Property Damage
Shrike3O
Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6678Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6678Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">or, how i learned to love the shotgun.</div> A little math dropped this one in my lap <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> In the early game, going out and deciding to trash some buildings can be a decidedly knifey experience for the marines (made easier by having a welder, but sometimes you don't WANT to sit there hitting something for a long time)... so let's see how this works out if you decide to go the "high-logistics" road...
Pistol:
20 damage per round, 10 rounds per magazine: 200 damage per magazine.
4 magazines total = 800 damage in that weapon between reloads.
LMG:
10 damage per round, 50 rounds per magazine: 500 damage per magazine.
6 magazines total = 3000 damage in that weapon between reloads.
HMG:
18 damage per round, 150 rounds per cassette: 2700 damage per magazine.
3 cassettes total = 8100 damage in that weapon between reloads.
Shotgun:
16 damage per pellet, 10 pellets per shell, 10 shells maximum in the magazine: 1600 damage in the magazine.
60 shells total = 9600 damage in that weapon between reloads.
GL:
180 damage per round, 2x damage for blast, 4 rounds per magazine: 1440 damage (to buildings) per magazine.
8.5 magazines total = 12240 damage (to buildings) in that weapon between reloads.
Obviously, the grenade launcher is the king of ripping up buildings numerically, but the resource (and time) investment in putting a GL out on the field and using it to trash buildings is pretty high. Given that it's often used for indirect fire when trashing buildings, your total damage in the field is probably somewhat less, and you've restricted your effectiveness in a firefight by taking it (since it's not exactly the ideal weapon for engaging skulks and lerks...). When you've got the time, though, it's pretty nice.
The HMG also isn't without it's issues... high cost to deploy, and it slows you down somewhat. I'm not denying it's usefulness in a flat-out firefight, but it restricts you somewhat in terms of rapid deployment.
The pistol and LMG really aren't choices when it comes to trashing a building... you basically shouldn't bother unless there's several of you concentrating fire <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
But the shotgun, now... plenty of ammo, severe damage at close range, availiable early on... hell, 20 rounds will get rid of a resource tower without much trouble... you've just got to have the aliens off your back long enough to reload once. Quite nasty in a firefight at close ranges, doesn't slow you down, and it's quite rare for a shotgunner to have the time to run through all 60 rounds without getting near an armory at some point.
Commanders, if you're planning on tearing up some structures earlier on in the game, consider issuing the shotgun to one of the members of the squad <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> You won't regret it.
(EDIT: Thanks, whoever moved this <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> )
Pistol:
20 damage per round, 10 rounds per magazine: 200 damage per magazine.
4 magazines total = 800 damage in that weapon between reloads.
LMG:
10 damage per round, 50 rounds per magazine: 500 damage per magazine.
6 magazines total = 3000 damage in that weapon between reloads.
HMG:
18 damage per round, 150 rounds per cassette: 2700 damage per magazine.
3 cassettes total = 8100 damage in that weapon between reloads.
Shotgun:
16 damage per pellet, 10 pellets per shell, 10 shells maximum in the magazine: 1600 damage in the magazine.
60 shells total = 9600 damage in that weapon between reloads.
GL:
180 damage per round, 2x damage for blast, 4 rounds per magazine: 1440 damage (to buildings) per magazine.
8.5 magazines total = 12240 damage (to buildings) in that weapon between reloads.
Obviously, the grenade launcher is the king of ripping up buildings numerically, but the resource (and time) investment in putting a GL out on the field and using it to trash buildings is pretty high. Given that it's often used for indirect fire when trashing buildings, your total damage in the field is probably somewhat less, and you've restricted your effectiveness in a firefight by taking it (since it's not exactly the ideal weapon for engaging skulks and lerks...). When you've got the time, though, it's pretty nice.
The HMG also isn't without it's issues... high cost to deploy, and it slows you down somewhat. I'm not denying it's usefulness in a flat-out firefight, but it restricts you somewhat in terms of rapid deployment.
The pistol and LMG really aren't choices when it comes to trashing a building... you basically shouldn't bother unless there's several of you concentrating fire <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
But the shotgun, now... plenty of ammo, severe damage at close range, availiable early on... hell, 20 rounds will get rid of a resource tower without much trouble... you've just got to have the aliens off your back long enough to reload once. Quite nasty in a firefight at close ranges, doesn't slow you down, and it's quite rare for a shotgunner to have the time to run through all 60 rounds without getting near an armory at some point.
Commanders, if you're planning on tearing up some structures earlier on in the game, consider issuing the shotgun to one of the members of the squad <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> You won't regret it.
(EDIT: Thanks, whoever moved this <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> )
Comments
While all the is true, the shotgun is effectively the least accurate weapon in the game. It's spread fire ensures that all 10 pellets won't hit the target unless you're at almost point blank range. A LMG will do roughly the same damage wether you are 5 or 15 meters away. Also, you might want to try a figure time between shots and reloading time to get damage per second, The shotgun is good per clip but it takes awhile to reload, 2nd only to the HMG if I'm not mistaken.
This is the result of my job... when you're driving around town a lot, you think of some random things...
Admittedly true. However, keep in mind the amount of times you need to reload the LMG to get enough damage to tear down a building out of it. An offense turret has got 1200 HP... you'll be 20 rounds into your THIRD magazine when it goes down. With a shotgun at close range (possible if you can get some cover, or you're a decent dodger) that turret will usually go down without you having to reload.
Then there's the ever-present "we've cleared the area, let's take over the resource node" situation. Yeah, you can break out the knife and rip down the node... but that takes a while. If you're not planning on setting up in the area, you've also got the option of just shotgunning the hell out of it... in the later half of the second magazine's worth of ammo, it'll drop. Quick way to cost the aliens 22 RP to set up a new one, great on search-and-destroy raids.
Good to have you guys aboard, in any case.
the SG is great for taking out OC's that some gorge drops right around the corner of a hallway. Ain't nothin' says lovin' like some 12 gauge mail
[HR]Hellraiser/Stratovarius (Mostly from Models forum <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->)
As to the shottie, I've used it, but I find it lacking after the aliens get the second hive up, and the fades start chucking acid rockets at you. Before then though, it blows away almost anything, especially if more than 1-2 peope have it. The 1HK on skulks is very nice, as is nearly wasting a lerk in 1 shot.
Take the damage per shot*(shots in 1 clip)/(time to fire full clip + reload time) to get the avg dps.
I find the shotgun to never be used. it costs almost as much as a hmg for cryin out loud! Sure you get it earlier, but i'd rather save up RPs.
Never underestimate the power to unleash ALL your damage potential in one shot rather then spread over one clip.
I myself was an avid FA player-turned-NS junkie: [BtE]Spiff -> [LWB] Harvester of Pain -> [NME] Harvester of Pain be me.
I have no trouble long range with shotgun against skulks or lurks. For fades and the elephantos I try to get up close.
I dont know the math but a welder will take out a structure faster than anythign else. I use it all the time.
At first, I didn't like the shottie too much because of it's spread, but I literally dealt the finishing blow in a game yesterday. Some Lerk was hanging out in a vent after we had taken everything else out. My commander was getting me a jetpack, but I saw the thing start moving through motion tracking. I move to the vent opening, and the second that I saw the blue circle disappear, I shot. This was from like across the room, and there was a HUGE spread - but enough pellets made their way into the vent to take that camper out. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I mean ive gotten behind sooo many aliens and ate them alive with a few skulk ranged shotfun blasts. A fade is a tuf beast head on, but when you sneak up on em with a shotfun, de toast. So if you want a cheap but higly effective marine, give em shotty + Jetpack + welder. They just trounce around spamming OWNED over and over. Its awsome.
[Edit:Spelling, but i problably still missed some, oh well.]
There is already a thread about how Shotties work. You can read it - <a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=20&t=11497' target='_blank'>Here</a>
His entire thread was based on the spread of the shotgun pellets in a wall. The marks made in the wall are client-side decals that appear randomly within a given area. The weapon does its damage with hitscan, not where the pellets hit.
BTW, I coulda sworn that this thread was up first, I remember seeing it last night. I thought Deadly Freeze posted his this morning?
That thread is about how Shotties hit, this threat is about How much damage different weapons do. I was merely pointing Gieger over to where how shotties hit had already been discussed rather than repeating it here.
Shotty / Jetpack is the funnest combo in NS, I hate being slow... so I never use heavy armor.
Things like hives don't attack, so you just get close and unload the shotty into it.
From experience, the hive doesnt last very long, and you can single-shot the skulks that spawn in.
-Brew
Thanks in advance!
Now, if this theory is correct, and buildings also happen to have a high armor class (which they should, similarly to WC3), the shootey would be nigh-pointless. We all ought to know that in real life, shootey don't really do any damage to an armored target, and structures are generally the most armored of all targets.
Another observation that kaosdrone made concerning the demolition of Kharaa offensive chambers - offenive chambers are very stupid and incredibly inacurrate. Often, simply crouching will send all those little lugies flying over your head, doing nothing. I really hope Flay fixes this, as it makes the offensive chambers pointless blobs of meat waiting to get sieged.