Why Does Eon Get No Love?
Apos
Join Date: 2003-06-14 Member: 17369Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-06-14 Member: 17369Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">altair too: they aren't bad maps!</div> I don't understand the hate for altair and eon. Both maps are just fine, and better: they're new. I know people have opinions about one or the other being alien biased. But the reality is that I've seen both sides win on these maps: they require different strategies, to be sure, but the idea that they are stacked one team or another, while it might have some small validity, is, I think mostly just people who can't adapt to change. Yes, tanith is a great map. And the strats for tanith are important. But eon and altair are their own maps. Adapt. I hate seeing altair and eon voted down just because people have the perception that they are alien biased or whatever. 3.0F gives the edge to aliens, period. And that's sort of cool, because it makes the challenge be on the marines. But it isn't the fault of eon or altair simply because htey are new and they came out when aliens were on top. Stop blaming them. They are well designed maps, and they will get even better in time. Stop voting them down! I want new fun!
Comments
As for altair, I don't think it's a bad map, but it doesn't have a discrete, unique set of rooms that, say, tanith has. If you look at a tanith screenshot, you instantly know exactly where you are and exactly what the name of the room is, even if you're in a vent. Altair doesn't have that.
As for balance, I haven't noticed either one of them being heavily biased towards one side or the other, but I'm just a pubber.
<Shockwave^> For some reason, the instant you ask players to behave differently to be successful, they associate that with bad mapping.
My first experiences of NS were on caged and bast, I think in 1.04. I didn't play very much until about 3b4, so tanith is hardly the first map I've played, or even a map that I've played the most.
Too easy to stop human expanding, in the begining.
Especially, if first chamber is a sens.
Alien's map.
Everything else is crusty and stale.
Big :P's
Everything else is crusty and stale.
Big <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->'s <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lies, Origin stll rocks <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And i always vote altair/eon/bast when they turn up in the map vote <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<Shockwave^> For some reason, the instant you ask players to behave differently to be successful, they associate that with bad mapping. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think its because the authors are KFDM and Olmy.
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
i havent really played the new altair though :o
ps: orbital for official map now!
you can find it in the files section for NS at the <a href='http://www.caleague.com/?division=nso' target='_blank'>CAL</a> site
you can find it in the files section for NS at the <a href='http://www.caleague.com/?division=nso' target='_blank'>CAL</a> site <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's a map also created primarily to play well not to look good, it makes my little mapper inside cringe.
you can find it in the files section for NS at the <a href='http://www.caleague.com/?division=nso' target='_blank'>CAL</a> site <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's a map also created primarily to play well not to look good, it makes my little mapper inside cringe. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i suppose tanith does that to you as well then?
besides, its the guys first map.. give him a break.
i mean its not the prettiest map ever but it not seige007.
i think most mappers have a thing or two to learn about playtesting and responding to user feedback. the fact that i was able to create a map that has been embraced by the competetive community , even tho it was my goal its still suprising. when was the last time that happened?
oh and back on topic. eon is nice but its feels hard too learn because areas of the maps aren't visually distinct from each other. the same shiny metal everywhere and similar lighting throughout. i'm always looking at the map to see where i am and where i'm going
Too easy to stop human expanding, in the begining.
Especially, if first chamber is a sens.
Alien's map. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude, where have you been? Its 3.0F, all maps are easy to stop marine expansion with sensory.
well if you belvie in love at first sight yeh, some people should love Eon allready.Others love takes a little longer <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> .
But i like new things so if a vote comes up i always vote for Eon just to be gorge and look at the architecture.
Of course, in that eon feedback thread there was a great map for node redistribution that would probably make the map a lot better for marines, so it's not like the map is beyond help. Once that change happens, eon will be in the same boat as altair - a lack of distinctiveness. Both maps have good marine starts and 2 hives that are memorable enough, but after that there are very few rooms that are actually distinguishable from each other. Coincidentally, it is the bottom-most hive on both maps that needs a little touching up.
Altair to me isn't too bad, but just is a bit too near the "average" bracket for me to ever rave about playing it. Eon is just a monotony of coridoors to me <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
However it is sad to see that people will flagrantly abuse these two maps when they ignore flaws with maps like Ayumi (AE35 hive specifically) and the rather boring nature that maps could have when double res points are around...
Maps like tanith and hera have rooms that both flow into each other, and only rarely require corridors of any kind of length. Most importantly, the battles take place in the rooms, not in the corridors connecting the rooms. Eon and altair, on the other hand, have far more corridors connecting far smaller rooms. Fewer and smaller rooms means that 1) the entire map feels claustrophobic, and 2) there are fewer memorable places, areas that show off the map's theme, things like that.
Talking specifically about eon (because monkey has already heard my suggestions for altair), first of all, you need to open the middle of the map out. It's all small corridors leading up to the hive. There needs to be some area where marines can gain a foothold before assaulting a hive (think holoroom in hera, though it doesn't have to be that big). I would suggest playing with the elevation of the map to open new areas up, because it's rather crowded all on one level.
Second of all, don't touch core or <insert name of top hive>. They're beautiful, well done, move on.
Also, and I said it before, move the nodes around. It's a miracle if the marines hold even 3 nodes without electrification in this map; more than that is impossible without capturing a hive (most likely core).
Let´s take eclipse or evil: Although I only play since 2.0 I can´t see that maps anymore. I played them so much, that they are getting very boring, always the same boring tactics.
Now there are a lot of new maps, like agora, altair or eon (and nancy, because I only play since 2.0).
New maps means new things and new tactics to try out.
for expample origin , it very easy to learn and is very memorable.of course theres a tradeoff with trying to create a visual style/theme. but i think there is a middle ground that was acommplished with eclipse and veil.
and your right some ppl arent inclined or are irritated by learning new maps but there are design choices that can be made to make it less difficlut
also i think corridors conecting to more corridors is bad. makes it feel like you in a maze.
distinctiveness is like.. hmm, i'll be simple. hives tend to be lit differently, well, in the halls and rooms around that hive, u should have a feeling that your gettin close to the hive. thats what ppl talk about when they say the room flow to eachother. like, some lights have a different shade. majority of it is in the lighting, altair needs a major workover in the lighting. sry kfdm if u say u already did that, u made clsoe to no progress.. eon is just sufferin from that new map feel. learnin the way around, but the architecture of every room is different, so u can after a while get a feel for things.
and i just thought of this, maybe the reason most ppl dont like altair, is cause it gives off a very gloomy, cold, lonely feeling. that may apeal to like. 20% of the community, it will turn most away. if this was your goal, to make it gloomy and such, well, u did it, but it doesn't make a very attractive and likable map.