<!--QuoteBegin-TychoCelchuuu+Feb 19 2005, 08:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TychoCelchuuu @ Feb 19 2005, 08:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you don't already <i>have</i> Brood War and The Frozen Throne, it's quite possible that you're not the kind of person that would play Starcraft <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Or you know, maybe I'm not the kind of person who would play Warcraft 3 with it's dumbed down small armies around a few hero units?
Quite frankly, at the beginning I thought the hero idea was quite good at the time....but now, it's all just "OMG I GOT TEH WRONG HERO I LOSE! F10 F10!!"
I hate the Hero reliant system...it's just too....linear <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But of course, we don't see Starcraft having those right? The Project Revolution team will make the gameplay just like as it was in Starcraft. Sure you might have Hero icons....but they aren't exactly Heroes now are they?
Besides, I bet that they're irreplacable, or untrainable in MP, which should be rather good <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
How they're gonna get BNet support? I have NO idea. They could try alternatives but meh, who knows.
<!--QuoteBegin-RaVe+Feb 19 2005, 10:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RaVe @ Feb 19 2005, 10:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Quite frankly, at the beginning I thought the hero idea was quite good at the time....but now, it's all just "OMG I GOT TEH WRONG HERO I LOSE! F10 F10!!"
I hate the Hero reliant system...it's just too....linear <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But of course, we don't see Starcraft having those right? The Project Revolution team will make the gameplay just like as it was in Starcraft. Sure you might have Hero icons....but they aren't exactly Heroes now are they?
Besides, I bet that they're irreplacable, or untrainable in MP, which should be rather good <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
How they're gonna get BNet support? I have NO idea. They could try alternatives but meh, who knows. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It would be kinda cool if they had heros, but like, generic ones, like unit commanders or something, y'know? 5 per side, slightly boosted stats and more HP then the regular ones.
Well, yeah. The Zerg had a beast of an Ultralisk back then....I forgot the name, but it sure was a beast....pretty hard to take down even with 5 siege tanks.
Unfortunately, that'll screw over the balance in multiplayer, if you get what I mean.
Frankly, they're just porting Starcraft to Warcraft 3. Psuedo-Starcraft 2 if you may.
And frankly, I will like it that way for some reason. Maybe it's just the customizable resolutions you can run it on. Starcraft has an evil, hardcoded resolution of 640x480 <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Artanis+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Artanis)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is not Warcraft in space! It's much more sophisticated! I KNOW it's not 3D! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Eat it.
And in WC3 Regular team vs team games suck so badly. OMG I GOT LICH INSTEAD OF THE DEATH KNIGHT! *Quits* . OMG THERE GOESZERZ MY STATERZ *quits*. OMG you guyz suck y dunt u give me al ur gold and woodz so I can towerz like crazy near 1 of there're bazes.
<!--QuoteBegin-Rushakra+Feb 19 2005, 08:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rushakra @ Feb 19 2005, 08:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> *cough WH40k:DawnofWar cough* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Definetly a great game - I keep demolishing my friends at it - but when it comes to atmosphere and art direction, Star Craft single-handedly upends W40k. Just compare Eldar and Protoss. And yes, I'm aware that the Space Marines were a heavy source of inspiration for the terran infantry. So what? Sometimes, the rip-off is actually better than the original.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Feb 19 2005, 04:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Feb 19 2005, 04:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Rushakra+Feb 19 2005, 08:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rushakra @ Feb 19 2005, 08:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> *cough WH40k:DawnofWar cough* <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Definetly a great game - I keep demolishing my friends at it - but when it comes to atmosphere and art direction, Star Craft single-handedly upends W40k. Just compare Eldar and Protoss. And yes, I'm aware that the Space Marines were a heavy source of inspiration for the terran infantry. So what? Sometimes, the rip-off is actually better than the original. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Starcraft does indeed pwn the pants off of WH:40k, for one reason. A Terran marine is so kickass compared to a stupid Space Marine and their false emperor.
Dawn of War would be great if they actually covered half the units the armies have.
They don't, so I'm sticking with SC. Just about to install my new WC3 and TFT... I hope its not as hero reliant as you folks make out... just makes it rather dull..
If you have a melee army for the Undead, you NEED the Death Knight (extra speed boost to units around him and acts as a healer as well) And you also need a Lich to slow down the opponent's heroes (Frost Nove + Death Coil == doom) And you need a Dreadlord to add blood-sucking (ok hp leeching =\) to your melee units.
But only a fool would go full melee with Undead anyway.
The only thing I hate are games on BNet where a player quits when their heroes die....because far too many strategies rely on heroes and whatnot.
Granted, it is possible to make a counter-hero army.....but you need heroes too in that army.
Basically, you rely on the hero to do all the killing the big kahunas. <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-RaVe+Feb 20 2005, 02:11 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RaVe @ Feb 20 2005, 02:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well, let's put it this way Necrosis....
If you have a melee army for the Undead, you NEED the Death Knight (extra speed boost to units around him and acts as a healer as well) And you also need a Lich to slow down the opponent's heroes (Frost Nove + Death Coil == doom) And you need a Dreadlord to add blood-sucking (ok hp leeching =\) to your melee units.
But only a fool would go full melee with Undead anyway.
The only thing I hate are games on BNet where a player quits when their heroes die....because far too many strategies rely on heroes and whatnot.
Granted, it is possible to make a counter-hero army.....but you need heroes too in that army.
Basically, you rely on the hero to do all the killing the big kahunas. <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> OMG come on. Just because you can't micro, doesn't mean you have to take it out on the game... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
So you need certain hero's for certain situations. If you micromanage your battles and have good tactical sense you will be fine.
I've seen plenty of good players have only one hero, of their own preference, because they end the game on their terms.
Eh? What do you mean by that Cold Nite? I can micro and macro just fine.
In fact my friends ph34r meh!
In all seriousness, yes I can scare my friends back into their bases because I was their best player.....until we all got bored of WC and stopped playing.
But still, they're afraid of me beating them into the ground in Warcraft 3, or Starcraft for that matter <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The only people I can't beat are those semi-top-tier people in BNet. I'm like...mid-tier <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Yeah, this mod looks awesome. I heard about it quite some time ago, but then I forgot about it. I stumbled across it again a couple of months ago. It can't come soon enough.
<!--QuoteBegin-Necrosis+Feb 20 2005, 02:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Feb 20 2005, 02:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Dawn of War would be great if they actually covered half the units the armies have. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Which would increase developement time, balance would be harder to achieve, and given the fact that DoW isn't an exact replica of the table top, some units would be excess to requirements.
The Eldar army has been castrated. Not streamlined, castrated. Personally I'd have went for a more overt Craftworld Army than actually try to pretend to put in all the Aspects.
But then, I have a bit of wit.
On the WC3 note....... just played a few battles, its like the worst parts of 2nd Ed 40k meet 2-3rd Ed Fantasy. Its just "surround hero with cheap damage soaks, charge towards enemy". Bloody hell.
<!--QuoteBegin-Necrosis+Feb 21 2005, 12:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Feb 21 2005, 12:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> On the WC3 note....... just played a few battles, its like the worst parts of 2nd Ed 40k meet 2-3rd Ed Fantasy. Its just "surround hero with cheap damage soaks, charge towards enemy". Bloody hell. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Whoa whoa whoa, hold the phone. Are you playing.. WC3 Melee? Who plays WC3 melee anymore? Hrmm? Everyone knows that all the fun is in WC3 Custom. Yea... that's where it's at. And on that note, w00t. StarCraft! I can return to my kekekeke ^__________^ ways! Bwahahaha!
<!--QuoteBegin-Zero7+Feb 20 2005, 08:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zero7 @ Feb 20 2005, 08:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Necrosis+Feb 21 2005, 12:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Feb 21 2005, 12:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> On the WC3 note....... just played a few battles, its like the worst parts of 2nd Ed 40k meet 2-3rd Ed Fantasy. Its just "surround hero with cheap damage soaks, charge towards enemy". Bloody hell. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Whoa whoa whoa, hold the phone. Are you playing.. WC3 Melee? Who plays WC3 melee anymore? Hrmm? Everyone knows that all the fun is in WC3 Custom. Yea... that's where it's at. And on that note, w00t. StarCraft! I can return to my kekekeke ^__________^ ways! Bwahahaha!
(Also, Sup? *Goes back to lurking the forums*) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What? Zero7 on the NS forums? UMPOSSIBLE!
Heh... I just realized I don't really care if I get it or not, because I just loaded up SC for the first time in a while and I didn't even realize my base was being destroyed... Now you know why I don't comm in NS.
<!--QuoteBegin-Pulse+Feb 24 2005, 10:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pulse @ Feb 24 2005, 10:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I believe I speak for all of the sane people in the world when I say "What's the point?" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Could have been put more eloquently, but pretty much true. Straight and to the point. IIRC, the mod requires WC3+FT and SC+BR. That's about four games, and if you have Starcraft and Brood War, there really isn't much reason to play the War3 game.
Actually, I just want it because it's Starcraft taking advantage of new technology while keeping the gameplay the same. We don't see SC2 coming out soon....so why not play this while we are waiting? (Waiting for VERY long I might say....)
<!--QuoteBegin-RaVe+Feb 24 2005, 06:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RaVe @ Feb 24 2005, 06:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Because SC:Ghost makes baby Onos cry.
Actually, I just want it because it's Starcraft taking advantage of new technology while keeping the gameplay the same. We don't see SC2 coming out soon....so why not play this while we are waiting? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> i agree, and than with warcraft 3's advanced triggers we can prepare for some excellant maps from the past upgraded two fold
Comments
Or you know, maybe I'm not the kind of person who would play Warcraft 3 with it's dumbed down small armies around a few hero units?
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
(not that I'm worried as I do own WC3/TFT, and I tried oh so hard to like them but I just couldn't stand the stupid hero reliant system).
I hate the Hero reliant system...it's just too....linear <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But of course, we don't see Starcraft having those right? The Project Revolution team will make the gameplay just like as it was in Starcraft. Sure you might have Hero icons....but they aren't exactly Heroes now are they?
Besides, I bet that they're irreplacable, or untrainable in MP, which should be rather good <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
How they're gonna get BNet support? I have NO idea. They could try alternatives but meh, who knows.
I hate the Hero reliant system...it's just too....linear <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But of course, we don't see Starcraft having those right? The Project Revolution team will make the gameplay just like as it was in Starcraft. Sure you might have Hero icons....but they aren't exactly Heroes now are they?
Besides, I bet that they're irreplacable, or untrainable in MP, which should be rather good <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
How they're gonna get BNet support? I have NO idea. They could try alternatives but meh, who knows. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It would be kinda cool if they had heros, but like, generic ones, like unit commanders or something, y'know? 5 per side, slightly boosted stats and more HP then the regular ones.
Well, yeah. The Zerg had a beast of an Ultralisk back then....I forgot the name, but it sure was a beast....pretty hard to take down even with 5 siege tanks.
Unfortunately, that'll screw over the balance in multiplayer, if you get what I mean.
Frankly, they're just porting Starcraft to Warcraft 3. Psuedo-Starcraft 2 if you may.
And frankly, I will like it that way for some reason. Maybe it's just the customizable resolutions you can run it on. Starcraft has an evil, hardcoded resolution of 640x480 <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
It's much more sophisticated!
I KNOW it's not 3D! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eat it.
These are all actual quotes from ingame.
Definetly a great game - I keep demolishing my friends at it - but when it comes to atmosphere and art direction, Star Craft single-handedly upends W40k. Just compare Eldar and Protoss. And yes, I'm aware that the Space Marines were a heavy source of inspiration for the terran infantry. So what? Sometimes, the rip-off is actually better than the original.
Definetly a great game - I keep demolishing my friends at it - but when it comes to atmosphere and art direction, Star Craft single-handedly upends W40k. Just compare Eldar and Protoss. And yes, I'm aware that the Space Marines were a heavy source of inspiration for the terran infantry. So what? Sometimes, the rip-off is actually better than the original. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Starcraft does indeed pwn the pants off of WH:40k, for one reason. A Terran marine is so kickass compared to a stupid Space Marine and their false emperor.
They don't, so I'm sticking with SC. Just about to install my new WC3 and TFT... I hope its not as hero reliant as you folks make out... just makes it rather dull..
If you have a melee army for the Undead, you NEED the Death Knight (extra speed boost to units around him and acts as a healer as well)
And you also need a Lich to slow down the opponent's heroes (Frost Nove + Death Coil == doom)
And you need a Dreadlord to add blood-sucking (ok hp leeching =\) to your melee units.
But only a fool would go full melee with Undead anyway.
The only thing I hate are games on BNet where a player quits when their heroes die....because far too many strategies rely on heroes and whatnot.
Granted, it is possible to make a counter-hero army.....but you need heroes too in that army.
Basically, you rely on the hero to do all the killing the big kahunas. <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If you have a melee army for the Undead, you NEED the Death Knight (extra speed boost to units around him and acts as a healer as well)
And you also need a Lich to slow down the opponent's heroes (Frost Nove + Death Coil == doom)
And you need a Dreadlord to add blood-sucking (ok hp leeching =\) to your melee units.
But only a fool would go full melee with Undead anyway.
The only thing I hate are games on BNet where a player quits when their heroes die....because far too many strategies rely on heroes and whatnot.
Granted, it is possible to make a counter-hero army.....but you need heroes too in that army.
Basically, you rely on the hero to do all the killing the big kahunas. <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OMG come on. Just because you can't micro, doesn't mean you have to take it out on the game... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
So you need certain hero's for certain situations. If you micromanage your battles and have good tactical sense you will be fine.
I've seen plenty of good players have only one hero, of their own preference, because they end the game on their terms.
I'm downloading this ASAP.
In fact my friends ph34r meh!
In all seriousness, yes I can scare my friends back into their bases because I was their best player.....until we all got bored of WC and stopped playing.
But still, they're afraid of me beating them into the ground in Warcraft 3, or Starcraft for that matter <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The only people I can't beat are those semi-top-tier people in BNet. I'm like...mid-tier <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Which would increase developement time, balance would be harder to achieve, and given the fact that DoW isn't an exact replica of the table top, some units would be excess to requirements.
But then, I have a bit of wit.
On the WC3 note....... just played a few battles, its like the worst parts of 2nd Ed 40k meet 2-3rd Ed Fantasy. Its just "surround hero with cheap damage soaks, charge towards enemy". Bloody hell.
Whoa whoa whoa, hold the phone. Are you playing.. WC3 Melee? Who plays WC3 melee anymore? Hrmm? Everyone knows that all the fun is in WC3 Custom. Yea... that's where it's at. And on that note, w00t. StarCraft! I can return to my kekekeke ^__________^ ways! Bwahahaha!
(Also, Sup? *Goes back to lurking the forums*)
Whoa whoa whoa, hold the phone. Are you playing.. WC3 Melee? Who plays WC3 melee anymore? Hrmm? Everyone knows that all the fun is in WC3 Custom. Yea... that's where it's at. And on that note, w00t. StarCraft! I can return to my kekekeke ^__________^ ways! Bwahahaha!
(Also, Sup? *Goes back to lurking the forums*) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What? Zero7 on the NS forums? UMPOSSIBLE!
It is looking very good, I'm gonna have to Modwatch it on ModDB.
Goodbye, life.™ <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
quoted for emphasis.
Could have been put more eloquently, but pretty much true. Straight and to the point. IIRC, the mod requires WC3+FT and SC+BR. That's about four games, and if you have Starcraft and Brood War, there really isn't much reason to play the War3 game.
Actually, I just want it because it's Starcraft taking advantage of new technology while keeping the gameplay the same. We don't see SC2 coming out soon....so why not play this while we are waiting? (Waiting for VERY long I might say....)
Actually, I just want it because it's Starcraft taking advantage of new technology while keeping the gameplay the same. We don't see SC2 coming out soon....so why not play this while we are waiting? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i agree, and than with warcraft 3's advanced triggers we can prepare for some excellant maps from the past upgraded two fold