Bhopping In The Hl Engine
Curlydave1
Join Date: 2005-02-27 Member: 42685Members
Join Date: 2005-02-27 Member: 42685Members
I had been playing NS for a while, but have taken a hiatus in which I've been playing ETF. In NS I could never bunnyhop properly, while in ETF I could do it easily. The basic principle was that if you hopped repeatedly, you wouldn't lose speed. You could gain speed and accelerate from a push such as an explosion, eg rocket jump, a push from certain guns, or by hopping down a ramp. Hopping just maintained a speed. You could turn by straffing and turning in precise movements. Now that I'm about to play NS again, I'd like to know how to bhop as a skulk. I can't figure it out at all. I can hop around and in circles all I want, but I can't gain any speed. (I know the basics, eg no touching foward etc) What are the differences in HL-engine bhopping? Thanks!
PS: just to clarify, I know the basic straffe left, turn left bit, and am fairly proficient at it in ETF, but it's not applying to NS. Also, as a skulk, the direction you face tends to act oddly, probably part of the wall-walking code. eg: ever tried runnign foward while aiming up? Does that have any relevance for bunnyhopping? Also I've heard that you need to hold crouch to turn off the wall-walking code while bunnyhopping. Is this true? Thanks!
PS: just to clarify, I know the basic straffe left, turn left bit, and am fairly proficient at it in ETF, but it's not applying to NS. Also, as a skulk, the direction you face tends to act oddly, probably part of the wall-walking code. eg: ever tried runnign foward while aiming up? Does that have any relevance for bunnyhopping? Also I've heard that you need to hold crouch to turn off the wall-walking code while bunnyhopping. Is this true? Thanks!
Comments
It isn't nessicary to look down 40 degrees to bunnyhop. It is a common practice because for some reason the brain is able to time jumps better if you can properly see the ground coming up to you. but the speedgain doesn't really change with looking down or looking straight ahead.
If you haven't done so already, bind mousewheelup to jump (because scripting is lame, and you will get pwned on BS servers if you do it) and use the WASD or ESDF keys for movement. You need to keep your fingers close to the 1234 buttons so that you can still weapon switch without the mousewheel and aren't so dependent on lastinv when it comes to fading onosing or lerking, and it helps alot with skulk and gorge too when you get to hive 3-4. You will need a secondary jump key (shuch as spacebar or something else closeby) because mousewheel up is neither reponsive enough or has the ability to be held down for jetpacking and lerking. Mousewheel down is more or less useless at this point, either unbind it, bind it to jump as well in your config (can't be done from in game, but people who belive binding more than two keys to an acton is scripting are stupid), don't bother binding it to attack for your pistoling, trust me, the mousewheel is crap for pistoling, it is far better to just learn to click fast. Use the upmousewheel key for your jump bind because from my maticulous testing the majority of people have a mousewheel upstroke that runs slower (and thus takes longer) then thier downstroke. The slow speed won't affect anything in terms of jump timing, but the extra time on the stroke makes it WAY WAY easier to roll when aproaching the ground and be sure your jump will hit when you want it to.
[edit] this has been a bunnyhopping tutorial by some nub who doesn't script, and plays bs servers the vast majority of the time. Bunnyhopping is very possible without scripts, but will still require the mousewheel, so if you aren't willing to change your bind configs a little, forget you just read this whole thing. Because you will never learn due to the fact that you don't want to. This tutorial teaches you how to learn how to bunnyhop properly with the mousewheel, and what to do to still get all your nessicary binds in. Trust me, don't start scripting, you will just hurt yourself when you can't adapt worth **** when someone challenges you to play on a bs server.
[edit2] I forgot to mention, the duck key must be held at all times for skulk bunnyhopping (doesn't matter for gorges fades or onos, although onos don't fit many places well without ducking as they hop...)
I do this by binding one of the thumb buttons on my MX510 to the duck command, but it can be done just as well with any of the zxc or v buttons as they still leave you 2 fingers free for the strafe keys, so they shouldn't get much in the way of a normal bunnyhop.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And yes, I realize that it was an accident, and it was actually an accident that's existed since quake.
It's hard to explain, but there are plenty of bunnyhopping tutorials out there. Try Googling for them. Somebody here probably knows one offhand.
So what? the NS development team did not remove it on purpose and it is a sanctioned and supported NS strategy. Anyone who considers bunnyhopping in NS an exploit is full of it.
So what? the NS development team did not remove it on purpose and it is a sanctioned and supported NS strategy. Anyone who considers bunnyhopping in NS an exploit is full of it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i agree
It's hard to explain, but there are plenty of bunnyhopping tutorials out there. Try Googling for them. Somebody here probably knows one offhand. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
half figure eights... although full figure eights will get the same amount of speed increase, they are useless anywhere but the readyroom since they bring you back to where you originally started Bhopping from so you won't acctually move anywhere on the map... which is the whole point of bunny hopping
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->ASCII example of a bunnyhop path
O= landing spot, | \ and / = movement in air
O
\
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/
O
/
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\
O
\
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/
O
/
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O<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
[edit] The edit I made in the original Bhopping without scripts tutorial post is now in the quote version too.
Holding down duck button disables wall walking code; so you do not stick to any object; wall or floor... Thats why You have to hold down duck button; or use a duck toggle script while you are bhopping as skulk... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Holding duck doesn't slow down either skulks or gorges... holding walk is something totally different, and doesn't fix the skulks broken movemnt code while wallwalking. This does however apply to onos and to a lesser degree fades... Fades don't really need to duck while Bhopping, they are small enough to fit comfortably in the hallways, but you can avoid some fire if you are ducking since your hitbox shrinks consederably. Onos are just too big to Bhop without ducking, so you must duck while bhopping or you won't have enough room to glide... Onos must start thier bunnyhop from standing and then start ducking sometime during the first glidejump to ensure they will have enough room for hopping.
1. Don't bother fixating on figure-eights or half figure eights - the relation of jumps to your movement doesn't affect the speed you can gain. For example I found it significantly easier to learn with slower direction changes - one jump would go exclusively left, another exclusively right (strafewise - acceleration direction is naturally forward).
1.1 Why in the world would you bind to only up or down? Bind to both, figure out how you like it - I personally roll both directions when taking ramps or so.
Also, you don't need to keep your fingers near 1-2-3-4. Theres q, e, f, r (for alien), t, g, c, x z and v that are alot more practically located - just rebind your weaponkeys so that they don't impede you at all. Its great for instant blinkswiping and leapbiting too - faster and more accurate than scripting.
2. Crouching is only a necessity for skulks, and only to negate wallwalking. As mentioned in this thread already, if you take off with wallwalk-code enabled you'll get some extra speed - after that you can just hold down the key until you want to walk again.
2.1 On the same note, looking down WILL increase your speed while wallwalking - I just thought I'd mention it. But it is good practice to keep your view around or below the horizon slightly to get the spatial orientation cues provided by the ground.
3. Didactic practice for this is usually butt-backwards. Bunnyhopping isn't a seperate entity within the game - if you've ever let go of your forward key, odds are high you've encountered the mechanic of air control already but not had the knowledge on how to use it effectively.
The short of it is, mouse movement coinciding with your strafe direction without any other movement keys (forward/back) will produce instant FORWARD acceleration - mouse movement opposing the strafe will produce instant BACKWARD acceleration. A good way to start experimenting and building an understanding before tackling the task of actually accelerating a Skulk is to use leap in large rooms and fly circles in the air - by simply holding down a strafekey and turning.
Alternatively, starting your own server with sv_gravity 0 is also nice - just be short to use a Skulk to boost off the wall, and do NOT push your forward/back keys at all when detaching from the wall or you can get altitude change (which will just make the whole process tedious, as you'll keep hitting the ground or ceiling after a minute). sv_cheats and cl_showspeed 1 are also good helpers on your own server.
3.1 cl_showspeed
sv_gravity 800
Skulk walking speed ~340
Skulk groundspeed max ~510
Skulk airspeed max ~560
sv_gravity 0
Skulk airspeed max ~900
All figures without celerity, and off the top of my head.
Bunnyhopping wasn't in by accident, they even changed the way bunnyhopping worked from the quake engine, it is all part of deathmatch. Has been a part of deathmatch since quake, and if it was an accident, why didn't they remove it so you couldn't in hl2dm <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Holding duck doesn't slow down either skulks or gorges... holding walk is something totally different, and doesn't fix the skulks broken movemnt code while wallwalking. This does however apply to onos and to a lesser degree fades... Fades don't really need to duck while Bhopping, they are small enough to fit comfortably in the hallways, but you can avoid some fire if you are ducking since your hitbox shrinks consederably. Onos are just too big to Bhop without ducking, so you must duck while bhopping or you won't have enough room to glide... Onos must start thier bunnyhop from standing and then start ducking sometime during the first glidejump to ensure they will have enough room for hopping. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
But it does, holding duck will slow you down as a skulk... test it yourself.
Saltzbad hit the nail on the head. The only thing I want to adress is that one quoted statement. In my guide thing I was trying to keep all the binds doable without having to access any CFGs since they are a little intimidating at first and some people view CFG manipulation (wrongfully) as scripting. Bunnyhopping is still compleatly doable without accessing any CFGs, you just have to not use mousewheel down as a tradeoff.
If you are going to Bhop with only one mousewheel direction bound to jump, it should be mousewheel up. I have tested both at length and the longer strokes of the wheel on the up motion are just way more condusive good timing in Bhops then the relitively fast jerking strokes of the down motion.
Both is better, but it can be done with only one, and its better as MWup then MWdown.
anyone got tips to help me improve speed? maybe my mouse turning and pressing the strafe buttons don't coincide properly, or the angle i turn is too little/too much, or i turn too slow/ too fast. btw i don't use scripts or mwheel
no, at least when i just tested it didnt. however looking down makes you go faster as skulk (duh!) and vice versa.
anyone got tips to help me improve speed? maybe my mouse turning and pressing the strafe buttons don't coincide properly, or the angle i turn is too little/too much, or i turn too slow/ too fast. btw i don't use scripts or mwheel <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
you propably miss jumps if you bhop with just +jump bound to space.
Some think that holding the duck key will reduce speed. It does not because a Skulk cannot crouch at all. The crouch code has probably been modified for skulks to disable the wallwalk code. In fact, if holding crouch did reduce speed for Skulks, it should reduce the movement speed of Gorges and Lerks as well. I checked it myself, it didn't reduce my speed in anyway so it's probably because you strafe boost with the ground (looking down against the floor to gain speed) without holding duck.
exactly...
PS: just to clarify, I know the basic straffe left, turn left bit, and am fairly proficient at it in ETF, but it's not applying to NS. Also, as a skulk, the direction you face tends to act oddly, probably part of the wall-walking code. eg: ever tried runnign foward while aiming up? Does that have any relevance for bunnyhopping? Also I've heard that you need to hold crouch to turn off the wall-walking code while bunnyhopping. Is this true? Thanks! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
As in most cases, hold your duck button while bhopping as skulk.
Yeah, and you do realize that it was left in for the aliens by Flayra <b>intentionally</b>?
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1739&view=findpost&p=21730' target='_blank'>Flayra on bunnyhopping</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Actually, this may end up being removed, but currently, aliens with the speed upgrade can bunny hop. Basically, Valve's fix is applied to everyone else, but aliens with speed.
Unlike in most other online games, I think bunny hopping is actually "in character" for the aliens, so I don't see it being bad, but good.
I've thought a lot about adding a marine stamina bar, but it won't go in unless it's really necessary. It's just one more thing to worry about and explain to the player (though this is familiar to many people by now). I mostly wanted the stamina bar so marines could choose to sprint for short distances occasionally, while keeping their general movement speed down (needed for the commander).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, this was April 2002, but it's exactly what happened. Maybe you weren't around like I was back before bunny-hopping was changed to how it was. The big problem wasn't marine bunnyhopping, but the fact that people as marines would bhop and exploit so they didn't make any sound whatsoever. I like it the way it is now. While bhopping takes skill (and using a 3jump less, but still takes some skill), if you don't like it, go play another game; NS is clearly not yours.