I Dislike/Disliked: <b>Unbreakable two-hive lockdowns</b> Spikes plz. <b>Steam</b> <b>Lerk Bite</b> I dub thee SKYSKULK! 30 res for wings? No thank you. <b>Onos Charge</b> *yawn* Only good for getting Stomp kills. <b>Steam</b> <b>People who say "Why did you write Steam twice?"</b> Wrong, suckers. It's three times. <b>Steam</b> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you count, you wrote "Steam" 4 times. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<b>Like</b> +Marine weapons, they're costed and powered perfectly at the moment +Lerk flight +Virtually bug free +Most maps +NS generally, its a great game and never gets boring, despite some bad points
<b>Dislike</b> -CO, may be due to balancing for NS, but CO games are way too easy to win once one side gets an advantage -Limit of 10 levels in CO -Getting into bite range with a skulk, bunnyhopping should not be necessary to get close to even an average marine -Current fade, a skilled one wins far too many games which it shouldnt and requires too much res investment to counter -Bite for lerks, should be Spore->Spike->Umbra->Something (See next point) -Primal scream, really does nothing useful, at 4 hives aliens dont need any extra attacking bonuses. Maybe a paralysing parasite for lerks, which stuns for a few seconds? -Onos strength, as as been said by many others in the thread -Onos attacks, gore is the only attack which really suits the "tank" image, the others are either "hit and run" or defensive
<b><u>Likes</u>:</b> Unchained lifeforms New lerk flight model All new maps (I preferred Eclipse's 1.0 Marine Start, though) Focus Paralyze (From 1.0. It'd be better if it were beefed up.) B6's sensory chambers Offense chambers B6: No cost for alien upgrades Everything not on my dislikes list, really.
<b><u>Dislikes</u>:</b> Babblers Current Onos fragility Babblers Primal scream Electricity Hand grenades Stomp Sentry turrets in their CURRENT state (I like the CONCEPT of turrets) Bunnyhopping Tempgorging Fade blink
Lerk spikes were redundant with spores (both long range dmg) except that spores were better than spikes.
Spikes were removed for logical reasons I do believe, I mean you'd have to be obvlious to how the game works if you ever thought spikes were anything close to useful...
Spikes against HA? Only if these players ran at you with a knife... Spikes against LA? Spores not only can kill them more effectively but ALSO hit more than one...
Seriously I think people just like the novelty, other than that spikes really really were worthless, bite makes the lerk much more dangerous and deadly in today's games, back in 2.01 lerks were less played than today.
<!--QuoteBegin-NGE+Feb 18 2005, 09:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ Feb 18 2005, 09:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Lerk spikes were redundant with spores (both long range dmg) except that spores were better than spikes. Spikes were removed for logical reasons I do believe, I mean you'd have to be obvlious to how the game works if you ever thought spikes were anything close to useful... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Spikes let you damage a single marine for far less energy than spores did and were hitscan - enabling you to pester a marine from a good distance away without him being able to dodge.
Just one quick point. Spikes let you deal more direct damage to one marine much quicker than spores ever will in their current state, as well as a less obvious approach, so you will get more damage off on the marine before he is aware of being attacked, even if its only half a second of being hit. Spikes are indeed very useful, and spores are more for harassing groups of players, not targeting individual ones.
Also, spikes can be used to covertly take out hive locks, snipe at a TF, sure bile can do that, but the gorge can't run away from, or gas the marines who come to check it out.
Likes: The concept Marine weapons The maps Putting together a seige base under intense skulk attack Busting a seige base before it's complete The HA's footsteps The old Onos CO New Lerk flight
Dislikes: Stomp/devour Bunnyhopping Scripts Expert Fades (Y'know, the ones who can take apart a marine team alone and pretty much ruin the round) Steam
<b><u>Likes:</b></u><ul><li>Optical Updates - everything looks way better then back in 1.04</li><li>New GL Model, the old was boring</li><li>everything else that falls not under point b (dislike).</li></ul>
<b><u>Hates:</b></u><ul><li>R4K paid to marines (Ok for aliens, but not for Marines as it is to easy to shoot something instead of ripping it into pieces with your teeth)</li><li>The new lerkflight - No dodging, no backward flying!</li><li>puny Hum... eh, Onos. Is meant to make the 'rines wet their pants, today its twisted around: Onos wets pants in front of marines</li><li>NS_ mode decended into war over ressource towers: The Marines are on seek and destroy missions (and not building their own - R4K income to high) while the alien can sometimes not rebuild fast enough nor have enough income from r4k to support the team</li><li>Marines can tech up to easy with few rtowers / re-tech to fast after a failed assault</li><li>Lerk is designed with its health stats for support, but has melee weapon instead of a longrange supportweapon (spores don't count as they deal to low damage to keep trained players away from the gorge / this counts even more for umbra as the gorge can not hide good enough)</li><li>Gorges can not run away nor hide good enough - gorge players use stacked chambers or skulks as stairs & ladders, should be able to get into vents without this 'tricks'</li><li>Fades - i don't like that the alien game is centered around having as much as good fades as possible. I blow with fade.</li><li>Scripting - instead of your scripts we hired YOU to kill the enemy, son!</li></ul>
Scripts Expert Fades (Y'know, the ones who can take apart a marine team alone and pretty much ruin the round)
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> 1. Scripts - I loathe scripting. If you have to use bunnyhopping scripts or pistol scripts, you suck and I will flame you wherever possible.
2. Expert Fades - I actually am one of those expert fades, but I don't like how the entire game is depended on his "1337ness" for the aliens to stand a chance. If I die, the aliens start complaining and F4ing. If I live, then I'm about the only thing keeping the marines from winning. Make the Fade more of a soldier type so the lerk can become the hit and run alien.
<!--QuoteBegin-NGE+Feb 19 2005, 11:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ Feb 19 2005, 11:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Jesus christ shut up with scripting, you're just turning another thread into "OIMG SCNIRPTS = TEH CHEETYZOR LOLOZL" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No, you are. Others are just stating what they like and dislike.
Like: Enhanced Hive Sight (1.0x) (They should bring this back instead of focus, damnit!) Silent attacks with silence, cloaked aliens with sensory (2.0x)
Dislike: Focus+Cloaking+Silence Combat (as is; if was as Flayra intended (10 minute rounds, marines rushing 24/7, would be great)) ns_ayumi (Doesn't feel very jetpack friendly)
Comments
To a certain degree "yes".
But to most of it "no".
For future refrence however, if you have a problem with my map, or any other of the official levels, it helps if you can give specific feedback on what you don't like so that we can fix it instead of people just complaining about things. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
omg altair is too dark <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
- combat in general
- the fact that aliens can get all the upgrades at once and marines can't get all their upgrades... I wanna JP/hevy dang it!
Mines
new JP
hitboxes improving from version to version
new lerk flight system
new gl model
performance improves
sieges not damaging players
turrets going down, after the tf went down
new bilebomb model
new cloaking
new sc
rebirth
Dislike:
Chamber limit for aliens
HA having a welder and pistol
pgs beeing not useable by aliens
the current way upgrades are limited
the fact that rebirth is gone
- knockback
- bunnyhopping marines
- the combination of both
- the recoil for marine weapons is a little low
- knockback of knife (!!!)
- onos pingpong ( all you need are 3 Marines with knife and a onos )
+ the Idea of this thread
going to reinstall 1.04 after work....to refresh memory
btw.. is there a 2.0 version for ns for steam?
SC in beta 6
Lerk flight (i learnt to like it)
geberal lower amount of bugs
Sounds, all versions
Dislikes:
weak onos (2.0x > 3.0x)
Supior fades (2.0x > 3.0x)
Useless gorges( or just being boring)
MP_BS ;/ (unneeded imo)
more FPS than RTS
R4K (RFK)
Hitbox problems/lag, spikes!!! :[
To maximise efficiency you need to bhop. Bhop is vital in competative play.
To maximise efficiency you need to bhop. Bhop is vital in competative play. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
by your logic: to maximise efficiency one must know how to aim. aiming is vital in competetive play.
bhop is a skill like any other, nothing more or less.
<b>Lerk Spikes</b> Lerks that actually lurked and supported the team instead of trying to rack up kills like a skulk? Yes please.
<b>Old SoF</b> Not being found on the other side of the map unless you were half dead was a plus. Hey, it's <u>scent of fear</u>, my HA is not really fearing a Skulk with his HMG, an Onos who can't crawl into the vent, or a Fade who must blink / crawl all the way over to him while Weapons3 destroys him.
<b>Super Onos</b> Onos are nothing but hit and run vehicles now. Fades are better at it, unless we're talking HAs and enmasse rushes to Marine Start.
<b>Having a Welder and a Pistol</b> Omg yez.
<b>New SCs</b> If one less person on my team whines when SCs go up, I will be happy.
<b>Babblers</b> Nuff said.
<b>Electricity</b> This goes in the "things I liked" department, because I don't see many commanders using it now. Turrets have blind spots and mines can be avoided.
<b>Gorge Spit</b> Fear my buildy fury!
Things I Dislike/Disliked:
<b>Unbreakable two-hive lockdowns</b> Spikes plz.
<b>Steam</b>
<b>Lerk Bite</b> I dub thee SKYSKULK! 30 res for wings? No thank you.
<b>Onos Charge</b> *yawn* Only good for getting Stomp kills.
<b>Steam</b>
<b>People who say "Why did you write Steam twice?"</b> Wrong, suckers. It's three times.
<b>Steam</b>
On another note:
I think we should replace cloaking with a skill that bhops for you, and replace motion tracking with auto-aim to balance out the skill levels.
1) Current (3.0<>b6) :
-new cloaking (sneaky)
-focus upgrade (nasty)
-lerk flight (groovy)
-HA stomps (creepy)
-corrected hitboxes (no more shooting arbitrary parts of onos)
-crack packs (weee)
2) 2.0-2.01 :
-elec upgrade (added strategy)
-silenced attacks (more stealth)
-stomp (adds more combat tactics)
-devour (strategic attack)
-bile bomb (better gorge attack skill)
-hive 1 spores (excellent at harassing rines)
-spike throwing OCs (better at catching rines)
-new GL (made assaults more epic)
3) < 1.04 :
-strong umbra (teamplay ability)
-hive 1 spikes (best guerrilla skill of all times)
-PGs usable by aliens (that was too funny)
-<b>oh nos</b> >_<
Dislike :
-combat interfering with NS balance and normal learning process (less newbies , more noobs) ; no incentives for CO teamwork
-sub 1.04 overpowered JPs (especially the unstompable part)
-overpowered/way versatile shotgun (ruins players and structures alike , little counters)
-useless hand grenade (disappointment)
-tech trees too linear (less strategy)
-rambo fades (the more skilled they are the less teamplay they show) and their weird blink (atmosphere breaking)
-weak onos (atmosphere breaking as well , not cost effective)
-RFKs (bad concept)
-knife damage (too high for a last resort)
-movement exploits allowed (bhop wallstrafe scripted jumps ect)
<b>Unbreakable two-hive lockdowns</b> Spikes plz.
<b>Steam</b>
<b>Lerk Bite</b> I dub thee SKYSKULK! 30 res for wings? No thank you.
<b>Onos Charge</b> *yawn* Only good for getting Stomp kills.
<b>Steam</b>
<b>People who say "Why did you write Steam twice?"</b> Wrong, suckers. It's three times.
<b>Steam</b> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you count, you wrote "Steam" 4 times. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
+Marine weapons, they're costed and powered perfectly at the moment
+Lerk flight
+Virtually bug free
+Most maps
+NS generally, its a great game and never gets boring, despite some bad points
<b>Dislike</b>
-CO, may be due to balancing for NS, but CO games are way too easy to win once one side gets an advantage
-Limit of 10 levels in CO
-Getting into bite range with a skulk, bunnyhopping should not be necessary to get close to even an average marine
-Current fade, a skilled one wins far too many games which it shouldnt and requires too much res investment to counter
-Bite for lerks, should be Spore->Spike->Umbra->Something (See next point)
-Primal scream, really does nothing useful, at 4 hives aliens dont need any extra attacking bonuses. Maybe a paralysing parasite for lerks, which stuns for a few seconds?
-Onos strength, as as been said by many others in the thread
-Onos attacks, gore is the only attack which really suits the "tank" image, the others are either "hit and run" or defensive
Unchained lifeforms
New lerk flight model
All new maps (I preferred Eclipse's 1.0 Marine Start, though)
Focus
Paralyze (From 1.0. It'd be better if it were beefed up.)
B6's sensory chambers
Offense chambers
B6: No cost for alien upgrades
Everything not on my dislikes list, really.
<b><u>Dislikes</u>:</b>
Babblers
Current Onos fragility
Babblers
Primal scream
Electricity
Hand grenades
Stomp
Sentry turrets in their CURRENT state (I like the CONCEPT of turrets)
Bunnyhopping
Tempgorging
Fade blink
Spikes were removed for logical reasons I do believe, I mean you'd have to be obvlious to how the game works if you ever thought spikes were anything close to useful...
Spikes against HA? Only if these players ran at you with a knife...
Spikes against LA? Spores not only can kill them more effectively but ALSO hit more than one...
Seriously I think people just like the novelty, other than that spikes really really were worthless, bite makes the lerk much more dangerous and deadly in today's games, back in 2.01 lerks were less played than today.
Spikes were removed for logical reasons I do believe, I mean you'd have to be obvlious to how the game works if you ever thought spikes were anything close to useful... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Spikes let you damage a single marine for far less energy than spores did and were hitscan - enabling you to pester a marine from a good distance away without him being able to dodge.
The concept
Marine weapons
The maps
Putting together a seige base under intense skulk attack
Busting a seige base before it's complete
The HA's footsteps
The old Onos
CO
New Lerk flight
Dislikes:
Stomp/devour
Bunnyhopping
Scripts
Expert Fades (Y'know, the ones who can take apart a marine team alone and pretty much ruin the round)
Steam
<b><u>Hates:</b></u><ul><li>R4K paid to marines (Ok for aliens, but not for Marines as it is to easy to shoot something instead of ripping it into pieces with your teeth)</li><li>The new lerkflight - No dodging, no backward flying!</li><li>puny Hum... eh, Onos. Is meant to make the 'rines wet their pants, today its twisted around: Onos wets pants in front of marines</li><li>NS_ mode decended into war over ressource towers: The Marines are on seek and destroy missions (and not building their own - R4K income to high) while the alien can sometimes not rebuild fast enough nor have enough income from r4k to support the team</li><li>Marines can tech up to easy with few rtowers / re-tech to fast after a failed assault</li><li>Lerk is designed with its health stats for support, but has melee weapon instead of a longrange supportweapon (spores don't count as they deal to low damage to keep trained players away from the gorge / this counts even more for umbra as the gorge can not hide good enough)</li><li>Gorges can not run away nor hide good enough - gorge players use stacked chambers or skulks as stairs & ladders, should be able to get into vents without this 'tricks'</li><li>Fades - i don't like that the alien game is centered around having as much as good fades as possible. I blow with fade.</li><li>Scripting - instead of your scripts we hired YOU to kill the enemy, son!</li></ul>
Scripts
Expert Fades (Y'know, the ones who can take apart a marine team alone and pretty much ruin the round)
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Scripts - I loathe scripting. If you have to use bunnyhopping scripts or pistol scripts, you suck and I will flame you wherever possible.
2. Expert Fades - I actually am one of those expert fades, but I don't like how the entire game is depended on his "1337ness" for the aliens to stand a chance. If I die, the aliens start complaining and F4ing. If I live, then I'm about the only thing keeping the marines from winning. Make the Fade more of a soldier type so the lerk can become the hit and run alien.
No, you are. Others are just stating what they like and dislike.
Enhanced Hive Sight (1.0x) (They should bring this back instead of focus, damnit!)
Silent attacks with silence, cloaked aliens with sensory (2.0x)
Dislike:
Focus+Cloaking+Silence
Combat (as is; if was as Flayra intended (10 minute rounds, marines rushing 24/7, would be great))
ns_ayumi (Doesn't feel very jetpack friendly)