False Advertising
Shockeh
If a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it... Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
If a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it... Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
in Off-Topic
<div class="IPBDescription">UK, Is this legal?</div> Hi guys,
I'd like an opinion on this, as I'm rather annoyed. If it goes further, I'll name names, but not until I'm sure. I bought an Acer 19" TFT from a known online dealer (one of the bigger ones, let's leave it at that) only a week ago, on the basis that the technical Specifications page for the monitor read response time : 16ms.
All was well & good, until I received delivery, at which point I felt there was way too much ghosting to be 16ms, so I did some investigating. Now, upon searching the Acer site, this monitor is listed as 23ms.
Worry begins to creep into my mind at this point, however the real downer comes when I go back to the dealer, and suddenly 16ms on their site has changed to 23ms.
Is this legal? Effectively, I've paid for 16ms, only to receive 23ms, and with a quick website change, there's no evidence it wasn't simply user error. I'd think 'tough luck to me then' only on the same page, there's a user written review from 2 weeks before, where a user noted the exact same thing....
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Please note this monitor is 23ms, not the 16ms mentioned. I got caught out, but I only wanted this for a workstation so I'm not that bothered.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to know if anyone thinks I have any action I can take, I'm awaiting a reply on my first email to them to ask what action is going to be taken first.
- Shockwave, somewhat irritated.
I'd like an opinion on this, as I'm rather annoyed. If it goes further, I'll name names, but not until I'm sure. I bought an Acer 19" TFT from a known online dealer (one of the bigger ones, let's leave it at that) only a week ago, on the basis that the technical Specifications page for the monitor read response time : 16ms.
All was well & good, until I received delivery, at which point I felt there was way too much ghosting to be 16ms, so I did some investigating. Now, upon searching the Acer site, this monitor is listed as 23ms.
Worry begins to creep into my mind at this point, however the real downer comes when I go back to the dealer, and suddenly 16ms on their site has changed to 23ms.
Is this legal? Effectively, I've paid for 16ms, only to receive 23ms, and with a quick website change, there's no evidence it wasn't simply user error. I'd think 'tough luck to me then' only on the same page, there's a user written review from 2 weeks before, where a user noted the exact same thing....
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Please note this monitor is 23ms, not the 16ms mentioned. I got caught out, but I only wanted this for a workstation so I'm not that bothered.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to know if anyone thinks I have any action I can take, I'm awaiting a reply on my first email to them to ask what action is going to be taken first.
- Shockwave, somewhat irritated.
Comments
The problem is that you'd have to prove that the monitor was mislabelled, which would be extremely hard to do in court. I'd harass their customer service department until they let you return it, before I'd go to small claims court (or the UK equivalent). I'm sure if you threatened it, they'd let you return it with no problem.
Oh and printscreen that users comment I doubt they will change it but you never know...
That was someone's remark after purchasing it that he got from the site (that was changed from 16 to 23); not his.
I concur: harass customer service until they let you do what you want. Belligerent customers for the win!
Oh and printscreen that users comment I doubt they will change it but you never know... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Already done Hodge, and email sent to their Customer Services.
Now, let's wait & see what they say.
- Shockeh
That was someone's remark after purchasing it that he got from the site (that was changed from 16 to 23); not his. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah my apologies for coming over a bit 'moody'. It's early morning but that's still no excuse for my poor reading, wait yes it is. Okay, maybe not.
If another user noted it then you have a case, work on the company from there <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I'd have said what they did was technically illegal - the big question will be whether they did it deliberately or if it was a genuine mistake that some one pointed out - guess you'll find out in their email reply...
The 16ms response time that ACER had orignally quoted to the supplier was probably the black/white (on/off) pixel phase change time. This is not the true speed of the monitor.
What the 23ms might refer to is the color random phase change timings, which lead on from *ANY* of the pixel color phases, ie Red->Green, Red->Blue, Blue->Green, or even any of RGB->White/on.
They should really be listing that panel as 16ms/23ms, giving both the black/white phase, and the random color change phase timings.
That is the exact reason why I'm sticking with CRT. Not taking into account Brightness and Contrast on the TFT panels themselves.
To summarise, I would check with ACER as to the black/white, and random color change timings. If they say that any of them for your model is 16ms, then you have no legal standing for a complaint. What the supplier has told is factual, ie, one of the two major timings is actually 16ms. You might be able to get the supplier to chance their wordings of the TFT, siting that the information posted may be misleading, however, you would have a hard time of it. My bike is supposed to do 75mph, but I can only get it to 65mph. What SYM have told me is factual, but they won't tell me the full reasons behind the quote that I have
I would speak informally to ACER, and get the full spec, then decide what to do from there...
Here's a quike link on it google turned up. If what you say is accurate then they've broken the law
<a href='http://www.hants.gov.uk/regulatory/tradesta/law/traddesc.html' target='_blank'>Linky</a> <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And yeah, if they advertise something, they have to sell it, it's illegal otherwise.
Reminds me of a PC World store that my mate used to work with, on Sundays they sometimes had one day offers which weren't all that bad, especially one sunday, Instead of advertising something like a 9600SE for £100 (No, i don't remember the exact details <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->) they accidently printed 5900, and some Sunday, they had to sell all the 5900's for that price. They sold out in 30 minutes.
EDIT: Skinny, if they're a registered UK business, they fall under the UK laws for trading standards, if they advertise something and what you buy isn't what they advertise, you're legally obliged to a refund or a replacement.
Does the monitor have 16ms *anywhere* in it's technical specifications?
If it does, then the retailer has a legal standpoint of that they have *not* broken the law by stating that the monitor has a timing of 16ms. If so, then in the eyes of the law, the retailer has done nothing wrong. What they have sold you is a TFT monitor, with a timing of 16ms.
The only thing that the retailer might have done better, is to get which timing is 16ms. However, you look at any online retailer, not just the computer ones, but places like Argos as well. *NONE* of them actually quote which timing they are quoting.
Now for the legal bit...
<!--QuoteBegin-Trade Descriptions Act 1968 -> 1972+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trade Descriptions Act 1968 -> 1972)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Seeks to control the accuracy of statements made by businesses about goods and services. Most factual statements about goods are covered, except their price - for which see Consumer Protection Act 1987 Part III. It is an offence to apply a false trade description to goods, or to supply goods to which a false trade description is applied. If a trader can show that he took all reasonable precautions and exercised all due diligence to avoid the commission of the offence, he may escape liability. The application of the Act to services (e.g. holidays, accommodation, travel, servicing) is more complex. The types of statement covered by the Act are more restricted than for goods, and the prosecution must prove that the defendant made the false statement 'knowingly' or 'recklessly'.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like what I said above, if the retailer has made the 16ms statement, and told you that the color phase change is 16ms, then it would be breaking the above law. As they have not made the specific statement regarding the techincal specs, then they are safe to tell you that the monitor has a timing of 16ms, <b>AS LONG AS THE SPECS DO SAY THAT THE MONITOR HAS A TIMING OF 16MS, OR HAVE BEEN TOLD THIS BY THE MANUFACTURER</b>
This is bit is pertinent to this particular discussion
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If a trader can show that he took all reasonable precautions and exercised all due diligence<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The retailer has fulfilled this requirement by making the ambiguous statement that the monitor has a response of 16ms.
Even though they have changed the description of the monitor, it doesn't change the fact that they have not fed you a lie to get you to buy the monitor.
If I carry on much longer, I'm going to go round in circles...
If its been more than 7 days, then what Lt Patch says is the case and you are pretty much stuck with it I'm afraid. Sell it on ebay I guess...
Effectively, keep quiet, go low & hope no-one who knows about this field will notice.
- Shockwave
Myself ive been looking at the 17" Iiyama PLE435S-S Silver with 10ms response time for £180.
The 19inch mone you got does look good but the response time puts me off, iirc a 17inch tft is practicalyl equivilent in veiwable screen size to a 19inch crt.
Good luck with the return just keep at them and hopefully they will give in and return it for you. But as others have suggested get a screenshot or save the website with the comment
It's not Ebuyer, by any chance? Word has it that their RMA system is atrocious.
Shockwave, If you intend on returning the monitor, make sure you show your intention before 7 days are up, if they aren't already. If I remember rightly, the item doesn't need to be with the supplier within 7 days, but you need to have requested, and received an RMA number within 7 days to get your money back. If it's not within 7 days, then check with the company with direct regards to their returns system, some companies will give you credit for a return within 28 days, or a replacement. If you want a different monitor, then you will need to make this explicitly clear to the returns staff that this is your intention, should the return get approved.
Not a huge fan of credit transactions and online shopping, has its perks yes like cheaper prices and more choice, but thiers little or no comeback. A letter they can ignore a person shouting in thier face they cant.
EDIT: Have you tried the Wayback Machine for a previous version of the page?
That's something I read on I forgot where, but they did say it's perfectly legal, except if they mensionned the standard.
A big "OMGZ 16 MS§" sign on any box shouldn't be taken seriously. It's like if your computer says "internet ready" because it has an ethernet jack and explorer.
If that don't work, and you used a credit card, you can always go the 'online fraud' route w/ the credit card company (i've had to do this 2 or 3 times before).
--Scythe--