Seriously, What's The Deal?
Rapier7
Join Date: 2004-02-05 Member: 26108Members
Join Date: 2004-02-05 Member: 26108Members
<div class="IPBDescription">With cloaking, that is.</div> Why do so many people complain that cloaking takes the fun out of NS and that an invisible enemy sucks?
I think people should amend the statement "cloaking takes the fun out of NS" and change it to "cloaking takes the fun out of NS for rambos and stupid commanders". Teamwork and smart commanding can easily counter sensory, assuming your marines are halfway competent.
I think people should amend the statement "cloaking takes the fun out of NS" and change it to "cloaking takes the fun out of NS for rambos and stupid commanders". Teamwork and smart commanding can easily counter sensory, assuming your marines are halfway competent.
Comments
I think people should amend the statement "cloaking takes the fun out of NS" and change it to "cloaking takes the fun out of NS for rambos and stupid commanders". Teamwork and smart commanding can easily counter sensory, assuming your marines are halfway competent. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because in a 6v6, you rarely have more than 2 people getting one node at a time. So the 'rambos' you have getting all your res get raped.
It also renders sight - the primary human sense - all but useless. Ask most people on the planet which sense they would rather loose: sight or hearing. The vast majority will choose to go deaf rather than blind, simply because we rely on our eyes so much.
I'd rather be killed by someone because of skill (ie: he knows a good ambush point, can bunnyhop very well, knows how to leap-bite, etc.) rather than by someone who relies on an upgrade to removes 95% skill from skulking. If cloaking was removed I'd wager that, in general, skulking skills would increase across the board.
Pro-cloaking people argue that cloaking increases 'atmosphere.' Perhaps that is the case for you, but I think fighting invisible enemies is simply frustraing. You want to know what I think would be a better, more 'atmospheric,' upgrade than cloaking? Something that stops MT. I'd be a hell of a lot more scared if I knew my MT wasn't perfect, but I wouldn't loose the use of my eyes.
Another argument that pro-cloakers have is "it's not effective if there is more than one marine!" & "it's anti rambo!" This is not true. Cloaking is <u>less</u> effective with multiple marines - but it is not negated. As I said earlier, even though I can have two other guys with me, that skulk stands a very good chance of getting off the 2-3 bites it needs to kill me. So what if my teammates then blast it? Our 3-man fireteam is down to two, then to one, and then none. All of which is done by free units with a free upgrade. As Alkiller also pointed out, in 6v6 that 'rambo' is often a marine getting oh-so-vital res for his comm - <i>which he is supposed to be doing for the good of the team!</i> So how is that ramboing?
The third pro-claok argument I hear is that it "can be completely voided by scan or observatories." Since when? I'd REALLY like to know how I missed that memo. Unless the comm drops Obs all over the map (which is insanely costly in terms of resources and the manpower to build, guard and maintain the things) or builds multiple obs and scans heavily (again, taking a lot of res, marine work and an excessive ammount of mircomanegment work by the comm), SCs and cloaking make life hell for marines.
Interesting. So I take it that means you think clan teams that use sensory can't play the skulk well?
Just as aliens build a sensory chamber near critical choke points (so they can get focus and still be cloaked), so should marine commanders build observatories at critical points once they know that sensory is the upgrade of the day.
It is still hard for marines to overcome sensory and advance to the middle/late game when it's not as powerful. However, the rule was supposed to be "marines need to work as a team and play well to win", not "marines steamroll all but the best alien teams".
The fact that sensory is not THE chamber of choice for aliens indicates to me that it is NOT overly strong.
But you can only have cloak AND focus when you are NEAR to a sensory chamber.
So either you find it and kill it, or you put an observatory nearby. (Or just get a phase past it.)
Just jack your gamma up and look carefully before walking down that long hall.
Anyways, i'm way off topic on why I originally posted. People keep referring to people going out on their own as ramboing. What they need to realize is that ramboing is more appropriately when someone goes off on their own, <i>against the commander's orders, or to serve no purpose other than personal K:D ratio</i>. If a marine goes out alone with valid purpose, then what have they done wrong? Early game res harvesters, and PG planters especially are noted for that. And Cloaking does desperately interfere with that in pub play. how many marines do you think will get killed by a skulk early game camping a res node near MS, cloaked? since they tend to lack communcation, i'd wager at least 3-4 go to that spot to die, before enough of hte team gets the problem.
He hasn't adjusted his tactics to match the enemy's.
EDIT: Corrected grammar.
I also fail to see how cloaking could possibly promote teamwork, anyone halfway decent at playing skulk can get cloaking by itself and get 1 marine out of a group of 3+ even if they cover each other.
He hasn't adjusted his tactics to match the enemy's.
EDIT: Corrected grammar. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
True. Once cloaking is known, the tactics should adapt..as they always should once the chambers are known. But my point there was against the commonly taken definition of ramboing, not against cloaking.
<!--QuoteBegin-RBS+ Mar 30 2005, 09:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RBS @ Mar 30 2005, 09:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I also fail to see how cloaking could possibly promote teamwork, anyone halfway decent at playing skulk can get cloaking by itself and get 1 marine out of a group of 3+ even if they cover each other.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It does promote teamwork, but not in the way that rines are used to. For rines, moving in teams is always best, since any given rine is both combatant and builder. But for the Kharaa, jobs are chosen with the different alien races. a single cloaked skulk can kill single rines, and sometimes pairs, several times, thus helping his team by limiting their movement, and never letting them get to the poor gorges.
As for cloaking and focus, that's only a problem if there are sensory chambers nearby. Which requires a gorge as well as the skulks to make use of it. So send a few rines out, and kill the sensory chamber.
If it's a CO situation, then that is balanced by the fact that the cloaking and silence are 3 points they won't have later on. Fades and lerks would likely get good use out of focus, but i don't think many would prefer cloaking to any of the movement or defensive ups, and i don't think an onos would want either of them over other upgrades for their points.
I wouldn't cheer if cloaking was removed, but i wouldn't exactly let our a cry of agony either. I tend to prefer other upgrades, but it doesn't bother me.
Most commanders I see doing anything with obs is usuallly upgrade phasegates or motion instantly, which renders them unable to scan for marines when they need it desperately. They still don't drop another obs, either because they think they dont need to, dont have res, or dont know to.
In short, it seems to me that fighting the sensory chamber first can really only be done by experienced commanders. Theres nothing you can do other than know how to beat them before hand. The other chambers dont require the commander to do anything out of the normal, just upgrade and expand, no need for extra observatories or scanning all the time.
This is just me though, even good commanders refuse to dispense scans on request when it is now known that the aliens have chosen sensory.
It's all the whiners that are so set in their rut of defending against Defense first that can't manage to change their tactics.
Cloaking just means the Comm needs to actually use Sensor Sweep for more than a siege attack, and build Obs at mini-bases. Adapt or die. Those who can't adapt are the ones whining about Sensory being overpowered.
It's all the whiners that are so set in their rut of defending against Defense first that can't manage to change their tactics.
Cloaking just means the Comm needs to actually use Sensor Sweep for more than a siege attack, and build Obs at mini-bases. Adapt or die. Those who can't adapt are the ones whining about Sensory being overpowered. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
hehe you're funny