<!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Mar 8 2005, 03:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Mar 8 2005, 03:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> On LM, I see MC first most of the time, SCs about 30-40% of the time, and DCs about 10% of the time.
It is difficult for a marine team to beat an alien team of equal skill. Marines have to be extremely aggressive and work together very well, in order to win. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Thats the nature of any game.
Even in the story line the marines are the aggressers. Thats how NS <i>SHOULD</i> be played.
The marines had many luxuries in earlier versions, now they don't. Its up to the players to cater to the game, not the otherway around.
Or by the words of a community I used to frequent, "If you don't like it, go somewhere else"
I've been seeing several commanders taking the approach of search and destroy upgrade chambers. Mostly comms trying to deal with SC, instructing marines to watch portions of their minimaps during scans and remember where SCs are, then stop at nothing to kill them. Then in looking for SCs find they have different chambers, and deciding to rape them anyway.
That really hurts the skulks for a little while early on, and helps the commanders to then keep the alien res chambers down and able to cap his own.
Also, Ive been seeing marine teams doing extremely well with welders. We pretty much all had welders keeping everything in tip top shape at all outposts, stopping several fades from destroying bases and pgs, not to mention a few onos. There might be a light marines running around with 28% health, but I'll be damned if he isnt going to have 100% armor at all times <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->. Helps to have a commander constantly reminding everyone to check minimaps during scans, keep eachother welded, and assasinate aliens nodes.
I've seen marines and aliens dominating on many servers, not just constant alien or marine wins.
Remember that its still balanced for 15 min games somewhere under there. This means that as marines you need to be upgrading and moving fast. I strongly suggest forgetting MT as a first upgrade unless your agaisnt silent skulks. You need to tech up asap. Scans and locking down 2 hives is much easier. If you do this right you can get a pgs before they get fades. If they get 2 hives up then your going to need high level tech and heavy weapons, particularly that gl. If you Can get that far and hold res and a hive the odd improve. Your proably going to need to babysit your marines much more and group them up to get places early on. Concentrate on your objectives and for gods sake don't mess around 30 s is a long time in ns atm.
NolSinklerOn the ClorfJoin Date: 2004-02-15Member: 26560Members, Constellation
I'm not reading the whole thread. This is a response to the first post:
During the consti builds, marines had about ONE HALF as many wins as aliens.
I had a very long list of changes. Of course everyone knocked me down and said that it was good still, and that I couldn't base my facts on that and stuff to that nature.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
It's probably just the fact that aliens get free upgrades that is affecting my shotgunning, but I find that I can't one-shot kill skulks with shotguns now anywhere nar as much as I did in beta5.
BTW, I'm still using the beta5 "pellet" crosshair. That xhair is still accurate right?
For the record, I personally belive that 3.0F is forward progress, the alien gameplay has successfully been blown up tenfold, an advance that NS development has been shooting for for a long long time.
I'm not complaining that the marines have NO valid stratigies any more, I am simply complaining that IMHO the ammount of valid stratiges the marines can apply has been limited to very few, if not one.
In a game of stratigey, ultimatly you want both teams to have a few offencive move options and a few defencive move options, it should work like a boxing match, both teams pulling out all the stops to put that heads up smack on the other team, choosing certian stratigeis over other stratiges to fit the situation, and choosing certian stratiges to counter the opponents stratigies. It shouldn't work like a dance, one team leads and the other follows. B5 the marines led and the aliens followed, 3.0 the aleins lead and the marines follow... but I'm convinced that we are still closer then ever the that sweet spot 3.1 where both teams can dish and block equal amounts of punishment, without drastically twisting the balance of the game.
[edit] as for the shotgun thing, my examples are primarily from combat, as NS play is too different to really compare against. Good players feel that the combat shotgun is drastically different then it used to be. I can only fathom a guess as to what is wrong with it, but something is, and I think the simplest fix would just be slight damage boost (at least against lifeforms)
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [edit] as for the shotgun thing, my examples are primarily from combat, as NS play is too different to really compare against. Good players feel that the combat shotgun is drastically different then it used to be. I can only fathom a guess as to what is wrong with it, but something is, and I think the simplest fix would just be slight damage boost (at least against lifeforms) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The only change to the shotgun in 3.0 is the damage falloff between 500 units and 700 units. Damage falls off gradually from maximum damage at 500 units to about 40% damage at 700 units.
If you have high long range accuracey with the shotgun you will notice this change.
Buffing the shotgun would not be a good idea. It would increase the shotgun's effectiveness at close range and undo the intended effects of damage falloff.
i must agree seige is way to hard to pull of now,i think the shotgun should probably stay as it is.So basicly buff up the siege,i think the best option would be to lower thier price.
One option that I haven't seen discussed, is this:
<b>Lower the HP of the hive. </b>
This will be an all-around large nerf to the aliens, but it forces the marines to be aggressive, which is a good thing. This will also make sieges easier to pull off.
I am beginning to find that movement chambers in the hive under attack are what keep the hive alive during a siege. When those go down, the gorges don't have the stamina to heal the hive anymore, even if they have level three adrenaline. If the gorges die with the chambers, all the better.
Aliens got better in early game by free upgrades for skulks. For skulks only!!! If you go fade you have to evolve your upgrades again, so no free upgrades for fades. So far i have to say GJ on the new version! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You can upgrade first, then go fade. lolol.
What I've seen so far in 3.0 is that in pretty much every game the aliens can constantly harass marines anywhere in the map. If the marines get owned at the very start while getting resnodes (happens all too often to the nubs lolol) aliens easily get 2 hives (sometimes they can secure all 3 at the very beginning) My resnodes dont stay up for long, and I'm constantly trying to order marines back out to recap them. All the while I need each outpost constantly manned - one fade is all it takes, and I have to send 2 marines to scare it off. It's either 2-3 marines watching each base or its GG, because as soon as that PG goes down theres no way my troops can make it back there...
Basically I need the whole marine team concentrated to make a push for anything, and I can't do that because as soon as the marines pull out the aliens move in. If the marines dont manage to dominate right at the beginning - capping several nodes (and holding them) and a hive, I'm stuck with my team on the defensive, hoping the aliens make a mistake before we do. On my MT, I constantly see alien activity everywhere on the map, even in places the marines hold...instead of one good fade patrolling the whole map, I've got 3, and marine squads always seem to get owned by 1-2 aliens unless the whole team is together and equipped with heavies and stuff Dont get me wrong, I'm a good comm and I've won my share of 3.0 games, but almost every victory so far just seems sloppy.
And sieges are a lot weaker now...I dont build turrets for my siege bases, because they dont help enough for the res, and they take up space for the sieges...Basically to make sieges work I have to have enough well-equipped marines around to kill the hive without the sieges help
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Mar 8 2005, 07:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Mar 8 2005, 07:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> First of all, the shotgun now sucks. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think it's the range. I was firing at skulks that were smack in the middle of my crosshair and it was doing jack to them, so then I started letting them get closer (a whole lot closer) and they started dieing. I really don't see why the shotgun should have such a terrible range on it, it IS a shotgun but still, it should at least be able to get direct hits on targets that are more then 3 ft away. I don't know, maybe I am doing something wrong with it.
xtcmenJoin Date: 2004-04-20Member: 28040Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--QuoteBegin-Beretta+Mar 8 2005, 11:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Beretta @ Mar 8 2005, 11:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No you cant Xtc men you lose your upgrades once fade.. lolol to you to. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> oh gg. THen its a good idea!
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Shotguns are no longer sniper weapons, they completely suck on longer distances and only make damage in close combat. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Shotguns are no longer anything. They kniferized em. Better off with an lmg in most situations so why add a weapon that costs 10 res and is worse?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> From what I've seen, marines refuse to adapt.
A 1337 NS Clanner: "WTH, I only killed 2 skulks before the other 2 got me. This is bs, and must be hax"
Marines could be extrememly effective by using minimal team-work (which extends to maybe getting a weld if you spend 2 minutes spamming your flashlight in the face of another marine) in the betas. This is no longer the case. They have to group up now, and rely heavily on the commander (whose role (quite rightly, IMHO) has extended from upgrading structures with the occasional RT drop, to scouting for his squads, with the use of his ears and the observatory). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is funny because well... You're an idiot. First of all I generally get 4 or 5 skulks so....
Secondly how does your premise that all rines need is more teamwork to adapt relate to L33t clanners? They have far more teamwork than the average player.
Secondly it's not entirely a matter of adapting. Yes you need to do this but even after adapting you shouldn't be able to play as well on marine because aliens are stronger and marines are weaker. If you adapt to the point where your as operating at the same skill level as you were in b5 you should still have less success on marine because the aliens got stronger and the marines got weaker.
Make a point next time.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If there are really issues with the new shotgun, i guess, it is related to the server performance problems and high chokes. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know exactly what it is but it is definately messed up. I deliberately aim behind things now to get kills with it. Maybe it is just the new server lag issues and people like me who ping like 140 now are just ****.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I strongly suggest forgetting MT as a first upgrade unless your agaisnt silent skulks<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hope you mean this the other way around. When they have movement/silence you want mt. When they have sc you don't...
Skulks should not be able to run while cloaked thats just stupid. The other alien buffs are ok. The nerfs on rine are just stupid.
I think this is how NS was supposed to be played. It only goes to show how ramboism (God forbid that's a word) effected NS in a major way. Now teamwork is required, which was supposed to be used in the first place. You can't have people shooting their way into areas because you have your silent and cloaked skulks. If a person does manage to secure an area by himself, it's the alien teams problem for not scouting enough. I think the cloaking and silence have done the goal of reducing skill levels. Now even if you are skilled, it is still hard to locate where a cloaked or silent skulk may be. If you have a team though, your chances of survival increase dramatically. It somewhat brings back the element of suspense that is easily seen in the background picture when you first open the game.
I was however, disappointed in some features in the game that still aren't used as often as they could have, namely hand grenades and catpacks.
Catpacks can be somewhat useful its just at a much higher level of play than you usually see on pubs.
Now it takes more teamwork for the marines to kill one skulk camping in a door. But what if the aliens exhibit the same teamwork and have 3 and a lerk? Marines lose. You have to discuss the game in terms of equal teamwork. Obviously if one team has it at a far superior level they will dominate.
NO GRENDEL YOU ARE PRICELESS <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-NGE+Mar 8 2005, 07:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ Mar 8 2005, 07:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-TheJim+Mar 8 2005, 09:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheJim @ Mar 8 2005, 09:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Ollj+Mar 8 2005, 01:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ollj @ Mar 8 2005, 01:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Shotguns are no longer sniper weapons, they completely suck on longer distances and only make damage in close combat. They are now only good against fades, but not if shot too early. Shotguns are defensive weapons, useless for rambos, good agaisnt movement first! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Shotties aren't meant to be sniper weapons matey i mean u pick up a shotgun u dont expect it to really hurt someone 20 - 30 meters away do u?
Its about time shotties lost their ability to be used as a sniper tbh! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> In real life a shotgun can shoot well over 80 meters. Learn your guns. The TSA, for being such an advanced coorpiration, sure makes inferior weaponry. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think you should learn to read there! Where did i say that 20 - 30 meter was max range....? I didn't funnily enough! Don't give a stupid answer like learn ya guns or the ranges unless someone says max range or whatever it is rather annoying and shows ya inability to read properly! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Yes it can shoot that far but can u gaurantee hitting ya target with sufficiant damage from 20 plus meters away upto 80 metes ya lucky if 1 - 3 of the shrapnel bullets hit u tbh! and by the 80m range they would of slowed down enough not to do anything much than to pierce ya skin if that!
Also i see alot about how marines and aliens are overpowered etc and this is my answer!
Yes aliens are more powerfull than marines there is no question there but do u know what probably the main reason for them being more powerfull?
I believe it has something to do with the fact that alien res is shared and marines res isnt shared!
U have 9 vs 9 say 4 rt's each the marines will be able to advance alot quicker than aliens and therefore their team work can win any game in that scenario!
even if aliens have 6 - 8 rt's and marines still have 4 rt's in 9 vs 9 the marines still would (with team work) most probably win due to the marines not having to have the res from rt's shared out!
Aliens res rate from rt's in this scenario is slower than marines. Marines can get 100 res in almost double the time it takes 1 aliens in 9 vs 9 to get 50 res!
The problem with many pub games is the big diversity between competitive-level players and those who play once in a while and aren't tuned in to what's going on in the game (in which case they should stick to combat for a long time). Should the devs appeal to the skilled veteran players and diehard fans to formulate an image on how intensive competition is at that level; or on removing the leash on noobish players and letting them come and go as they please while owning the image of the game.
Maybe they should create a 'beginner' and 'advanced' system of play-modes for servers, with beginner promising equality and rambo tactics for those of any un-developed skill, and advanced offering the intensity and need for teamwork that it does now. Wow, I just defined the systems of Combat and Classic. Maybe combat should integrate more RTS into the game, or maybe there should be a counter technology for every alien upgrade, particularily targetting chosen fade upgrades.
It's obviously not easy to decide the perfect way for NS to work, because that's what's been on the minds of the Dev team for years. What we need is a BUS system. Yeah, hopefully within a few weeks we become introduced to the beast that'll change the way NS is played for good. Because that's what we all really want...? Is it better to be kept a secret from the community and eventually cause frustration, or tell us what it is and either bring excitement and demand for it as soon as possible, or kill any suspenseful release. All I know is that it's been something like a year or probably less since I've been waiting to hear what this is, I almost want to hunt down Flayra and make him tell us... or do they even know what it is? Spam them, beg them, bribe them with sex; we must know what the BUS is.
<!--QuoteBegin-Grendel+Mar 9 2005, 04:14 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grendel @ Mar 9 2005, 04:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This thread is priceless. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Isn't it though?
Seems all you need to do in order to get the attention of the NS comunity is rant borderline incoherantly. God knows all the threads I've made in the past that I felt had some real content to them weren't this popular.
Notice how I argued point by point in my Problems thread which consisted mostly about things against sensory but it died in a page because people don't like having to use logic. In Fila's "sensory" thread he basically just says I hate sensory and **** you all and it goes 4 pages of spam. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
GrendelAll that is fear...Join Date: 2002-07-19Member: 970Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Playtester
edited March 2005
Getting the public's ear and support is about applying to their emotions, not providing them with a logical case.
But that's not such a bad thing as over 99% of posts on these forums are based on spurious logic. The standard post usually involves compartmentalising a problem and providing a solution without concern for the holistic impact on gameplay.
There's also a willful failure (frequently) to appreciate that the poster's own evaluation of the game is shaped by their emotional response. Not many people will even entertain the notion that they might be emotionally involved about things they feel passionate about.
I agree aliens are too strong as always. Only a very skilled marine team with a good coom can win sometimes.
The problem is that aliens can always resist, a 2 skilled skulk can kill an alone ha. 2 lmg marines can't do anything against an onos. But the problem is not this. The problem is the mid game, when marines lost res and aliens go stronger. The problem is "blink". Blink is usefull also when you havo no stamina. It let you escape 99% of the times. lmg can't do nothing versus a skilled fade.
imho to balance the game these things must be done
lmg - > 75 rounds in a clip or a little more damage like 11. skulk -> little more healt like 85 and 20 armour blink -> as now but when the stamina il low fade can't use blink. (like 1/3).
I think this is the best version of ns yet, has all the features of 3.0 with the feel of 1.0.
You know I keep wondering about the balance issue of ns, I think at the end of the day its impossible to achieve any real perfect balance because NS is so large a game. Everyone I speak too has different experiences with it, as grendel said, that are effected by their personality and feelings.
Sometimes I've seen the marines win because they kept pushing against the aliens, always trying to take down rt's, though sometimes this doesnt work the aliens still win. I think this is down to which side has the better players.
This is again a point, clan play, because teamwork is a major part could lead to the aliens being on the losing, so do you balance for clan play or public play?
Anyway I think the new cloak is brilliant, actually makes cloaking useful. I think the dominance of 1 chamber is over.
Really enjoying 3.0 after months of being away from ns.
Comments
It is difficult for a marine team to beat an alien team of equal skill. Marines have to be extremely aggressive and work together very well, in order to win. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats the nature of any game.
Even in the story line the marines are the aggressers. Thats how NS <i>SHOULD</i> be played.
The marines had many luxuries in earlier versions, now they don't. Its up to the players to cater to the game, not the otherway around.
Or by the words of a community I used to frequent, "If you don't like it, go somewhere else"
That really hurts the skulks for a little while early on, and helps the commanders to then keep the alien res chambers down and able to cap his own.
Also, Ive been seeing marine teams doing extremely well with welders. We pretty much all had welders keeping everything in tip top shape at all outposts, stopping several fades from destroying bases and pgs, not to mention a few onos. There might be a light marines running around with 28% health, but I'll be damned if he isnt going to have 100% armor at all times <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->. Helps to have a commander constantly reminding everyone to check minimaps during scans, keep eachother welded, and assasinate aliens nodes.
I've seen marines and aliens dominating on many servers, not just constant alien or marine wins.
During the consti builds, marines had about ONE HALF as many wins as aliens.
I had a very long list of changes. Of course everyone knocked me down and said that it was good still, and that I couldn't base my facts on that and stuff to that nature.
BTW, I'm still using the beta5 "pellet" crosshair. That xhair is still accurate right?
I'm not complaining that the marines have NO valid stratigies any more, I am simply complaining that IMHO the ammount of valid stratiges the marines can apply has been limited to very few, if not one.
In a game of stratigey, ultimatly you want both teams to have a few offencive move options and a few defencive move options, it should work like a boxing match, both teams pulling out all the stops to put that heads up smack on the other team, choosing certian stratigeis over other stratiges to fit the situation, and choosing certian stratiges to counter the opponents stratigies. It shouldn't work like a dance, one team leads and the other follows. B5 the marines led and the aliens followed, 3.0 the aleins lead and the marines follow... but I'm convinced that we are still closer then ever the that sweet spot 3.1 where both teams can dish and block equal amounts of punishment, without drastically twisting the balance of the game.
[edit] as for the shotgun thing, my examples are primarily from combat, as NS play is too different to really compare against. Good players feel that the combat shotgun is drastically different then it used to be. I can only fathom a guess as to what is wrong with it, but something is, and I think the simplest fix would just be slight damage boost (at least against lifeforms)
[edit] as for the shotgun thing, my examples are primarily from combat, as NS play is too different to really compare against. Good players feel that the combat shotgun is drastically different then it used to be. I can only fathom a guess as to what is wrong with it, but something is, and I think the simplest fix would just be slight damage boost (at least against lifeforms)
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The only change to the shotgun in 3.0 is the damage falloff between 500 units and 700 units. Damage falls off gradually from maximum damage at 500 units to about 40% damage at 700 units.
If you have high long range accuracey with the shotgun you will notice this change.
Buffing the shotgun would not be a good idea. It would increase the shotgun's effectiveness at close range and undo the intended effects of damage falloff.
<b>Lower the HP of the hive. </b>
This will be an all-around large nerf to the aliens, but it forces the marines to be aggressive, which is a good thing. This will also make sieges easier to pull off.
Aliens got better in early game by free upgrades for skulks.
For skulks only!!!
If you go fade you have to evolve your upgrades again, so no free upgrades for fades.
So far i have to say GJ on the new version! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can upgrade first, then go fade. lolol.
Basically I need the whole marine team concentrated to make a push for anything, and I can't do that because as soon as the marines pull out the aliens move in. If the marines dont manage to dominate right at the beginning - capping several nodes (and holding them) and a hive, I'm stuck with my team on the defensive, hoping the aliens make a mistake before we do.
On my MT, I constantly see alien activity everywhere on the map, even in places the marines hold...instead of one good fade patrolling the whole map, I've got 3, and marine squads always seem to get owned by 1-2 aliens unless the whole team is together and equipped with heavies and stuff
Dont get me wrong, I'm a good comm and I've won my share of 3.0 games, but almost every victory so far just seems sloppy.
And sieges are a lot weaker now...I dont build turrets for my siege bases, because they dont help enough for the res, and they take up space for the sieges...Basically to make sieges work I have to have enough well-equipped marines around to kill the hive without the sieges help
I think it's the range. I was firing at skulks that were smack in the middle of my crosshair and it was doing jack to them, so then I started letting them get closer (a whole lot closer) and they started dieing. I really don't see why the shotgun should have such a terrible range on it, it IS a shotgun but still, it should at least be able to get direct hits on targets that are more then 3 ft away. I don't know, maybe I am doing something wrong with it.
oh gg. THen its a good idea!
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Shotguns are no longer anything. They kniferized em. Better off with an lmg in most situations so why add a weapon that costs 10 res and is worse?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
From what I've seen, marines refuse to adapt.
A 1337 NS Clanner: "WTH, I only killed 2 skulks before the other 2 got me. This is bs, and must be hax"
Marines could be extrememly effective by using minimal team-work (which extends to maybe getting a weld if you spend 2 minutes spamming your flashlight in the face of another marine) in the betas. This is no longer the case. They have to group up now, and rely heavily on the commander (whose role (quite rightly, IMHO) has extended from upgrading structures with the occasional RT drop, to scouting for his squads, with the use of his ears and the observatory).
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This is funny because well... You're an idiot. First of all I generally get 4 or 5 skulks so....
Secondly how does your premise that all rines need is more teamwork to adapt relate to L33t clanners? They have far more teamwork than the average player.
Secondly it's not entirely a matter of adapting. Yes you need to do this but even after adapting you shouldn't be able to play as well on marine because aliens are stronger and marines are weaker. If you adapt to the point where your as operating at the same skill level as you were in b5 you should still have less success on marine because the aliens got stronger and the marines got weaker.
Make a point next time.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If there are really issues with the new shotgun, i guess, it is related to the server performance problems and high chokes.
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I don't know exactly what it is but it is definately messed up. I deliberately aim behind things now to get kills with it. Maybe it is just the new server lag issues and people like me who ping like 140 now are just ****.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I strongly suggest forgetting MT as a first upgrade unless your agaisnt silent skulks<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hope you mean this the other way around. When they have movement/silence you want mt. When they have sc you don't...
Skulks should not be able to run while cloaked thats just stupid. The other alien buffs are ok. The nerfs on rine are just stupid.
I was however, disappointed in some features in the game that still aren't used as often as they could have, namely hand grenades and catpacks.
Now it takes more teamwork for the marines to kill one skulk camping in a door. But what if the aliens exhibit the same teamwork and have 3 and a lerk? Marines lose. You have to discuss the game in terms of equal teamwork. Obviously if one team has it at a far superior level they will dominate.
They are now only good against fades, but not if shot too early.
Shotguns are defensive weapons, useless for rambos, good agaisnt movement first! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Shotties aren't meant to be sniper weapons matey i mean u pick up a shotgun u dont expect it to really hurt someone 20 - 30 meters away do u?
Its about time shotties lost their ability to be used as a sniper tbh! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In real life a shotgun can shoot well over 80 meters. Learn your guns. The TSA, for being such an advanced coorpiration, sure makes inferior weaponry. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you should learn to read there! Where did i say that 20 - 30 meter was max range....? I didn't funnily enough! Don't give a stupid answer like learn ya guns or the ranges unless someone says max range or whatever it is rather annoying and shows ya inability to read properly! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Yes it can shoot that far but can u gaurantee hitting ya target with sufficiant damage from 20 plus meters away upto 80 metes ya lucky if 1 - 3 of the shrapnel bullets hit u tbh! and by the 80m range they would of slowed down enough not to do anything much than to pierce ya skin if that!
Also i see alot about how marines and aliens are overpowered etc and this is my answer!
Yes aliens are more powerfull than marines there is no question there but do u know what probably the main reason for them being more powerfull?
I believe it has something to do with the fact that alien res is shared and marines res isnt shared!
U have 9 vs 9 say 4 rt's each the marines will be able to advance alot quicker than aliens and therefore their team work can win any game in that scenario!
even if aliens have 6 - 8 rt's and marines still have 4 rt's in 9 vs 9 the marines still would (with team work) most probably win due to the marines not having to have the res from rt's shared out!
Aliens res rate from rt's in this scenario is slower than marines. Marines can get 100 res in almost double the time it takes 1 aliens in 9 vs 9 to get 50 res!
Maybe they should create a 'beginner' and 'advanced' system of play-modes for servers, with beginner promising equality and rambo tactics for those of any un-developed skill, and advanced offering the intensity and need for teamwork that it does now. Wow, I just defined the systems of Combat and Classic. Maybe combat should integrate more RTS into the game, or maybe there should be a counter technology for every alien upgrade, particularily targetting chosen fade upgrades.
It's obviously not easy to decide the perfect way for NS to work, because that's what's been on the minds of the Dev team for years. What we need is a BUS system. Yeah, hopefully within a few weeks we become introduced to the beast that'll change the way NS is played for good. Because that's what we all really want...? Is it better to be kept a secret from the community and eventually cause frustration, or tell us what it is and either bring excitement and demand for it as soon as possible, or kill any suspenseful release. All I know is that it's been something like a year or probably less since I've been waiting to hear what this is, I almost want to hunt down Flayra and make him tell us... or do they even know what it is? Spam them, beg them, bribe them with sex; we must know what the BUS is.
Isn't it though?
Seems all you need to do in order to get the attention of the NS comunity is rant borderline incoherantly. God knows all the threads I've made in the past that I felt had some real content to them weren't this popular.
But that's not such a bad thing as over 99% of posts on these forums are based on spurious logic. The standard post usually involves compartmentalising a problem and providing a solution without concern for the holistic impact on gameplay.
There's also a willful failure (frequently) to appreciate that the poster's own evaluation of the game is shaped by their emotional response. Not many people will even entertain the notion that they might be emotionally involved about things they feel passionate about.
[Edit]Corrected appalling spelling[/Edit]
The problem is that aliens can always resist, a 2 skilled skulk can kill an alone ha. 2 lmg marines can't do anything against an onos.
But the problem is not this. The problem is the mid game, when marines lost res and aliens go stronger. The problem is "blink". Blink is usefull also when you havo no stamina. It let you escape 99% of the times. lmg can't do nothing versus a skilled fade.
imho to balance the game these things must be done
lmg - > 75 rounds in a clip or a little more damage like 11.
skulk -> little more healt like 85 and 20 armour
blink -> as now but when the stamina il low fade can't use blink. (like 1/3).
Ah and the catalyst should cost 1.
You know I keep wondering about the balance issue of ns, I think at the end of the day its impossible to achieve any real perfect balance because NS is so large a game. Everyone I speak too has different experiences with it, as grendel said, that are effected by their personality and feelings.
Sometimes I've seen the marines win because they kept pushing against the aliens, always trying to take down rt's, though sometimes this doesnt work the aliens still win. I think this is down to which side has the better players.
This is again a point, clan play, because teamwork is a major part could lead to the aliens being on the losing, so do you balance for clan play or public play?
Anyway I think the new cloak is brilliant, actually makes cloaking useful. I think the dominance of 1 chamber is over.
Really enjoying 3.0 after months of being away from ns.