Beyond Words
BadKarma
The Advanced Literature monsters burned my house and gave me a 7 Join Date: 2002-11-12 Member: 8260Members
The Advanced Literature monsters burned my house and gave me a 7 Join Date: 2002-11-12 Member: 8260Members
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">Extremely Graphic</div> Literally speechless. This footage has affected me deeply, I really have no words.
If any mod deems this innapropriate, I totally understand. That said,
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>EXTREME VIOLENCE, NOT FOR FAINT OF HEART</span>
Ive skinned and cleaned animals before but this is beyond the pale.
<a href='http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video.asp?video=fur_farm&Player=qt&speed=_med' target='_blank'>http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video.asp?vi...r=qt&speed=_med</a>
If any mod deems this innapropriate, I totally understand. That said,
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>EXTREME VIOLENCE, NOT FOR FAINT OF HEART</span>
Ive skinned and cleaned animals before but this is beyond the pale.
<a href='http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video.asp?video=fur_farm&Player=qt&speed=_med' target='_blank'>http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video.asp?vi...r=qt&speed=_med</a>
Comments
Screwed up priorities? I think so!
Screwed up priorities? I think so! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hardly! Battered women have made choices that got them into their situation (and kept them there for that matter). Animals don't get to make those choices.
I condemned this the last time and I condemn it now. Any human capable of that sort of cruelty should be shot, it's a far more merciful death then they deserve.
I completely agree with you on this. Extremist only turn me away from causes.
On a side note, im against killing and skinning an animal soley for its fur. If you are going to kill an animal (rodents excluded) at least eat it.
Screwed up priorities? I think so! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hardly! Battered women have made choices that got them into their situation (and kept them there for that matter). Animals don't get to make those choices. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Legionnaired, it may be because there are more animals that need shelters than women that need shelters.
Skulkbait, you should be ashamed of yourself for making that comment.
CWAG, without the shock effect, not very many people would listen. I normally don't like PETA, but I think this video is completely justified, given the barbaric nature of the crimes perpetrated in it. I don't think it's over the top, at all.
I don't see why. Humans are capable of understanding the situations they are in and the consequences of those decisions. Furthermore, humans have legal rights that allow them to remedy the situaltion. Animals don't. They don't have the option of not being owned by an ****, of being born and trained to fight for their master's amusement. They need help because they can't help themselves.
I'm not ashamed of my statement.
I don't see why. Humans are capable of understanding the situations they are in and the consequences of those decisions. Furthermore, humans have legal rights that allow them to remedy the situaltion. Animals don't. They don't have the option of not being owned by an ****, of being born and trained to fight for their master's amusement. They need help because they can't help themselves.
I'm not ashamed of my statement. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Women don't know their boyfriends will abuse them until they do abuse them. The boyfriends are often psychologically controlling, convincing women that it's their fault. It's not something that women enter into knowingly.
I disagree. Most women are perfectly capable of knowing how these people will behave when they've been with them for a while, their friends usually realise it and tell them so, yet these women, at some level, choose to ignore the blindingly obvious.
But this is getting offtopic.
I disagree. Most women are perfectly capable of knowing how these people will behave when they've been with them for a while, their friends usually realise it and tell them so, yet these women, at some level, choose to ignore the blindingly obvious.
But this is getting offtopic. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't believe you feel that way. I know you devalue people a lot in many of your posts, but to go to that extent...
I disagree. Most women are perfectly capable of knowing how these people will behave when they've been with them for a while, their friends usually realise it and tell them so, yet these women, at some level, choose to ignore the blindingly obvious.
But this is getting offtopic. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't believe you feel that way. I know you devalue people a lot in many of your posts, but to go to that extent... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with SkulkBait, to an extent. Just replace 'most' with 'many', since 'most women' is just <i>way</i> too big a generalization.
As for the topic - that video made me feel bad. Really bad. Videos on the internet never make me feel bad, but that one did. How can anyone do that to a living creature, I can only wonder.
<!--QuoteBegin-Vaaryys+Apr 5 2005, 01:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Vaaryys @ Apr 5 2005, 01:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As for the topic - that video made me feel bad. Really bad. Videos on the internet never make me feel bad, but that one did. How can anyone do that to a living creature, I can only wonder.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. Why didn't they kill it first. It didn't do anything wrong. Just a little bit of mercy, that's all it could ask. But no one cared.
<!--QuoteBegin-BadKarma+Apr 4 2005, 10:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BadKarma @ Apr 4 2005, 10:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>EXTREME VIOLENCE, NOT FOR FAINT OF HEART</span><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I should have listened.
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> According to your statement most women are not educated enough to have minds of their own. Do you really feel that way? In case that you do: What experience created that oppinion of yours?
Imo humans should be raised to become free thinkers, witheout any limitations except the ones that they make up for themselves. (I know that this is ideal and will actually never work 100%)
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> According to your statement most women are not educated enough to have minds of their own. Do you really feel that way? In case that you do: What experience created that oppinion of yours?
Imo humans should be raised to become free thinkers, witheout any limitations except the ones that they make up for themselves. (I know that this is ideal and will actually never work 100%) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you think the boyfriends go around hitting women in clubs? Or do you think they start hitting the women after they've known each other for a while?
It has very little to do with education or free will. Very few women would choose to be with someone who abuses them (and their not the ones who develop psychological problems). Thus, it's not a free choice that the women make, it's a bad situation that they unlucky stumbled into. I think that people should be able to excercise their free will, but I also think that people shouldn't be taken advantage of, because they made a choice based upon incomplete information.
I should have phrased my sentences better. I was making a blanket statment about women in general, when I should have referred to women that are being abused. For that, I apologize. However, I still think it is awful to blame the women for being in an abusive relationship.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, it is awful to blame the passiv person of an abuse "alone".
Yet there are laws, police and other institutions that anyone who is feeling abused can come to and seek for help. This is why i am stating that humans need to know their rights and what to do when those right get violated.
You cannot blame a woman for beeing abused, but you can blame her for not doing anything about it.
The first time it happens a woman should be smart enough to realise that shes with an **** and leave him. If she doesn't then its her fault when it happens again (not that it isn't also, and mostly, his fault).
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
It has very little to do with education or free will. Very few women would choose to be with someone who abuses them (and their not the ones who develop psychological problems). Thus, it's not a free choice that the women make, it's a bad situation that they unlucky stumbled into.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Stumbled into, couldn't see it for what it was, failed to walk out of when it was obvious what was going on, ect.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think that people should be able to excercise their free will, but I also think that people shouldn't be taken advantage of, because they made a choice based upon incomplete information.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They don't ahve incomplete information. The first time they are hit they know all that they need know. There are usually very obvious signs before that that even their friends will notice and mention.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I should have phrased my sentences better. I was making a blanket statment about women in general, when I should have referred to women that are being abused. For that, I apologize. However, I still think it is awful to blame the women for being in an abusive relationship.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is, in part, their fault.
And this is not the topic at hand, so lets move on.
As for the women's abuse thing, let me make a statement:
If you've taken any course in Psychology (as I have), you go through many discussions on this. Here is what's generally accepted as true by the psychological community regarding this horrific topic:
Women (or men) who get into abusive relationships usually do not choose to do so. The relationship usually starts out wonderfully. Things are great. Then they deteriorate. She starts getting yelled at, blamed, hit, or worse. She starts to take fault for his anger, and remembers "back when" and think that if they hold on for longer, things will get better, because they used to be better! People can tell them as much as they want that they're in an abusive relationship, but there's always an excuse. Then, if/when the realization has seeped in, there's fear to leave. They get threats that if they ever leave, their partner will kill themself, or that they'll find them and kill them, etc.
So should we say that it's a woman's fault? No.
Should we say it's the abuser's fault? To an extent. They'll mentally ill people who need severe help.
I hope this helps clear up this matter. I was VERY generic, as the description used was to define a broad set of experiences.
And if you're wondering how much validity I have; I'm battling my own mental illness and am very involved with Mental Health rights and such. I've been in therapy for a long time and I've done my research, including taking a class on the subject.
I hope some of you can take a somewhat more objective look at abuse, as it can happen to men as well as women. It doesn't matter who it happens to, it's wrong. And even if women were to know and be able to get out of it doesn't mean we should allow it. Unless you've been in that situation, you don't know.
Screwed up priorities? I think so! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hardly! Battered women have made choices that got them into their situation (and kept them there for that matter). Animals don't get to make those choices.
I condemned this the last time and I condemn it now. Any human capable of that sort of cruelty should be shot, it's a far more merciful death then they deserve. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='color:red'>*edited*
personal insults are not tolerated.</span>
Do you have any idea what your talking about? Its not as simple as just walking out the door for alot of women (as gh0stpreacher explained). When a woman finally does leave she is often left with little money and alot of emotional problems and womens shelters can help them with these things. If you think some animal needs shelter more than a woman who has been abused by some drunk for years
However, the ever increasingly volatile women's abuse discussion has caught my attention.
I see that both sides of the forum have made some great points. The whole key to the situation is how the man is using the woman's attraction against her, using it to make her comfused, guilt-ridden, and stupified. He is often more sick than her, even after she leaves the relationship in tatters. These kind of men disgust me on so many levels.
There is no doubt that this is the man's fault. He is the one abusing her. There is a "but" in this topic though. You see, the woman has made the choice to stay in that relationship, for whatever reason, and is allowing herself to be hurt more. While there may be some relevant and valid psychological problems that are helping to make this choice, the fact still remains that she is, on many levels, allowing it to happen. Her attraction for him gives her the justification to turn a blind eye to what is happening.
There are other issues, like children, personal property, etc, that also feed into the psyche of women that stay in abusive relationships.
Men that cause this kind of discussion that we have going on right now bother me deeply.
I'm not a fan of PETA, nor am I opposed to hunting.
I also don't have a weak stomach- I've seen quite a bit of the graphic videos floating around the web... but I have to say that's one of the first videos I stopped watching- that's simply messed up.
Worry about animals when we've taken care of our own problems. The key word is <i>ANIMALS</i>. I don't know about you, but sentient life > animal life in my book.
As long as the environment is maintained to keep us comfy (i.e. less pollution and stable flora/fauna population), I don't really care what happens to it.
In the case of women being abused and choosing to stay in the relationship... nobody fully knows, nobody CAN know, until they are placed in that situation. Which, I am not, so I can only guess why someone would stay in an abusive relationship: As previously mentioned abuse doesn't start right away there is a level of trust and sometimes brainwashing that happens before the first hit is thrown. I'd wager that most abused women have incredibly low self esteem for one reason or another and have all but given up on life, through their eyes they don't deserve to be happy, there are worse things in life, right? As crazy as it seems its still possible to love (or believe you love) the hand that hits you. Battered children love their parents, beaten animals love their owners, abused wifes can love their husbands. Personally I don't understand it, but it's true. I dunno, I'd like to think that if I ever get slapped or hit I'd kick his **** and be get out of the relationship ASAP, but you never know until you're there I suppose.
/me knocks on wood
Worry about animals when we've taken care of our own problems. The key word is ANIMALS. I don't know about you, but sentient life > animal life in my book.
As long as the environment is maintained to keep us comfy (i.e. less pollution and stable flora/fauna population), I don't really care what happens to it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't see why we can't do both at the same time.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree. Humans basically deserve what they get if you ask me. We are intelligent enough to prevent the tradgedies that happen daily to other humans in the world, but we don't. We put our greed and whatnot ahead of all that.
These animals are suffering for, literally, no reason whatsoever. Natural law is being violated violated ans spat upon. They aren't being killed for their meat, their being tortured so some wealthy **** can satisfy her vanity. To me, this is worse then any war.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Worry about animals when we've taken care of our own problems. The key word is <i>ANIMALS</i>. I don't know about you, but sentient life > animal life in my book. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We too are animals. And while I place human life above an animals life, I cannot do the same for suffering. Dying is the natural order, there is no avoiding it, some must die so that others can live. But there is no reason that any animal should need to suffer like this. Absolutely none. I place an animal's suffering on the same level as a human's, because it is the same.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As long as the environment is maintained to keep us comfy (i.e. less pollution and stable flora/fauna population), I don't really care what happens to it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This isn't about "the environment", this is about the needless suffering of animals.
---
Oh, and because everyone seems to be misunderstanding me, let me say that I never said that battered women's shelters shouldn't exist, I just don't place them at a higher priority then animal shelters.
Worry about animals when we've taken care of our own problems. The key word is <i>ANIMALS</i>. I don't know about you, but sentient life > animal life in my book.
As long as the environment is maintained to keep us comfy (i.e. less pollution and stable flora/fauna population), I don't really care what happens to it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you kick puppies?
If not, why not?
Skulkbait hit it on the nose with needless suffering (although I strongly disagree that animals have the same priority as humans regarding suffering).
I'm just trying not to think about it.
~ DarkATi
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know how you pull a t-shirt over your head, well they pretty much do this to a cute little raccoon/fox thing, except instead of a shirt, its the animals skin.
The most disgusting thing is that they left the entirely skinless animal alive to wallow in its pain.
I can't imagine going home and living a normal life after doing that for a day, how do these people live with themselves? The practice of skinning animals is ancient and has aided our very survival as a race, but what they show in that video is nothing but sick, perverted torture.
I'm hardly an animal rights activist but those people should have the same thing done to them, then maybe a nice scrub down with some brillo pads soaked in lime juice.