Ragdoll In Hl 1!

Alcapwn · March 2005

Freddeh · March 2005

It looks nice...but i doubt its going to go into ns for 2 main reasons:

1) The devs are already working on ns:s (or definately plan to)

2) What kind of affect would htis have on server performance? How hard would it be to implement in ns as is? Problems such as these would also not encourage the devs to even try and implement it.

Its pretty cool though <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' />

Aaron · March 2005

For what it is worth, I think rigid body dynamics has already been done:

<a href='http://www.frontline2.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=864' target='_blank'>http://www.frontline2.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=864</a>

Not sure about the ragdoll stuff though.

UKchaos · March 2005

The demo doesnt make it look good. Its just the half-life grunt turning to jelly and collapsing in a very unrealistic way (legs all bendy). I dont think any of the joints are weighted so the limbs just flail about all over the place <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

Negativity · March 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Freddeh @ Mar 19 2005, 02:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> 2) What kind of affect would htis have on server performance? How hard would it be to implement in ns as is? Problems such as these would also not encourage the devs to even try and implement it. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
It should be client-side then. There's no need for server-side ragdoll.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (UKchaos @ Mar 19 2005, 02:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>The demo doesnt make it look good. Its just the half-life grunt turning to jelly and collapsing in a very unrealistic way (legs all bendy). I dont think any of the joints are weighted so the limbs just flail about all over the place <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jed)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Bear in mind that this is a shot of the physics system currently in development and they are still tweaking the IK limits for the ragdolls so that joints behave in a more realistic manner - the un-natural bending of the limbs should be fixed by the time their done.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' />

Freddeh · March 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Negativity @ Mar 19 2005, 10:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Freddeh @ Mar 19 2005, 02:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> 2) What kind of affect would htis have on server performance? How hard would it be to implement in ns as is? Problems such as these would also not encourage the devs to even try and implement it. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
It should be client-side then. There's no need for server-side ragdoll.
 </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
right. duh. Stupid moment of the day <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' />

typical_skeleton · March 2005

UKChaos, did you read the entire news post?

Your comments don't really even make sense, considering this is in the HL1 engine, so any ragdoll physics look better than none. Besides, the demo DOES make it look good, and the news post already states that they're adjusting the limb weight to make it look more realistic, and will remove unnatural bending. I wish this forum had an eyeroll emote so I could use it. =P

Of course, I'm sure it took them a while to do this, and probably a lot of effort... but... why? We already have HL2. =P

Zavaro · March 2005

Hey, that's pretty neat. However, I am unsure how this will affect server performance if used in Modifications. It could be somewhat high performance if you kill 10 guys with a rocketlauncher in Half-Life or Sven Co-Op, as they would all have to fall and flail ragdoll style.

Align · March 2005

This+HL basic physics = dead onos standing upright. And gorges, and lerks.
I remember when lerks rarely played a death animation... It was confusing, because you always wasted the rest of your clip on shooting the body.

Faskalia · March 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zavaro @ Mar 19 2005, 09:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Hey, that's pretty neat. However, I am unsure how this will affect server performance if used in Modifications. It could be somewhat high performance if you kill 10 guys with a rocketlauncher in Half-Life or Sven Co-Op, as they would all have to fall and flail ragdoll style.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Ragdoll is usually client sided, in order to save performance. (UT 2004)
But in HL2 the physics and ragdolls are server sided, hence it weighs really heavy on both client and server.

Most inteligent mod makers will include a cvar to enable server based ragdolls <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' />

Mystiqq · March 2005

I dont see the point of adding ragdoll to hl1, engine that is "few years old".

Its time to move on.

KenHidaka · March 2005

Onos might not be standing. And a gorge shot with a shotgun would tumble. But ragdolls react to bullets hitting them (even when dead) so it's possible that a hail of bullets would knock an Onos over, and send gorges flying clear across the floor. Lerks would be the coolest. They'd be flying, get smoked with a shotgun, and then just slam into the floor or wall in midflight. It'd be awsome.

Condizzle · March 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KenHidaka @ Mar 19 2005, 03:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Lerks would be the coolest. They'd be flying, get smoked with a shotgun, and then just slam into the floor or wall in midflight. It'd be awsome.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Yes! It's always bugged me when I shoot a skulk in midair when he's leaping at me and he just dies and continues forward. It would be nice, but I think it's not important enough to bug the dev team with.

KenHidaka · March 2005

Indeed it's not. But it'd be a nice tweak, regardless of all things.

Ice9 · March 2005

If you did this, you'd also have to add the proper physics engine, so that the ragdolls actually moved and colided in the proper way. Just doing that would be enough to re-write Half-Life, so why bother? Just use Half-Life 2! VALVe didn't make their own physics engine, they used the <a href='http://www.havok.com/' target='_blank'>Havok</a> 2 physics engine.

The bottom line is this:
If you want ragdoll physics, Half-Life 1 isn't the game/engine you want.

Alcapwn · March 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ice9 @ Mar 19 2005, 03:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> If you did this, you'd also have to add the proper physics engine, so that the ragdolls actually moved and colided in the proper way. Just doing that would be enough to re-write Half-Life, so why bother? Just use Half-Life 2! VALVe didn't make their own physics engine, they used the <a href='http://www.havok.com/' target='_blank'>Havok</a> 2 physics engine.

The bottom line is this:
If you want ragdoll physics, Half-Life 1 isn't the game/engine you want.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Phillip sent me the relevant code over from their development and after about and hour or so I'd managed to plug it all in and try it out and I was very impressed! I asked Phillip if I could post something and he agreed so I made a little AVI of a ragdoll from HLMV.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Looks like they already got it working in-game. That was just an AVI file.

Ice9 · March 2005

I wasn't bashing the idea, or making it seem impossible. I was just saying that it's a waste of time, because the physics engine won't be quite as powerful, accurate, or resourceful as the HL2 one.

Negativity · March 2005

They're using the Novodex physics engine....you know Unreal Engine 3.....and the Physics Processing Unit.....

Alcapwn · March 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ice9 @ Mar 19 2005, 04:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I wasn't bashing the idea, or making it seem impossible. I was just saying that it's a waste of time, because the physics engine won't be quite as powerful, accurate, or resourceful as the HL2 one.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
It doesent have to be. Its would probably look better than the death animations we have now. (which sorry to say devs, suck, especially for marines) and im not so sure that it would take that long to implement, if the team puts the code out to the public (like the glow code)

typical_skeleton · March 2005

well, even if they don't totally interact with the world around them, having the models do interesting/cool collapses would still be better than... not having them do that. =P

probably more of a coding exercise or something for future (?) projects... if it was super easy to implement, it'd likely be a "why not" situation. But there's no telling what type of bugs it might bring up..

prsearle · March 2005

Woah, I never expected this to make it to these forums <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /> As one of the guys working on HL:E, I guess I ought to say something...

Yes, we're using Novodex - it's a great library and very powerful. It's not proof-of-concept or future game research - we have it working in-game and the ragdolls interact properly with the world. Explosions throw them around - it's fun <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /> The AVI linked to was taken from the modifed hlmv Jed whipped together for us; we use it to preview models while we're creating the .rag definition files. Currently ragdolls are server-side. We're a single-player mod, so this allows us to have proper hit-reg and save/restore. As others have pointed out, multiplayer games would have to move ragdolls client-side. Thanks for all the encouragement and praise - drop by our <a href='http://www.hl-improvement.com/forums/' target='_blank'>forums</a> sometime.

Ice9 · March 2005

That's my main concern, how it affects preformance. I suppose if it's client-side, and you're able to toggle it, why not. The only thing is that it might not be released for a while, as the NS team may not release another update for Half-Life 1 <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' />

Alcapwn · March 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ice9 @ Mar 19 2005, 07:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> That's my main concern, how it affects preformance. I suppose if it's client-side, and you're able to toggle it, why not. The only thing is that it might not be released for a while, as the NS team may not release another update for Half-Life 1 <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' />  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I guess thats true. but since the NS2, and NS/NS:source teams are now different entities, and its going to get released on My Games (which has autoupdating) we can <i>hope</i> that they might revisit it to fix some bugs, and add this <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' />

Hybridclaw · March 2005

*shifty eyes*

HL2 on the HL1 engine
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

aeroripper · March 2005

I'd rather wait it out for ns:source rather than implementing this into the game. BIG feature addition that i'm sure they don't want to add this late in the development lifecycle especially since they are looking forward to going to ns:source hopefully after 3.1 and maybe very minor releases.

Espresso · March 2005

Pretty interesting <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' />.

mr_drug_lord · March 2005

realistically, bullets do not have knockback capability

we could shoot magical bullets that do however, in NS since it's imaginary and in the future

typical_skeleton · March 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>HL2 on the HL1 engine</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

I thought this project existed.. =P

maniacripper · March 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (mr drug lord @ Mar 19 2005, 10:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> realistically, bullets do not have knockback capability

we could shoot magical bullets that do however, in NS since it's imaginary and in the future  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I beg to differ...

the bodies don't need to fly back and smash into a wall, the ragdoll allows models to react 'realistically' or better yet, 'more realistically' than models which do not use any type of physics.

but i'm interested in these 'magic bullets' you speak of, perhaps they are the cause of your misundertsanding? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' />

PRTe · March 2005

haha. it's pretty impressive really, just that the grunt keeps wobbling like jelly

KenHidaka · March 2005

If you shoot something that's dead, it's going to twitch. Rag dolls do the same thing, drug lord.

One more thing, it'd be pretty much more awsome for marines than anything. Imagine a skulk leap biting into a marines chest and killing him before he hits the ground. You'd pretty much tear in down at the chest, and it would look freakin' pwn. And marines getting gored by an Onos... they'd fly. FLY I SAY! It'd be sweet. Funny stuff to picture in your head.

Ragdoll In Hl 1!

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