Structure Placement
KoniaX
Join Date: 2003-02-16 Member: 13641Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-02-16 Member: 13641Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Is it even important anymore?</div> I've noticed this for some time now. It seems that it doesn't matter where the structures are placed anymore. I remember in the 1.3 and 1.4 days structure placement was vital to wining for marines. Now, many commanders just put everything down as quickly as they can with no regard at all to base construction. I believe that this is due to NS becoming more of a FPS than a RPG type game.
Questions, comments, suggestions?
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Questions, comments, suggestions?
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Comments
For your other buildings, place them against a wall or a corner, so the aliens can't hide behind them while they are attacking them.
Structure placement is important, but it never makes or breaks games.
For your other buildings, place them against a wall or a corner, so the aliens can't hide behind them while they are attacking them.
Structure placement is important, but it never makes or breaks games. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would disagree with that statement simply because the mistake of keep a structure too cloose to the CC can cause the lost of said structure and can be very detrimental to the marine team.
For example a commander plays his armslab too close to the command chair, and in the middle of the area (so it can be circle strafed) is susceptiable to having it be attacked. If the commander pops, and starts shooting, the skulk can use the structure (while chomping on it) as a means for a shield. If the commander (who is now a marine) advances, the skulk can now close the gap easier because of the sloppy structure placement and will have a greater oppurtunity to knock of the commander, and spawn camp.
Structures should be placed so that commanders if they have to pop, have the GREATEST ammount of distance between themselves and the structure.
Structures like the obs, armslab, armory and protolab should be placed in a corner, or hugging a wall, to prevent an alien from using it as a shield.
I am known to recycle and rebuild a entire base if I took over from aother comm
You may think "it'll never happen" but you'd be surprised how many comms have been viciously screwed because they never heard base under attack messages.
Furthermore, you try defending base in a cramped and crappy layout. Not pretty.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=88500' target='_blank'>Stucture Placement Advice</a>
For your other buildings, place them against a wall or a corner, so the aliens can't hide behind them while they are attacking them.
Structure placement is important, but it never makes or breaks games. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would disagree with that statement simply because the mistake of keep a structure too cloose to the CC can cause the lost of said structure and can be very detrimental to the marine team.
For example a commander plays his armslab too close to the command chair, and in the middle of the area (so it can be circle strafed) is susceptiable to having it be attacked. If the commander pops, and starts shooting, the skulk can use the structure (while chomping on it) as a means for a shield. If the commander (who is now a marine) advances, the skulk can now close the gap easier because of the sloppy structure placement and will have a greater oppurtunity to knock of the commander, and spawn camp.
Structures should be placed so that commanders if they have to pop, have the GREATEST ammount of distance between themselves and the structure.
Structures like the obs, armslab, armory and protolab should be placed in a corner, or hugging a wall, to prevent an alien from using it as a shield. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're right. I forgot to mention it.
A bit too much sarcasm there, dont you think?
I still think structure placement is important, b/c
1) Bilebomb
2) Skulk chomping your base
3) ip spawn fragging (i.e. ip next to armory, rines hump armory, rines get fragged by ip)
4) weapon/equipment dropping reasons
Heres some tips..
A: space the structures, do this so that rines can get in and out easily. This also lets turrets have an easier time hitting stuff that gets in.
B: place mines in the space between for an extra punch.
C: Keep TF's obstructed (behind objects, around corners, etc) and place the turrets so that an alien has to go past them to even find the TF.
D: space IP's as far from (big must)
You Sound like rapier7 only 1000 times worse
~Jason
even though not a single skulk enters the base and your building structure is not made to use, the extra few seconds needed to place them down wouldn't make much of a difference to the game, while a skulk entering a stupidly positioned base can cost you a game.
IMO making the armory unacessable to marines is the worst mistake you can make. If worst comes to worst, protect your advanced armory with turrets, it's better then crippling your marines response time for the whole game.
<a href='http://koti.mbnet.fi/tomekki/baset/' target='_blank'>http://koti.mbnet.fi/tomekki/baset/</a>
see <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=88662&view=findpost&p=1400598' target='_blank'>this</a> post for fixes for some flaws in these builds.
haha, i know. lost2 was just something i wanted to try out because i got the idea of how it could perhaps work. iirc i havent seen it used in a match, though. obviously the vent above the obs and armslab has to be welded shut <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
and i deliberately placed the the 2 ip's and armory in a triangle as far as possible from each other with the pg in the middle, at least in most cases. another important factor is how easily beaconed marines can reach the phase gate, so it must be around the middle of the spawn points (read: base).
I have also made the conclusion that making those open bases wins over tight shacks. As mentioned Does anyone have some good tips how to make your base _flow_ I usually place the armory next to pg so that you have armory and pg in same line when you spawn in IP. Also using the corners ftw, as tomekki preciously showed.
All of the builds are decent. Comments on your builds.
caged:
The commander lacks line of sight on both the armory and obs. They can both be placed against the far wall where the commander maintains line of sight. The arms lab is an early game stucture, therefore placing it below the vent has major early skulk rush factors. Judging what team you are playing also plays a role in possible early game rushes.
eclipse:
Good build, good marine start.
note: Someone asked if the arms lab in that location has a blind spot. It does not. The armory actuly has the largest blind spot in his build.
lost1:
good
lost2:
bad, everything about it is bad.
metal:
Your metal build is rather interesting. It would have the awsome effect of reducing the effectivness of fades(which metal marine start is known for) although it again takes away line of sight from the commander. Simply because the commander loses 100% line of site on your armbs lab and obs, I would never use this build.
origin:
Everything is good except the armory placement. The armory placement is horrible in fact. There is a huge blind spot. Just drop the armory down off the brush and it will remove the blind spot.
tanith:
I frequently see commanders drop their armory there but have never figured out why. There is a blind spot and it is close to the chair. Having a blind spot on any structure that close to the chair is brutal for the commander. Why not far-wall the armory just like you have the other structures?
veil:
I thought I skulk would be able to fit behind your arms lab, so I went and tested it. I was wrong, the small space behind the arms lab is too small for a skulk to fit within. The fact that a skulk can not fix behind your arms makes this build impressive and new to me.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->lost2:
bad, everything about it is bad.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i saw this one coming <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> you're right, though.
However, the thread author commented on 1.03-1.04 placement... and that was as often tfac placement as anything else. I think, yes, as a community, we're seeing a lot more sloppy outpost designs. Think tfs where 1-turret down makes a blind spot, phasegates neither protected by electricity nor in an open area, outpost observatories without any protection... It's just sloppy.
Admittedly, there's no best solution for outpost design... too many possible locations, too many variations (obs, no obs, for example). But, I think you can still tell, in general, the good comm who places an easy-exit phasegate with some electricity cover, versus the bad comm whose tfac is in the middle of the room with 1 turret on the rear, and a phasegate jammed between an unelec res node and wall. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
It's just that a lot of the new comms... just don't get it. Don't know why. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->