Fades Balance Issues.

Umbralla · November 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">Are there any real problems?</div> I have played many hours since the 1.02 patch, My current stats on 1.02 are 777-45. About 770 of those kills are as alien, and most of those kills are using the Fade's Swipe ability.

<a href='http://stats.lanvancouver.com/index.php?mode=players&game=ns' target='_blank'>lanvancouver stats page</a>

I usually go Gorge and secure and build a second hive and a few resource towers, then I go Fade and unleash the fury <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>. For the most part I will use Carapace and Celerity to make a very strong melee fighter Fade. I can run up to 3 LMG marines and kill them all on most occasions. When HMG become involved, I can usually run right into 2 of them and take down 1, and then run or Blink away (Usually not Blink, its not reliable enough to depend on in combat). Of course when HA are incorporated, I depend more on weakening them with Acid Rockets then moving in for the kill when they start to retreat.

Anyways, I hear people whining about Acid Rocket. The fact that it is a perfect accuracy, long range, nice damage, splash, and unlimited ammo make them say that it is extremely unfair... I can't help but agree that they seem overpowered early game, but late game when HA are out they seem fair. Maybe it's just that the teams I'm on are getting the hive out faster then usual? It's usually started in about 10-15 minutes... Anyways does anybody else think that Acid Rockets or even the Fade itself are unbalnaced?

On a different note, on lanvancouver I noticed that the marines had red lasers coming from there heads, and they could in fact aim with these. Is this something that was implemented on all servers or is it a admin enambled thing, or perhaps just something in testing...? The lasers were on the aliens for a few rounds, and looked just ridiculous, but on the marines it looked very cool, and I hope they have/will incorporate it. And also, am I the onyl one who has noticed that Blink is extremely unreliable? Maybe its my connection...

crode · November 2002

most of the time it doesnt blink me or i get stuck in an object. I never use it.

Same with skulks and the leap thing. I get instant death usually 25% of the time so its a risky gamble.

Gwahir · November 2002

I have a little difficulty with blinking, I don't think I use it enough. The one thing that a really good fade does is with see a team of marines, blink right behind them and tear them apart... I usually know it's coming but it still doesn't give me enough time...

Vyvn · November 2002

Blink almost always works perfectly for me, at least that it takes me where I want to go. Of course, many times I end up wedged inside a lift or a building and have to suicide. Leap has never killed me, I don't think.

I use them both more outside of combat, when I simply want to get somewhere faster.

Umbralla · November 2002

for me the blink thing just shows my fade swiping, but rarely actually moves me at all. If I crouch it seems to work about 75% of the time though.... weird? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'>

Wyked · November 2002

i think fades are fine the way they are.. they are easy for new players to use, and can get kills easy, but a good player can take one down without any upgrades.

played one game tonight and i was taking fades out left and right with light armor and a lmg. You have to catch them by suprise (hopefully while they are walking towards what they hope is a target.. motion tracking really helps here) so they have acid as their weapon, get in close so the splash hits them as much as you, and keep dodging, hopping, and spinning. as a hmg you will probably need a partner, but if you dont cross each others lines of fire a fade should fall easy.. just dont run away, remember the fade has stamina problems, even with adrenaline, keep the pressure on, and when the acid starts slowing down drive it to him hard.

ekent · November 2002

Wyked good post. As aliens I play fade exclusively (unless gorges are necessary or something) and I know for a fact that a lmg marine can severly damage me. The problem with fades, I've said it before, is that they trip some psychological button that tells the marines to run away. Running away is exactly what I'd like as a fade because it allows me to attack from a distance with acid rocket and then get out fast if I feel any heat.

I always manage to bottle up the marines inside their base, just me alone, because acid rockets splashing in your spawn area trips them up much more than it actually damages the buildings.

Kyune · November 2002

See, but this is the problem. Most fade-marine encounters are not exactly voluntary, nor are they in an environment conducive to effective marine acrobatics. Read: dodging typically isn't that viable an option. You can count on encountering them alone, but they're so fast that generally if they feel threatened at all they just duck behind corners and splash you wish acid all the way. They're more annoying, than anything.
In numbers though....well, that's just sick.

ekent · November 2002

Kyune, marines should never venture out alone. If you do, there's something wrong. Either you were helping the team out and no one else was or you weren't helping the team. Actually, I would say that if you were alone outside your base you aren't helping the team, even if you're doing what the commander wants you to.

Wyked · November 2002

All i got to say is this, if your fighting a fade, charge. I dont care what your using or have for armor (as long as your near full health and armor.)

Basically you have two choices, hide, or try to kill it. If your going to try to kill it you cant go half measures, you have to run almost straight at it and hope you live through that first barage of acid (its even better if you can take cover from that first barage and then strike out and chase), if you do you have the fade by the neck. Remember, he may have good damage, long range, perfect aim, and splash, but he also has stamina, and he runs through it very fast. Even if your in HA and cant keep up with it, your sure to chase that fade back at least two hallways and he will keep runnin as long as your firing.

Standard Fade tactics are as follows, find a target, shoot a load of acid, duck. Now the fade only ducks for two reasons, he is low on health, or he is out of stamina. In either one of these cases you SHOULD NOT stay where you are and hope you can get him when he comes out again, if he ducks it means he is hurting.

Its not that fades are overpowered, its that they cause so much fear in the marines that no one is willing to chase them down. Believe me when i say its possible, my routine whenever i see a lone fade is to pressure him and not let him get away, because after that first volley, he is finished.

It may not always work, but its garuanteed to be better than holing up and trying to kill it at distance by its rules.

Kyune · November 2002

Sometimes it isn't wise to just send teams of marines to places, particularly for scouting missions--one person can get a LOT done. It's a matter of sending the right person to do the job. In combat, yes, you should definitely have teams of marines fighting with each other. Circumstances don't always allow for that, however.

ekent · November 2002

The right person is pretty rare on the servers I play on. Not to malign anyone's NS "skillz," but there just always seems to be a good skulk in the right place at the right time.

Wyked · November 2002

i hate the skulks that let you think your safe and dont attack till you start building that turret factory.. that pisses me off.. >:|

Destiny · November 2002

heres my tip on fades:

to kill a fade (a pro fade - in pro alien teams):
fades arent that all powerful... btw when aliens got fades, a few HA HMG shd alredy be owning alien scum.
1 ha hmg > 1 fade.. anytime... fades normally just scram. the trick to kill a fade is to be able to guess when he atacks and be ready for him... fades die very quickly to HMG atacks... the reason fades look tuff to kill is becoz they run like girls to defence/hives for healing when they r bleeding a bit.. if u find the same fade raiding your base, u can be quite sure of a nearby place where he can go heal - this is a reason why aliens near bases r usually much tougher (but now the invincible walls of lame (defence) is limited to 3 target heals per tick - so not as effective as before)
with experience, you could even guess where are good spots for mini alien bases setup for raids.
therefore, gather enough firepower (2-3 marines if newly spawned, or get a ha/hmg) and blast off as much hp as possible from the fade, fallback n hide.. and hope he gets greedy and come atack without being fully healed. a good/patient fade will not die to normal encounters wit the blink ability.
to lure fades out, try to setup a base quietly n quickly near their 2nd hive (if they already got the 3rd, u might as well go F4 n chat) - and u will have a bunch of aliens fighting their way to bust ur minibase while not enough time/defences to heal themselves...

during late games, marines without equipment should just go around the phase gates to patrol the areas or hide behind HMG/HAs, they should not go rambo.

Basically all im saying is a good experience of of ur own firepower vs enemy's firepower... most players think a gorge can slowly take out a HA/HMG (which resulted in teams with so many gorges) and marines without any good weops wana take out onos or fades themselves - and such players go cussing about what is overpowered n stuff...

how a fade kills (pro marines, wutever):
Most of a pro fade habits are already roughly explained, basically, dun let urself be stuck in corners where u cant run/blink away quickly and dun go rambo... and think u pwnz a HA/HMG (well.. only sumtimes possible becoz not a lot of pro HA/HMG out there yet..)

this marine combo is sumtiing a fade canot bust easily - 2 to 4 marines with HA/HMG with 1 constantly welding others (taking turns).... its a unbeatable marine combo to me... (marine armor absorb 95% dam.. and tat welder give ur lvl3 290 armor back so freakin fast)

fade - must do hit n run atacks all the time... peek a bile atacks aat turns or gaps, and listen out for grenade coming ur way.
fade to atack a base: must always have a well hidden minibase nearby for quick heals - go beg a gorge - which normally do not work, too many newbie gorges out there - or do what i do, change to gorge to make ur own base n change back (assuming enough RPs n u hide well)

i find bilebombs not very effective on structures.. i rather flush marines out 1st, and swipe structures with melee atack in crouch position and positioning myself for least turret damage... plus goin back n forth for heals...

btw my fade is - adrenaline, carapace, scent of fear..
scent of fear : man ur doing splash damage... u can actually 'see' thru walls without OGC... lolz... u will really own with this.
adren n carapace - obvious reasons.

***
i think i strayed off topic too much lol <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'> .. and i hope i didnt offend too much ppl <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>
anyway i am always the top fragger as alien (with 2nd runner up 20+ frags lower than mine) unless i am gorge most of the time or i joined a losing game (all resources taken, HA/HMGs roaming ard... 1 hive left)... guess im in too many newbie servers lolzz...

anyway, gj dev team... this is incredible... luv u all for keeping naturalselection as a 'org'... u guys earn much more than short term $$ - u guys earnt many a gamer's respect n heart, will alwayz support u guys... maybe i shd go learn bout 3d n mapping to contribute sum lolz... ='' ]

***
go ahead n cuss me... id be hapy to listen =']

Kyune · November 2002

Haha, yeah. Sometimes it's just dumb luck, like when I look somewhere, see nothing, and almost as soon as I turn your back they leap at me and bite me in the **obscenity**--and with my two buddies standing there picking their nose. I had that happen to me quite a few times yesterday, rofl.

Lt_Jose_Jimenez · November 2002

Is it just me or acid rockets do not damage buildings?
And also i'm interested in proper use of Blink; too many times i tried to evade crossfire by blinking, unsuccesfuly dying <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'>

Wyked · November 2002

acid damages, sometimes it just doesnt seem like its doing much :\

and blink.. well... thats something you need to practice with. A lot. And when your an expert at blink you can pull it off about 50/50

xxtaexx · November 2002

it all depends on the situation when your fighting fades.. in close tight quarters where fades dont have a quick route to get out a ha/hmg marine can take him out, but if the fade has a corner or something to block incoming fire the fade wins. You just have to be really persistant and not careless to kill them.. and about blink you you gotta do it correctly to blink. Point a little up with your cursor and make sure nothing's in your way.. if the slightest thing touches your head down to your toes you'll stop in your tracks.

Lt_Jose_Jimenez · November 2002

Also i'm interested in splash radius of acid rocket, and range of blink (how far can you blink?)

Mobay · November 2002

Who Win
3 HMG and 3 FADES.... = THE HMG's..... BUT IF The fades take the HMGG's(last G for guy) 1 by 1 then the fades will win... if the FAdes go Clawing the Fades will wil... IF the MArines surround the FADES THE = MARINES WIN.... Plenty of tactics.... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

SO the fades are not overpowerd..
Neither the Marines

What was that lazer Thing u Talked about...?

Y3ti · November 2002

Said it before and I'll say it again, just reduce the splash damage, I mean it'd make it so that you have to aim more.

And yes I think there is a bug where Acid rocket does sweet little to Turrets, I encountered this while commanding on eclipse and building a row of, 7 turrets. now there was 5 fase outside he right door(thats the marines right, not the commanders) and well those turrets stood, unscratched, until they got rush by 5 fades and 1 onos.

OttoDestruct · November 2002

If bile bomb worked right you probably wouldnt be complaining about acid rocket <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Benolan · November 2002

I have to disagree with some of the posts of fades vs marines...

If a LA/LMG marine charges after a fade, they should die 1 on 1 every time. If the marine gets in close and all the fade keeps doing is launching acid rockets, then the fade deserves to die. But if they use their claws then they should win that pretty easy. Obviously if there's enough running room, the marine can try to keep out of reach. But in close quarters the fade should be able to claw the marine before an LMG kills him.

Against HA/HMG it's a different story, but a Fade can still kill one by himself. I've done it before, and I'm no FPS god.

Anyways, my 2c

Fades Balance Issues.

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