I really haven't played enough to talk balance, but it is deffinently more fun playing aliens now, not just because you win more, but free upgrades and gorges who actually build chambers now. Just good! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
lets make rine upgrades free aswell, while at it. lets remove the rt's!
On a serious note, aliens middlegame is too strong (aka aliens with 2 hives), plus as someone already said, with the free upgrades, they tend to get to that point real fast..
Though i still believe it needs to be played more atm.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ots+Mar 16 2005, 04:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ots @ Mar 16 2005, 04:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> lets make rine upgrades free aswell, while at it. lets remove the rt's!
On a serious note, aliens middlegame is too strong (aka aliens with 2 hives), plus as someone already said, with the free upgrades, they tend to get to that point real fast..
Though i still believe it needs to be played more atm. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> marine upgrades have always been free and automatic.................
My only complaints for this version so far are the knife nerf, the shotgun being buggy again, and the alien structure restrictions (most of the time you have to jump around to drop anything and no more top of the hive DCs <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
My only complaint right now is that taking down a second hive against an organized team that has movement chambers takes A LOT of resources to do without sending in 5 shotguns to hit it while nobody is around. And with fades around the four minute mark, or even a few lerks can cause enough havok to keep marines low on res while the second hive is building. Alien midgame is coming way too early.
<!--QuoteBegin-GoDlol+Mar 9 2005, 01:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (GoDlol @ Mar 9 2005, 01:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have yet to see a marine team beat sensory on hera <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ^^
Quoted for truth.
Some maps are extremely sensory friendly. Mainly hera and tanith.
Seems like free upgrades have had a massive impact as the marine R4K against the skulk has dropped because of the use of the free upgrades. Midgame skulks are now very viable, they no longer have to Totally rely on the skilled fade and/or lerk.
The marines may need something buffed/new midgame to counter this.
I know this isn't I&S but: Shotguns 1/2 price (or some factor) after an upgraded armory.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--QuoteBegin-Emanon+Mar 18 2005, 02:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Emanon @ Mar 18 2005, 02:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Seems like free upgrades have had a massive impact as the marine R4K against the skulk has dropped because of the use of the free upgrades. Midgame skulks are now very viable, they no longer have to Totally rely on the skilled fade and/or lerk.
The marines may need something buffed/new midgame to counter this.
I know this isn't I&S but: Shotguns 1/2 price (or some factor) after an upgraded armory. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Skilled Fades still have the same impact they had in b5, but now they have the added help of upgraded skulks.
Also, isn't this supposed to be a forum for competitive players? If so, why the cheese are random public players posting their idiocy here? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Well early game got better for aliens... Until now aliens had a hard time to counter skilled marine rambos running around the map killing skulks with insane R4K income.
Now with free upgrades skulks got a chance early game and now everyone crys to buff marines up?
Just use teamplay.. get a good commander...
In b5 all a marine team needed to win was to stop the second hive goin up and pwn skulks running around. With marines that are skilled enough you didn'T even need a good comm, it had been enough if he upgraded and dropped meds/ammo/nodes.
Now there is no more easy early-game for marines, now marines need a good comm who can actually think and act, go and life with it -_- Give it some time, i think the new version is balanced pretty good only thing anoying me is the buggy chamber placement sometimes.
<!--QuoteBegin-m4d+Mar 18 2005, 10:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (m4d @ Mar 18 2005, 10:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well early game got better for aliens... Until now aliens had a hard time to counter skilled marine rambos running around the map killing skulks with insane R4K income.
Now with free upgrades skulks got a chance early game and now everyone crys to buff marines up?
Just use teamplay.. get a good commander...
In b5 all a marine team needed to win was to stop the second hive goin up and pwn skulks running around. With marines that are skilled enough you didn'T even need a good comm, it had been enough if he upgraded and dropped meds/ammo/nodes.
Now there is no more easy early-game for marines, now marines need a good comm who can actually think and act, go and life with it -_- Give it some time, i think the new version is balanced pretty good only thing anoying me is the buggy chamber placement sometimes.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin-fanatic+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (fanatic)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, isn't this supposed to be a forum for competitive players? If so, why the cheese are random public players posting their idiocy here? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Ots+Mar 16 2005, 04:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ots @ Mar 16 2005, 04:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> On a serious note, aliens middlegame is too strong (aka aliens with 2 hives), plus as someone already said, with the free upgrades, they tend to get to that point real fast.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> aliens have always been too strong at hive2...
leap skulks + 3.5 second spawn rate = wow....
you need proto tech and a bunch of nodes to hope to counter 2 hives
<!--QuoteBegin-fanatic+Mar 18 2005, 09:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (fanatic @ Mar 18 2005, 09:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Emanon+Mar 18 2005, 02:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Emanon @ Mar 18 2005, 02:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Seems like free upgrades have had a massive impact as the marine R4K against the skulk has dropped because of the use of the free upgrades. Midgame skulks are now very viable, they no longer have to Totally rely on the skilled fade and/or lerk.
The marines may need something buffed/new midgame to counter this.
I know this isn't I&S but: Shotguns 1/2 price (or some factor) after an upgraded armory. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Skilled Fades still have the same impact they had in b5, but now they have the added help of upgraded skulks.
Also, isn't this supposed to be a forum for competitive players? If so, why the cheese are random public players posting their idiocy here? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think this is very pitiful. Just because you don’t know me doesn't mean I'm not competitive and you reiterate the same statement I had made while at the same time demeaning it.
And people wonder why "some" competitive players are not liked. Then ask why there aren’t more competitive players, many like myself just don’t like negativity.
<!--QuoteBegin-Emanon+Mar 18 2005, 02:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Emanon @ Mar 18 2005, 02:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-fanatic+Mar 18 2005, 09:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (fanatic @ Mar 18 2005, 09:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Emanon+Mar 18 2005, 02:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Emanon @ Mar 18 2005, 02:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Seems like free upgrades have had a massive impact as the marine R4K against the skulk has dropped because of the use of the free upgrades. Midgame skulks are now very viable, they no longer have to Totally rely on the skilled fade and/or lerk.
The marines may need something buffed/new midgame to counter this.
I know this isn't I&S but: Shotguns 1/2 price (or some factor) after an upgraded armory. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Skilled Fades still have the same impact they had in b5, but now they have the added help of upgraded skulks.
Also, isn't this supposed to be a forum for competitive players? If so, why the cheese are random public players posting their idiocy here? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think this is very pitiful. Just because you don’t know me doesn't mean I'm not competitive and you reiterate the same statement I had made while at the same time demeaning it.
And people wonder why "some" competitive players are not liked. Then ask why there aren’t more competitive players, many like myself just don’t like negativity.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Your suggestion was bad and wouldn't help the marines at all and it made it seem like you play against newbie alien teams who don't use chambers right or can't hold positions/scout well
also, I don't know if this was a joke or not but it was pretty stupid all the same:
<!--QuoteBegin-Emanon+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Emanon)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->marine upgrades have always been free and automatic.................<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My apologies for dragging this on. <!--QuoteBegin-comrade+Mar 18 2005, 03:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (comrade @ Mar 18 2005, 03:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Your suggestion was bad and wouldn't help the marines at all and it made it seem like you play against newbie alien teams who don't use chambers right or can't hold positions/scout well <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sorry if I am confused but with my suggestion of making SGs 1/2 price after armory upgrade, wouldn't it seem like I am playing with a newbie marine team against a competent alien team? SG's are also the early counter to fades and fast/leaping skulks which now seems to be the big problem midgame. I’m not trying to say this is the only option just defending it from irrational statements.
<!--QuoteBegin-comrade+Mar 18 2005, 03:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (comrade @ Mar 18 2005, 03:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> also, I don't know if this was a joke or not but it was pretty stupid all the same:
<!--QuoteBegin-Emanon+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Emanon)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->marine upgrades have always been free and automatic.................<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Stupid?, this is how the game is now. After the initial research, when marines spawn they get their upgrades automatically and free. I dont see marines spending res or some form of equiping to get armor 1 every time they die. Aliens now have a similar thing: after the initial research IE dropping chambers they are now free but not automatic. Which is how they should stay.
IMO, overall 3.0 final has done a great job on the aliens side as now it is viable in one way or another to use all chambers. The scrims that I take part in are much more enjoyable as we actually have to discuss which chambers to drop inorder to counter what the marines are doing.
It's stupid because he was <b>obviously talking about the initial cost.</b> Arrrrrrrrrrrrgh. Why are you here? Why? Please go away.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In b5 all a marine team needed to win was to stop the second hive goin up and pwn skulks running around.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, and this is <b>exactly the same.</b> Marines have the exact same win path, it's just <i>harder</i> now.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--QuoteBegin-Emanon+Mar 18 2005, 08:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Emanon @ Mar 18 2005, 08:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-fanatic+Mar 18 2005, 09:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (fanatic @ Mar 18 2005, 09:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Emanon+Mar 18 2005, 02:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Emanon @ Mar 18 2005, 02:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Seems like free upgrades have had a massive impact as the marine R4K against the skulk has dropped because of the use of the free upgrades. Midgame skulks are now very viable, they no longer have to Totally rely on the skilled fade and/or lerk.
The marines may need something buffed/new midgame to counter this.
I know this isn't I&S but: Shotguns 1/2 price (or some factor) after an upgraded armory. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Skilled Fades still have the same impact they had in b5, but now they have the added help of upgraded skulks.
Also, isn't this supposed to be a forum for competitive players? If so, why the cheese are random public players posting their idiocy here? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think this is very pitiful. Just because you don’t know me doesn't mean I'm not competitive and you reiterate the same statement I had made while at the same time demeaning it.
And people wonder why "some" competitive players are not liked. Then ask why there aren’t more competitive players, many like myself just don’t like negativity. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I may have been a bit harsh, and I apologize for that. I didn't mean to come off as dismissive. However, I see a lot of people posting in these forums (and elsewhere, even more!) about things they have no clue about. I had hoped that this forum would mostly be for discussion amongst players who play competitive, and know how this works, but as this a public forum, I guess I should just shut up at let it slide.
<!--QuoteBegin-fanatic+Mar 18 2005, 07:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (fanatic @ Mar 18 2005, 07:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I may have been a bit harsh, and I apologize for that. I didn't mean to come off as dismissive. However, I see a lot of people posting in these forums (and elsewhere, even more!) about things they have no clue about. I had hoped that this forum would mostly be for discussion amongst players who play competitive, and know how this works, but as this a public forum, I guess I should just shut up at let it slide.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I understand what kind of rubbish competitive players might see so I'll try to keep my opinions to myself.
<!--QuoteBegin-kavasa+Mar 18 2005, 02:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kavasa @ Mar 18 2005, 02:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In b5 all a marine team needed to win was to stop the second hive goin up and pwn skulks running around.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, and this is <b>exactly the same.</b> Marines have the exact same win path, it's just <i>harder</i> now. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Herein lies the problem we face with this new version...i don't know how many times ive said it but the game was near perfect balance in b5 due to imbalances with aliens early game being too weak and mid to late game too strong. Hence the second hive was basically the turning point.
As said before that is the same, however aliens early game is no longer as weak as it used to be due to innate regen and free and fast upgrades. Those two changes, while seeming miniscule in their own rights, completely improves alien early game nearly to the level of the marine early game. Thus, marines don't have anything to adapt TO, other than the difficulty of the aliens and even stronger mid to late game aliens.
So what is being said by adapt or die? Just suddenly get better aim and perfect tactics and hope nothing gets messed up or the just play teams that are of a much lower skill level?
All of this is from a competetive level standpoint btw...as this IS the competetive forum <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
NS is still very much a res war. With the current build however, the tradeoff of spending res on upgrades to be a stronger player as opposed to saving that res for future upgrades (lifeforms, hives, chambers) has changed the speed at which the alien side can "tech up". Aliens live longer, spend less res, and you see hives and fades on the board much sooner.
This can be contributed to the alien midgame being seen as having too much strength, because the marines cant keep pace with the res flow over time.
I dont feel that the alien side needs any nerfing at all (except, imho, the sensory chamber ITSELF needs some tweaks). Perhaps some sort of boost in hive and fade costs. I do believe however that now the Marine half should seriously be looked at. More options should be open, from a competitive standpoint. Perhaps welders could be researchable, lower the cost of sieges, or maybe give a little more starting res? Im not sure. All I know is that unless the marines hold and dominate the entire map, they cant keep up with the alien tech tree.
<!--QuoteBegin-fanatic+Mar 18 2005, 07:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (fanatic @ Mar 18 2005, 07:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Emanon+Mar 18 2005, 08:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Emanon @ Mar 18 2005, 08:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-fanatic+Mar 18 2005, 09:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (fanatic @ Mar 18 2005, 09:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Emanon+Mar 18 2005, 02:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Emanon @ Mar 18 2005, 02:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Seems like free upgrades have had a massive impact as the marine R4K against the skulk has dropped because of the use of the free upgrades. Midgame skulks are now very viable, they no longer have to Totally rely on the skilled fade and/or lerk.
The marines may need something buffed/new midgame to counter this.
I know this isn't I&S but: Shotguns 1/2 price (or some factor) after an upgraded armory. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Skilled Fades still have the same impact they had in b5, but now they have the added help of upgraded skulks.
Also, isn't this supposed to be a forum for competitive players? If so, why the cheese are random public players posting their idiocy here? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think this is very pitiful. Just because you don’t know me doesn't mean I'm not competitive and you reiterate the same statement I had made while at the same time demeaning it.
And people wonder why "some" competitive players are not liked. Then ask why there aren’t more competitive players, many like myself just don’t like negativity. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I may have been a bit harsh, and I apologize for that. I didn't mean to come off as dismissive. However, I see a lot of people posting in these forums (and elsewhere, even more!) about things they have no clue about. I had hoped that this forum would mostly be for discussion amongst players who play competitive, and know how this works, but as this a public forum, I guess I should just shut up at let it slide. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I dunno with what's all the bashing on poor Eamon here but I've seen him play in game and he's not bad, he'll probably do pretty good in competetive play. Furthermore I think his suggestion of 1/2 shotgun price after an upgraded armory is a valid one.
GrendelAll that is fear...Join Date: 2002-07-19Member: 970Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Playtester
<!--QuoteBegin-digz+Mar 19 2005, 06:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (digz @ Mar 19 2005, 06:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> NS is still very much a res war. With the current build however, the tradeoff of spending res on upgrades to be a stronger player as opposed to saving that res for future upgrades (lifeforms, hives, chambers) has changed the speed at which the alien side can "tech up". Aliens live longer, spend less res, and you see hives and fades on the board much sooner.
This can be contributed to the alien midgame being seen as having too much strength, because the marines cant keep pace with the res flow over time.
I dont feel that the alien side needs any nerfing at all (except, imho, the sensory chamber ITSELF needs some tweaks). Perhaps some sort of boost in hive and fade costs. I do believe however that now the Marine half should seriously be looked at. More options should be open, from a competitive standpoint. Perhaps welders could be researchable, lower the cost of sieges, or maybe give a little more starting res? Im not sure. All I know is that unless the marines hold and dominate the entire map, they cant keep up with the alien tech tree. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If you give marines a resource boost at the start, that should not only provide them with more early game options, but also improve their progression along the tech stick if the 2nd hive does goes up.
It would also lead to much needed diversity in the early marine game. Guaranteed if you rush marine start around the 1 minute mark you can take out the upgrading arms lab and around the 4 minute mark you can take out an advancing armory, and maybe phase tech if the marines delayed it.
Just a thought but couldn't we just give marines the extra 5 armor they need to take 3 skulk bites rather than 2 and that would solve most of the problem of early game being too strong?
I disagree zephor, although maines would require more bites, or a parasite plus 2 bites, I dont feel making the vanilla marine a stronger unit will solve the problem of lack of flexability in marines. If you need more armor, you spend the res and get more armor. If skulks need an advantage, they drop chambers (spend res) and get that advantage.
<!--QuoteBegin-Grendel+Mar 23 2005, 11:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grendel @ Mar 23 2005, 11:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you give marines a resource boost at the start, that should not only provide them with more early game options, but also improve their progression along the tech stick if the 2nd hive does goes up.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> How about looking at it the other way? Reduce starting res by 5 and res needed to gorge to 5. It would slow down the early fade and 2nd hive, pretty much slowing down the alien midgame.
(These numbers are just arbitrary)
My suggestion would just keep the game in its current state, but I do like yours as it has more options!
I think it's still too early to tell. New strategies are being devised and I haven't seen pure dominance on either side with any consistency. Cheating is also still a big problem, moreso on pubs than competitive, but let's face it, pubs are where most of the people play, and where a single skilled person with cheats can swing an entire game alone.
<!--QuoteBegin-digz+Mar 23 2005, 04:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (digz @ Mar 23 2005, 04:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I disagree zephor, although maines would require more bites, or a parasite plus 2 bites, I dont feel making the vanilla marine a stronger unit will solve the problem of lack of flexability in marines. If you need more armor, you spend the res and get more armor. If skulks need an advantage, they drop chambers (spend res) and get that advantage. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> why not, the aliens can take an extra bullet, why not make it so marine can take an extra parasight
Comments
Just good! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
On a serious note, aliens middlegame is too strong (aka aliens with 2 hives), plus as someone already said, with the free upgrades, they tend to get to that point real fast..
Though i still believe it needs to be played more atm.
On a serious note, aliens middlegame is too strong (aka aliens with 2 hives), plus as someone already said, with the free upgrades, they tend to get to that point real fast..
Though i still believe it needs to be played more atm. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
marine upgrades have always been free and automatic.................
^^
Quoted for truth.
Some maps are extremely sensory friendly.
Mainly hera and tanith.
The marines may need something buffed/new midgame to counter this.
I know this isn't I&S but:
Shotguns 1/2 price (or some factor) after an upgraded armory.
The marines may need something buffed/new midgame to counter this.
I know this isn't I&S but:
Shotguns 1/2 price (or some factor) after an upgraded armory. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Skilled Fades still have the same impact they had in b5, but now they have the added help of upgraded skulks.
Also, isn't this supposed to be a forum for competitive players? If so, why the cheese are random public players posting their idiocy here? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Until now aliens had a hard time to counter skilled marine rambos running around the map killing skulks with insane R4K income.
Now with free upgrades skulks got a chance early game and now everyone crys to buff marines up?
Just use teamplay.. get a good commander...
In b5 all a marine team needed to win was to stop the second hive goin up and pwn skulks running around. With marines that are skilled enough you didn'T even need a good comm, it had been enough if he upgraded and dropped meds/ammo/nodes.
Now there is no more easy early-game for marines, now marines need a good comm who can actually think and act, go and life with it -_-
Give it some time, i think the new version is balanced pretty good only thing anoying me is the buggy chamber placement sometimes.
Until now aliens had a hard time to counter skilled marine rambos running around the map killing skulks with insane R4K income.
Now with free upgrades skulks got a chance early game and now everyone crys to buff marines up?
Just use teamplay.. get a good commander...
In b5 all a marine team needed to win was to stop the second hive goin up and pwn skulks running around. With marines that are skilled enough you didn'T even need a good comm, it had been enough if he upgraded and dropped meds/ammo/nodes.
Now there is no more easy early-game for marines, now marines need a good comm who can actually think and act, go and life with it -_-
Give it some time, i think the new version is balanced pretty good only thing anoying me is the buggy chamber placement sometimes.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-fanatic+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (fanatic)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, isn't this supposed to be a forum for competitive players? If so, why the cheese are random public players posting their idiocy here? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
aliens have always been too strong at hive2...
leap skulks + 3.5 second spawn rate = wow....
you need proto tech and a bunch of nodes to hope to counter 2 hives
The marines may need something buffed/new midgame to counter this.
I know this isn't I&S but:
Shotguns 1/2 price (or some factor) after an upgraded armory. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Skilled Fades still have the same impact they had in b5, but now they have the added help of upgraded skulks.
Also, isn't this supposed to be a forum for competitive players? If so, why the cheese are random public players posting their idiocy here? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this is very pitiful. Just because you don’t know me doesn't mean I'm not competitive and you reiterate the same statement I had made while at the same time demeaning it.
And people wonder why "some" competitive players are not liked. Then ask why there aren’t more competitive players, many like myself just don’t like negativity.
The marines may need something buffed/new midgame to counter this.
I know this isn't I&S but:
Shotguns 1/2 price (or some factor) after an upgraded armory. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Skilled Fades still have the same impact they had in b5, but now they have the added help of upgraded skulks.
Also, isn't this supposed to be a forum for competitive players? If so, why the cheese are random public players posting their idiocy here? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this is very pitiful. Just because you don’t know me doesn't mean I'm not competitive and you reiterate the same statement I had made while at the same time demeaning it.
And people wonder why "some" competitive players are not liked. Then ask why there aren’t more competitive players, many like myself just don’t like negativity.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your suggestion was bad and wouldn't help the marines at all and it made it seem like you play against newbie alien teams who don't use chambers right or can't hold positions/scout well
also, I don't know if this was a joke or not but it was pretty stupid all the same:
<!--QuoteBegin-Emanon+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Emanon)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->marine upgrades have always been free and automatic.................<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-comrade+Mar 18 2005, 03:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (comrade @ Mar 18 2005, 03:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Your suggestion was bad and wouldn't help the marines at all and it made it seem like you play against newbie alien teams who don't use chambers right or can't hold positions/scout well
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry if I am confused but with my suggestion of making SGs 1/2 price after armory upgrade, wouldn't it seem like I am playing with a newbie marine team against a competent alien team? SG's are also the early counter to fades and fast/leaping skulks which now seems to be the big problem midgame. I’m not trying to say this is the only option just defending it from irrational statements.
<!--QuoteBegin-comrade+Mar 18 2005, 03:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (comrade @ Mar 18 2005, 03:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
also, I don't know if this was a joke or not but it was pretty stupid all the same:
<!--QuoteBegin-Emanon+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Emanon)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->marine upgrades have always been free and automatic.................<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Stupid?, this is how the game is now.
After the initial research, when marines spawn they get their upgrades automatically and free. I dont see marines spending res or some form of equiping to get armor 1 every time they die. Aliens now have a similar thing: after the initial research IE dropping chambers they are now free but not automatic. Which is how they should stay.
IMO, overall 3.0 final has done a great job on the aliens side as now it is viable in one way or another to use all chambers. The scrims that I take part in are much more enjoyable as we actually have to discuss which chambers to drop inorder to counter what the marines are doing.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In b5 all a marine team needed to win was to stop the second hive goin up and pwn skulks running around.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, and this is <b>exactly the same.</b> Marines have the exact same win path, it's just <i>harder</i> now.
The marines may need something buffed/new midgame to counter this.
I know this isn't I&S but:
Shotguns 1/2 price (or some factor) after an upgraded armory. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Skilled Fades still have the same impact they had in b5, but now they have the added help of upgraded skulks.
Also, isn't this supposed to be a forum for competitive players? If so, why the cheese are random public players posting their idiocy here? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this is very pitiful. Just because you don’t know me doesn't mean I'm not competitive and you reiterate the same statement I had made while at the same time demeaning it.
And people wonder why "some" competitive players are not liked. Then ask why there aren’t more competitive players, many like myself just don’t like negativity. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I may have been a bit harsh, and I apologize for that. I didn't mean to come off as dismissive. However, I see a lot of people posting in these forums (and elsewhere, even more!) about things they have no clue about. I had hoped that this forum would mostly be for discussion amongst players who play competitive, and know how this works, but as this a public forum, I guess I should just shut up at let it slide.
Forums are there to discuss and not to start a flame-war like "OMG I'M E133T AND YOU ARE NOT SO GO AND DIE IN SOME LONE PLACE11!!"
<span style='color:red'>This kind of thing doesn't help matters much either.</span>
I understand what kind of rubbish competitive players might see so I'll try to keep my opinions to myself.
Maybe I'll see you in Cal next season.
Yes, and this is <b>exactly the same.</b> Marines have the exact same win path, it's just <i>harder</i> now. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Herein lies the problem we face with this new version...i don't know how many times ive said it but the game was near perfect balance in b5 due to imbalances with aliens early game being too weak and mid to late game too strong. Hence the second hive was basically the turning point.
As said before that is the same, however aliens early game is no longer as weak as it used to be due to innate regen and free and fast upgrades. Those two changes, while seeming miniscule in their own rights, completely improves alien early game nearly to the level of the marine early game. Thus, marines don't have anything to adapt TO, other than the difficulty of the aliens and even stronger mid to late game aliens.
So what is being said by adapt or die? Just suddenly get better aim and perfect tactics and hope nothing gets messed up or the just play teams that are of a much lower skill level?
All of this is from a competetive level standpoint btw...as this IS the competetive forum <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
This can be contributed to the alien midgame being seen as having too much strength, because the marines cant keep pace with the res flow over time.
I dont feel that the alien side needs any nerfing at all (except, imho, the sensory chamber ITSELF needs some tweaks). Perhaps some sort of boost in hive and fade costs. I do believe however that now the Marine half should seriously be looked at. More options should be open, from a competitive standpoint. Perhaps welders could be researchable, lower the cost of sieges, or maybe give a little more starting res? Im not sure. All I know is that unless the marines hold and dominate the entire map, they cant keep up with the alien tech tree.
The marines may need something buffed/new midgame to counter this.
I know this isn't I&S but:
Shotguns 1/2 price (or some factor) after an upgraded armory. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Skilled Fades still have the same impact they had in b5, but now they have the added help of upgraded skulks.
Also, isn't this supposed to be a forum for competitive players? If so, why the cheese are random public players posting their idiocy here? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this is very pitiful. Just because you don’t know me doesn't mean I'm not competitive and you reiterate the same statement I had made while at the same time demeaning it.
And people wonder why "some" competitive players are not liked. Then ask why there aren’t more competitive players, many like myself just don’t like negativity. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I may have been a bit harsh, and I apologize for that. I didn't mean to come off as dismissive. However, I see a lot of people posting in these forums (and elsewhere, even more!) about things they have no clue about. I had hoped that this forum would mostly be for discussion amongst players who play competitive, and know how this works, but as this a public forum, I guess I should just shut up at let it slide. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dunno with what's all the bashing on poor Eamon here but I've seen him play in game and he's not bad, he'll probably do pretty good in competetive play. Furthermore I think his suggestion of 1/2 shotgun price after an upgraded armory is a valid one.
This can be contributed to the alien midgame being seen as having too much strength, because the marines cant keep pace with the res flow over time.
I dont feel that the alien side needs any nerfing at all (except, imho, the sensory chamber ITSELF needs some tweaks). Perhaps some sort of boost in hive and fade costs. I do believe however that now the Marine half should seriously be looked at. More options should be open, from a competitive standpoint. Perhaps welders could be researchable, lower the cost of sieges, or maybe give a little more starting res? Im not sure. All I know is that unless the marines hold and dominate the entire map, they cant keep up with the alien tech tree. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you give marines a resource boost at the start, that should not only provide them with more early game options, but also improve their progression along the tech stick if the 2nd hive does goes up.
If you give marines a resource boost at the start, that should not only provide them with more early game options, but also improve their progression along the tech stick if the 2nd hive does goes up.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about looking at it the other way? Reduce starting res by 5 and res needed to gorge to 5. It would slow down the early fade and 2nd hive, pretty much slowing down the alien midgame.
(These numbers are just arbitrary)
My suggestion would just keep the game in its current state, but I do like yours as it has more options!
why not, the aliens can take an extra bullet, why not make it so marine can take an extra parasight