douchebagatronCustom member titleJoin Date: 2003-12-20Member: 24581Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
alright i have a suggestion, and i hope you all will hear me out.
ns does not need blood or gore at all, its fine without it now. i dont really want blood all over the walls. i do like how the alien blood is ont he walls though. i believe that should stay, along with entry and exit wounds on aliens.
for marines:
my main reasoning behind this is so aliens can tell when they have hit a marine. when a marine gets hit in any way that deals damage, let a tiny bit of blood squirt out. make it optional with parental controls and whatnot. because seriously, if a parent is going to let their kid play a game where they shoot guns and bite marines in half, why wouldnt they mind a little bit of blood. this blood wouldnt splatter on the walls or anything, it would just kinda squirt up a little to show they have been hit.
also for marines, there should be specialized wound marks, not of blood but like burn marks or scars on the armor. there should be a mark for bites, swipes, gores, projectiles. and possible an burn for spores. i believe that covers pretty much all damage types aliens have.
<!--QuoteBegin-Haze+Feb 26 2005, 02:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Haze @ Feb 26 2005, 02:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->edit:: Its also why ragdolls could never actually block your movement down a hallway, they are different for every player because of how complex all the calculations are. You could put a person in the same instance, getting hit by the same amount of force in the same area, and he probably would end up in two different positions on two different PCs.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is I never understood. Yes the ragdoll calculations might be complex, but that isn't a reason for them to have different outcomes each time? Unless Havok purposfully has some 'randomness' calculated into the equation. As soon as a player dies, the server could send his exact position when he died, and let the client calculate how and where he would land, and this should be consistent among the players.
I highly doubt I'll be playing NS:S if it loses bhop and wallstrafing and all the other physics quirks that make the game fun. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way. I'd like a Source port to be a graphics update and maybe some bug fixes... not a huge revamp of the physics system.
The thing I like about HL and it's mods is the feel. It may not exactly be totally realistic but I love having the ability to control myself in the air, and having a skill-based technique to make you move faster... even if it's unintentional it fits in amazingly well.
Please, Nem0, trust me. You'll lose lots of players who love the feel of the engine if you take out bhop, wallstrafe, air control...
<!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Feb 25 2005, 04:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Feb 25 2005, 04:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As for bhopping, we said it before, we'll say it again, it won't survive the port to another engine. Neither will wallstrafing and all the rest. There are better, intrinsic ways of getting balance and skill into the game - we'll go that way. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> For the record, we haven't made an official decision on this yet (not to my knowledge at least!).
<!--QuoteBegin-Flayra+Feb 25 2005, 08:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra @ Feb 25 2005, 08:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Feb 25 2005, 04:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Feb 25 2005, 04:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As for bhopping, we said it before, we'll say it again, it won't survive the port to another engine. Neither will wallstrafing and all the rest. There are better, intrinsic ways of getting balance and skill into the game - we'll go that way. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> For the record, we haven't made an official decision on this yet (not to my knowledge at least!). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <3 HL1 gameplay physics (bhop, air control, etc), HL2 eyecandy physics (ragdoll, etc) is the way to go <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Steel Monkey+Feb 25 2005, 07:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Steel Monkey @ Feb 25 2005, 07:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No wallstrafing or bhopping? Ouch. What will replace bhopping for the speed needed for skulkies? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, my guess would be just raising the speed of the skulk, so it moves faster all the time regardless of fancy movements <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Bhopping... Wall strafing... Sure as hell can't do that in RTS. Probably why they're usually so well ballanced; all the units move at the speeds they're designed to. The only thing that can "enhance" their speed is something else that was designed and put into the game, like the "Haste" spell in D&D or a "Run" movement type. If a skulk moves down a hallway without wall strafing/bhopping and makes it to the hive in exactly 30 seconds, then someone comes along and exploits the wall strafing/bhopping, and makes it in 15-25, then i would consider that a severe imballance. Simply because the player was never meant to move at that speed...
That and the MC would get a boost from no bhop/wall strafe. Think of all the people wanted better speed but needing the MC's Celerity to do so. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
[and to be ON-TOPIC for this post, it just dawned on me that gibs (arms and legs) just arn't possible... If something is powerful enough to destroy the torso, in a instant why would the arms, legs, and head of the person survive? <i>They can't.</i> Thus, no gibs IRL. (sure, maybe the odd finger/toe but common... does that <i>really</i> need to be modeled?)]
<!--QuoteBegin-Nadagast+Feb 25 2005, 08:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nadagast @ Feb 25 2005, 08:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Flayra+Feb 25 2005, 08:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra @ Feb 25 2005, 08:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Feb 25 2005, 04:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Feb 25 2005, 04:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As for bhopping, we said it before, we'll say it again, it won't survive the port to another engine. Neither will wallstrafing and all the rest. There are better, intrinsic ways of getting balance and skill into the game - we'll go that way. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> For the record, we haven't made an official decision on this yet (not to my knowledge at least!). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <3 HL1 gameplay physics (bhop, air control, etc), HL2 eyecandy physics (ragdoll, etc) is the way to go <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree.
The best part about HL1 mods is the physics. That's why I'm still playing them, instead of mods on other engines.
The weapon doesnt need to vaporize the human. It only needs to break apart the body. The heads arms etc, they can survive. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Travis Dane+Feb 25 2005, 08:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Travis Dane @ Feb 25 2005, 08:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Haze+Feb 26 2005, 02:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Haze @ Feb 26 2005, 02:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->edit:: Its also why ragdolls could never actually block your movement down a hallway, they are different for every player because of how complex all the calculations are. You could put a person in the same instance, getting hit by the same amount of force in the same area, and he probably would end up in two different positions on two different PCs.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is I never understood. Yes the ragdoll calculations might be complex, but that isn't a reason for them to have different outcomes each time? Unless Havok purposfully has some 'randomness' calculated into the equation. As soon as a player dies, the server could send his exact position when he died, and let the client calculate how and where he would land, and this should be consistent among the players. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Its just too much for one server to process all the ragdolls. Its also client based hit detection or something similer, you might not even hit where you appeared to hit, hence the HL shotty at the moment isnt actually random at all. The random hits generated client side would influence the ragdolls. Since it is <i>random</i>, then each ragdoll would be different.
Most of the ragdolls should be client-side to reduce bandwidth. The Onos ragdoll should be done server-side, as they are visually too large to be optional decoration. If a digesting marine outlives the Onos, I guess it could play a dismount animation (he climbs out of the Onos mouth), similar to how players leave the dunebuggy and airboat vehicles.
I suspect the most we'll see, gore-wise, is material hit effects and various types of decals on players, props, and the level geometry. Seeing a HA with fade-sized slash marks on him, an Onos with grenade-sized scorch marks, or a Hive full of bullet holes does have some actual gameplay value. A parasite, for example, could leave a visually distinct stain, so marines can spot parasited buildings or teammates.
When a digested marine dies, I'd prefer a marine's armor and weapon be puked out the Onos's mouth. The idea is that the Onos completely digested the non-nanite material and had to puke up the nanite material. Having it come out the rear might be a bit nasty. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I think Xenocide should produce a skulk ragdoll that's broken in half, similar to a Half-Life 2 zombie. This would give an indication that the skulk succesfully Xenocided, and it wouldn't be that hard to model. I'm not suggesting blood and body parts should be sprayed all over the room or anything like that.
I'm not exactly sure what the plans are for marine buildings. They could easily be made into physics props that gib when destroyed. I think it would be interesting if an Onos could knock around some of the smaller marine buildings a little. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
It would be super cool for Onos to knock over turrets (they don't have to stop shooting, however). It would actually give him some value (especially to stop 2-hive lockdowns).
Ragdolls will look supercool, especially on the lerk/fade.
Some more realistic building animations (especially placement) will be awesome.
<!--QuoteBegin-DarkFrost+Feb 25 2005, 10:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkFrost @ Feb 25 2005, 10:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> but but but... its possible to bunnyhop in hl2 and hl2dm D: <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hell, you don't evn need to do a real bunnyhop to build up some speed. Just jumping repeatedly in a straight line works for me. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
i would not support ragdolls. I would'nt want them, and because they would infleuence gameplay, ex. Onos sending a rine flying would tip some people off, instead of just a body lieing where it died, u cant really have them as an option
blood and gore? we dont really need open gore. Its all about the enviorment. Major places should have some **** on the wall. More wettish, but not actually water infested areas. Rine start would be relativly clean of blood, but around it....needs some blood. Unless of course, story line behind map doesnt support it.
I would say B-hoping would be still ok for skulks in a realistic way. Marines? doubtfully. wall strafe needs to be taken out. HL2 doesnt allow it normally anyways. A larger lifeform wouldnt support b-hoping. ex. marines, fades, onos. Gorge would probly still be able to b-hop, but with no advantage. Landing delay would be miniscule, but it would end up being the same if u just went forward. Wieght needs to be accounted.
also, something realistic? onos devour. onos needs to more sluggish after devouring someone, and when he shits him out? going to be hard to incorperate. The Devouring act would be hard too.
I like HL1 physics. CS:S is like CS:Drunkmode. Tripping over buckets and random bs.
Even in NS:S, skulks or the equivalent should be able to pull all kinds of crazy tricks without "realistic" phsyics having to butt in. And I want to loop the loop as a lerk and stuff. And be able to walljump as a fade or something.
How are onos going to climb HL2 ladders? Will there be jumping puzzles in NS in Onos-mode to get out of the hive?? :o Maybe you can push various crates and boxes around with your horn to make a stepladder or ramp. Somehow I see Onos being rrrrrreeeeeeaaally mean in NS:S. If I ever designed a map for NS:S, one of my hives would have a really big shipping crate next to a doorway, that an onos could slowly shove and push and knock into place to cover the door. I think onos might be the other half of the building team along with gorges. The heavy movers. You know, when they aren't angry, onos are actually like cows.
If that actually happens: <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Perhaps 2 HA or 4LA can combine strenght to push the same amount of weight an Onos can? And make it so lerks can lift semi-small things and divebomb people with them. And if you push a bigbox off a ledge it kills any players/structures under it.
I think only skulks should get BHop if it is programed in. After all, one of the skulks greatest assets is manuravibiltiy (spelling sucks...) and speed. Perhaps just make it so it doesn't require scripts or the horrendous mousewheel(how does anyone do this <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->) to do it.
I quite like the state of natural selection, its just the clan scene which blows. I believe that ns:s will lose the fast pace action of the game we have come to love. Not to mention, i bet all clanners/competive people will disable: gore, ragdoll and all those eye candy's for a better fps. Not to mention, i'll have to upgrade. I get 80fps in hl1 as it is.
<!--QuoteBegin-Drop teh mc+Feb 26 2005, 04:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Drop teh mc @ Feb 26 2005, 04:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i thought ns is rated MATURE(17+) by esrb now, just as half-life and cs do <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Technically it is, but you don't have to be a genius to see that NS is a little less violent and a little more cartoony/child friendly then its manslaugtering rambo around counterparts.
I actually hoped HL:Source would be the HL1 movement code, combined with graphics and ragdolls from HL2. That would've been absolutely sound. Hence my disappointment when HL:Source felt like walking on ice instead of the rock-solid linear HL movement.
Agreed on the fact HL2 movement will take a lot of flair away from current HL mods.
<!--QuoteBegin-Travis Dane+Feb 26 2005, 08:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Travis Dane @ Feb 26 2005, 08:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I actually hoped HL:Source would be the HL1 movement code, combined with graphics and ragdolls from HL2. That would've been absolutely sound. Hence my disappointment when HL:Source felt like walking on ice instead of the rock-solid linear HL movement.
Agreed on the fact HL2 movement will take a lot of flair away from current HL mods. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> HL movement code was terrible... There were so many glitches...
Sure the glitches allowed for some fun little things, like bunnyhopping... but realisticly, bunny hopping is an absolutly rediculous concept to add intentionally.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Feb 26 2005, 03:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Feb 26 2005, 03:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Travis Dane+Feb 26 2005, 08:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Travis Dane @ Feb 26 2005, 08:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I actually hoped HL:Source would be the HL1 movement code, combined with graphics and ragdolls from HL2. That would've been absolutely sound. Hence my disappointment when HL:Source felt like walking on ice instead of the rock-solid linear HL movement.
Agreed on the fact HL2 movement will take a lot of flair away from current HL mods. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> HL movement code was terrible... There were so many glitches...
Sure the glitches allowed for some fun little things, like bunnyhopping... but realisticly, bunny hopping is an absolutly rediculous concept to add intentionally.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh, don't go realisticly on me! Are aliens realistic? Medpacks spawning from mid-air? I prefer enjoyable over realistic any day thank you very much.
- The whole gore issue does <i>not</i> centered around the ratings. In terms of mods, they are pretty much inconsequential, anyway. It's a design decision.
- Movement qirks: Nobody said that the aliens should be reduced to walking single-file at a measured pace. Hell, there's stuff like wall walking in this very version of NS. The question is really that of 'quirky' movement types, or screwy movement.
hopfully we will get skulks being able to jump off the walls in source <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
maybe even the return of the view flipping when on the roof?
<!--QuoteBegin-male fatalities+Feb 26 2005, 06:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (male fatalities @ Feb 26 2005, 06:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm actually not looking that foward to ns:s.
I quite like the state of natural selection, its just the clan scene which blows. I believe that ns:s will lose the fast pace action of the game we have come to love. Not to mention, i bet all clanners/competive people will disable: gore, ragdoll and all those eye candy's for a better fps. Not to mention, i'll have to upgrade. I get 80fps in hl1 as it is. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If someone disables the ragdolls or cool effects, <i>let them.</i> If they are going to do it then then they are doing it now. Dont worry about it.
And with the release of NS:S, I dont understand the mentality about it. You all assume that NS for HL1 is going to be gone when it releases, like *poof* woops, time to play source. Its not going to be one massive movement, I'm sure there will be a nice sized chunk that break off to play both games. Soon, the players will start to trickle into NS:S as the computers upgrade more. Sure, regular NS wont be as populated ever again, but it wont be dead in another good five years, either.
<!--QuoteBegin-Reeke+Feb 26 2005, 03:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Reeke @ Feb 26 2005, 03:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> maybe even the return of the view flipping when on the roof? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Return? that was never in any public version, out of respect towards people with weak stomaches.
<!--QuoteBegin-Haze+Feb 25 2005, 05:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Haze @ Feb 25 2005, 05:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Was about to say that.
I'm not pushing for tons of gore. I'm not asking for anything of that type. I'm asking for when a corpse flies up against a wall, it at least makes a little blood spat. Heaven forbid a player thats seen alien green blood sees it in a different shade. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You'll probably find this funny, but many games show human blood as Green or Yellow simply to get around the ESRB system.(many times, red blood = instant M rating, you can find a whole trough of games with that as the only reason for an M rating, and many that the only reason they are T instead of M is the blood color.)
Sorry, random comment more or less here. And from 2 pages back even.
Sidenote(as NS and in theory NS:S are both mods, this would not matter for them, although it may be applicable to NS2.)
Comments
ns does not need blood or gore at all, its fine without it now. i dont really want blood all over the walls. i do like how the alien blood is ont he walls though. i believe that should stay, along with entry and exit wounds on aliens.
for marines:
my main reasoning behind this is so aliens can tell when they have hit a marine. when a marine gets hit in any way that deals damage, let a tiny bit of blood squirt out. make it optional with parental controls and whatnot. because seriously, if a parent is going to let their kid play a game where they shoot guns and bite marines in half, why wouldnt they mind a little bit of blood. this blood wouldnt splatter on the walls or anything, it would just kinda squirt up a little to show they have been hit.
also for marines, there should be specialized wound marks, not of blood but like burn marks or scars on the armor. there should be a mark for bites, swipes, gores, projectiles. and possible an burn for spores. i believe that covers pretty much all damage types aliens have.
This is I never understood. Yes the ragdoll calculations might be complex, but that isn't a reason for them to have different outcomes each time? Unless Havok purposfully has some 'randomness' calculated into the equation. As soon as a player dies, the server could send his exact position when he died, and let the client calculate how and where he would land, and this should be consistent among the players.
The thing I like about HL and it's mods is the feel. It may not exactly be totally realistic but I love having the ability to control myself in the air, and having a skill-based technique to make you move faster... even if it's unintentional it fits in amazingly well.
Please, Nem0, trust me. You'll lose lots of players who love the feel of the engine if you take out bhop, wallstrafe, air control...
For the record, we haven't made an official decision on this yet (not to my knowledge at least!).
For the record, we haven't made an official decision on this yet (not to my knowledge at least!). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<3 HL1 gameplay physics (bhop, air control, etc), HL2 eyecandy physics (ragdoll, etc) is the way to go <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Well, my guess would be just raising the speed of the skulk, so it moves faster all the time regardless of fancy movements <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Sure as hell can't do that in RTS. Probably why they're usually so well ballanced; all the units move at the speeds they're designed to. The only thing that can "enhance" their speed is something else that was designed and put into the game, like the "Haste" spell in D&D or a "Run" movement type. If a skulk moves down a hallway without wall strafing/bhopping and makes it to the hive in exactly 30 seconds, then someone comes along and exploits the wall strafing/bhopping, and makes it in 15-25, then i would consider that a severe imballance. Simply because the player was never meant to move at that speed...
That and the MC would get a boost from no bhop/wall strafe. Think of all the people wanted better speed but needing the MC's Celerity to do so. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
[and to be ON-TOPIC for this post, it just dawned on me that gibs (arms and legs) just arn't possible... If something is powerful enough to destroy the torso, in a instant why would the arms, legs, and head of the person survive? <i>They can't.</i> Thus, no gibs IRL. (sure, maybe the odd finger/toe but common... does that <i>really</i> need to be modeled?)]
For the record, we haven't made an official decision on this yet (not to my knowledge at least!). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<3 HL1 gameplay physics (bhop, air control, etc), HL2 eyecandy physics (ragdoll, etc) is the way to go <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree.
The best part about HL1 mods is the physics. That's why I'm still playing them, instead of mods on other engines.
This is I never understood. Yes the ragdoll calculations might be complex, but that isn't a reason for them to have different outcomes each time? Unless Havok purposfully has some 'randomness' calculated into the equation. As soon as a player dies, the server could send his exact position when he died, and let the client calculate how and where he would land, and this should be consistent among the players. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its just too much for one server to process all the ragdolls. Its also client based hit detection or something similer, you might not even hit where you appeared to hit, hence the HL shotty at the moment isnt actually random at all. The random hits generated client side would influence the ragdolls. Since it is <i>random</i>, then each ragdoll would be different.
I suspect the most we'll see, gore-wise, is material hit effects and various types of decals on players, props, and the level geometry. Seeing a HA with fade-sized slash marks on him, an Onos with grenade-sized scorch marks, or a Hive full of bullet holes does have some actual gameplay value. A parasite, for example, could leave a visually distinct stain, so marines can spot parasited buildings or teammates.
When a digested marine dies, I'd prefer a marine's armor and weapon be puked out the Onos's mouth. The idea is that the Onos completely digested the non-nanite material and had to puke up the nanite material. Having it come out the rear might be a bit nasty. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I think Xenocide should produce a skulk ragdoll that's broken in half, similar to a Half-Life 2 zombie. This would give an indication that the skulk succesfully Xenocided, and it wouldn't be that hard to model. I'm not suggesting blood and body parts should be sprayed all over the room or anything like that.
I'm not exactly sure what the plans are for marine buildings. They could easily be made into physics props that gib when destroyed. I think it would be interesting if an Onos could knock around some of the smaller marine buildings a little. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Ragdolls will look supercool, especially on the lerk/fade.
Some more realistic building animations (especially placement) will be awesome.
Hell, you don't evn need to do a real bunnyhop to build up some speed. Just jumping repeatedly in a straight line works for me. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
blood and gore? we dont really need open gore. Its all about the enviorment. Major places should have some **** on the wall. More wettish, but not actually water infested areas. Rine start would be relativly clean of blood, but around it....needs some blood. Unless of course, story line behind map doesnt support it.
I would say B-hoping would be still ok for skulks in a realistic way. Marines? doubtfully. wall strafe needs to be taken out. HL2 doesnt allow it normally anyways. A larger lifeform wouldnt support b-hoping. ex. marines, fades, onos. Gorge would probly still be able to b-hop, but with no advantage. Landing delay would be miniscule, but it would end up being the same if u just went forward. Wieght needs to be accounted.
also, something realistic? onos devour. onos needs to more sluggish after devouring someone, and when he shits him out? going to be hard to incorperate. The Devouring act would be hard too.
Even in NS:S, skulks or the equivalent should be able to pull all kinds of crazy tricks without "realistic" phsyics having to butt in. And I want to loop the loop as a lerk and stuff. And be able to walljump as a fade or something.
How are onos going to climb HL2 ladders? Will there be jumping puzzles in NS in Onos-mode to get out of the hive?? :o Maybe you can push various crates and boxes around with your horn to make a stepladder or ramp. Somehow I see Onos being rrrrrreeeeeeaaally mean in NS:S. If I ever designed a map for NS:S, one of my hives would have a really big shipping crate next to a doorway, that an onos could slowly shove and push and knock into place to cover the door. I think onos might be the other half of the building team along with gorges. The heavy movers. You know, when they aren't angry, onos are actually like cows.
If that actually happens: <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Perhaps 2 HA or 4LA can combine strenght to push the same amount of weight an Onos can? And make it so lerks can lift semi-small things and divebomb people with them. And if you push a bigbox off a ledge it kills any players/structures under it.
I think only skulks should get BHop if it is programed in. After all, one of the skulks greatest assets is manuravibiltiy (spelling sucks...) and speed. Perhaps just make it so it doesn't require scripts or the horrendous mousewheel(how does anyone do this <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->) to do it.
I quite like the state of natural selection, its just the clan scene which blows. I believe that ns:s will lose the fast pace action of the game we have come to love. Not to mention, i bet all clanners/competive people will disable: gore, ragdoll and all those eye candy's for a better fps. Not to mention, i'll have to upgrade. I get 80fps in hl1 as it is.
Technically it is, but you don't have to be a genius to see that NS is a little less violent and a little more cartoony/child friendly then its manslaugtering rambo around counterparts.
Agreed on the fact HL2 movement will take a lot of flair away from current HL mods.
Agreed on the fact HL2 movement will take a lot of flair away from current HL mods. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
HL movement code was terrible... There were so many glitches...
Sure the glitches allowed for some fun little things, like bunnyhopping... but realisticly, bunny hopping is an absolutly rediculous concept to add intentionally.
Agreed on the fact HL2 movement will take a lot of flair away from current HL mods. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
HL movement code was terrible... There were so many glitches...
Sure the glitches allowed for some fun little things, like bunnyhopping... but realisticly, bunny hopping is an absolutly rediculous concept to add intentionally.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, don't go realisticly on me! Are aliens realistic? Medpacks spawning from mid-air? I prefer enjoyable over realistic any day thank you very much.
- The whole gore issue does <i>not</i> centered around the ratings. In terms of mods, they are pretty much inconsequential, anyway. It's a design decision.
- Movement qirks: Nobody said that the aliens should be reduced to walking single-file at a measured pace. Hell, there's stuff like wall walking in this very version of NS. The question is really that of 'quirky' movement types, or screwy movement.
maybe even the return of the view flipping when on the roof?
I quite like the state of natural selection, its just the clan scene which blows. I believe that ns:s will lose the fast pace action of the game we have come to love. Not to mention, i bet all clanners/competive people will disable: gore, ragdoll and all those eye candy's for a better fps. Not to mention, i'll have to upgrade. I get 80fps in hl1 as it is. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If someone disables the ragdolls or cool effects, <i>let them.</i> If they are going to do it then then they are doing it now. Dont worry about it.
And with the release of NS:S, I dont understand the mentality about it. You all assume that NS for HL1 is going to be gone when it releases, like *poof* woops, time to play source. Its not going to be one massive movement, I'm sure there will be a nice sized chunk that break off to play both games. Soon, the players will start to trickle into NS:S as the computers upgrade more. Sure, regular NS wont be as populated ever again, but it wont be dead in another good five years, either.
Return? that was never in any public version, out of respect towards people with weak stomaches.
I'm not pushing for tons of gore. I'm not asking for anything of that type. I'm asking for when a corpse flies up against a wall, it at least makes a little blood spat. Heaven forbid a player thats seen alien green blood sees it in a different shade. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You'll probably find this funny, but many games show human blood as Green or Yellow simply to get around the ESRB system.(many times, red blood = instant M rating, you can find a whole trough of games with that as the only reason for an M rating, and many that the only reason they are T instead of M is the blood color.)
Sorry, random comment more or less here. And from 2 pages back even.
Sidenote(as NS and in theory NS:S are both mods, this would not matter for them, although it may be applicable to NS2.)
edit: keyword I guess being "many?"