Seriously, i dont think EVERY hive in EVERY map should have a seige location. Some adversity, please. Make the marines actually walk into the hive. You can seige vent and generator, thats good enough.
No, I've lost numerous games with which sewer was the second building hive and the aliens were smart enough to work together and force my marines to go in there for a sliver of hope to kill it.
considering how easy it is to camp sewer (upper sewer, purification) so that no skulks can make it out alive, i don't think this is such a huge problem
With all those ladders around making it suicide to be an Onos in there, and even a bit risky for a fade, it sure is good that Sewer was made favourable to aliens, imagine what it'd be like if it favoured marines.
<!--QuoteBegin-BloodBall+Apr 13 2005, 04:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BloodBall @ Apr 13 2005, 04:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Let me remind you that two of the 3 alien hives have their resnodes OUTSIDE the hive location on that map. Sewer being one of them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> QFT. You can easily take out their node, which compensates for the fact that it's difficult to siege.
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Apr 14 2005, 05:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Apr 14 2005, 05:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If sewer is the hive, go seige ventilation. I'd always go to seige Generator if that's a choice. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed. Move to some other hives. i dun think insisting sieging one hive is a solution. However, if this is the last hive, just go jp or ha.
Yeah, there is no needto have every have seigeable. That hive is diddfcult for aliens anyways, since you can easily contain them in there, and they have no RT in the hive
And how dare a team use teamwork in a team based game!
Caged is terrible anyways. A smart alien team just lames vent and drops sewer second. Seiges can't reach sewer from either side, and its a crappy hive to try to lock down for marines because there is no node in there to electrify. Hives should always meet one of two conditions
A: is easy to siege from a room near by
B: is possible to seige from the hives resourse node.
Without one of those two conditions the hive is rediculously alein biased. Expecially considering that sewer is the easiest hive in the world to lame and defend effecively with the ladders that force the marines to do lots of high to low and low to high altitude combat and force the quarters to just about small enough that skulks can still dodge, but marines can't cover or manuever. Sewer is one of the more difficult hives to take for either side. The problem is that it is much more useless to hold then your average hive for marines.
[edit] yes sewer is gross for onos and to a lesser degree fades. but sewer is also the WORST hive in any NS map to assult for both heavies and jetpacks. Heavies get raped up and down the ladders and in the small corridors on either side, and the cieling is too low and has too many obsticals for the hive to fly around in effectively as jetpack.
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Apr 14 2005, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Apr 14 2005, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Structure block the Fades I guess as they traverse between ladders. I think grenade launchers are godsend in a place like Sewer <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Stucture blocking is bannable on many pubs (icluding LM) and will eventually probably be removed from the game. If sewer is second hive that also often means bile gorges, who are DEADLY biling up the incline where they can not be shot at, and are DEADLY biling down the incline, where marines have to climb a ladder to put more then 4 bullets into them.
I agree with you, GLs are a godsend. But on pubs it is hard to find a player who is competent with the things, and in scrims/pugs, you have to move all your marines out of the ladder bays before you nade or you will end up with just as much FF kills as alien kills. The hive is also large enough and the gorges have little problem hiding up on the light fixtures or the far side walls and avioding kill damage from grenades, where the grenaders who are forced to go halfway down the ladders to acctually hit the hive (from processing) are skulk food because there is NO WAY that HMGs or shotguns can cover them effectively that close quarters.
Assulting from lower sewer is just as risky because there is no node to electrify and drop your PG beside, meaning if you don't have marines there, you are probably going to lose your base to skulks and the fact that there is only one ladder passage makes you spore meat, and exceptionally vulnerable to anything and everything as soon as you drop down the ladder into the hive.
I am going to have to agree with Rapier, sewer is such a pain in the ****, you have ZERO chance to siege it. As for a change to make it better, I am not sure.
I think it's nice to have a hive that's hard to siege, makes for a break from the norm. It's not that hard to siege from lower sewer anyway. Yes it's harder than some other places but it's by no means impossible. A quick lol at the person who seems to think that an electrified node is a requirement for having a PG. 30 res of mine will do a much better job.
<!--QuoteBegin-Anderval+Apr 14 2005, 05:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Anderval @ Apr 14 2005, 05:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> if sewer was not finished building then why are you trying to seige an unfinished hive? if it was already up then go seige somewhere else <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> prevent movement rushes?
I was on the alien team of an assault on the sewer hive. The marines kept trying to push into sewer with heavy, GLs, jetpacks, whatever they had. we held them off with a lerk and a few gorges, as well as the occasional fade and onos when we called for help, but meanwhile, the rest of the team was breaking generator and putting up our third hive. I was gorge in sewer and healing the hive constantly with my movement chamber. The hive almost died twice, but 2 gorges constantly healing it got it back from 20% health back to 100%
After the third hive was up, we went crazy with webs and quickly killed their remaining jetpacks and cornered them in marine start. One of the funnest games I had ever played in NS.
urinalcakeCan't work a sound cardUnited StatesJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7799Members
First, you can siege from up the double ladders, its small, but you can squeeze a TF and three sieges up there. Then you can siege from up the single ladder hallway that goes towards upper sewer.
I held off a team of heavies as a single one-hive fade with carapace in sewer....they never thought to siege, but they just couldn't and/or didn't want to go in. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But that's really a case of bad marines rather than bad mapping. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Yeah sewer is pain in the arse for marines. I think the fact that all entrances are ladders is the main cause.
Ive played games where the marines had the entire map locked down and HA suits. But it still took a good 20 minutes to end it due to how difficult it is getting in the hive.
<!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Apr 13 2005, 10:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Apr 13 2005, 10:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-BloodBall+Apr 13 2005, 04:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BloodBall @ Apr 13 2005, 04:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Let me remind you that two of the 3 alien hives have their resnodes OUTSIDE the hive location on that map. Sewer being one of them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> QFT. You can easily take out their node, which compensates for the fact that it's difficult to siege. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, I hate how hard it is to siege Sewer as well, but I think in the long run it balances out due to this fact.
Well, you can always siege it out in the medieval sense of the word: kill all the alien rts, have marines just camp the bottom of the two ladders, and wait until they have absolutely no more res for buildings or lifeforms, and then attack. Aim for the chambers first (sieges actually help with this, because they don't have to reach the hive, just the chambers scattered around the room). Even if they repel you, their only source of res will be from rfk, which won't be enough to replace lost chambers, meaning that your next attack will be against vanilla skulks only. Sweep through them with lvl3 hmg, set up a spawncamp, shotty the hive down, win.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
Anyone can win in THAT situation. We're talking about something like this this: Sewer is going up and Vent is incredibly lamed up for some reason, and they have MCs. You don't have GLs yet since it's 5 minutes into the game, and you're trying to set up seiges when the gorge is constantly healing, and thr lerk constantly gassing, and the Celerity Fade coming in, swiping, and getting out before anyone can react. Don't forget the skulks as well.
Or, maybe the second hive went up alreayd, and in this case it's even more impossible. Gorges can EASILY bilebomb the seige spots.
<!--QuoteBegin-Rapier7+Apr 14 2005, 09:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rapier7 @ Apr 14 2005, 09:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> A medieval siege only works when one army completely outclasses the other.
So basically you're telling us to assemble a far superior team in order to win?
Wow, best advice I've heard in a long time! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No, he's telling you to take out everything else they have and then use your much higher tech to win the game.
I will have to agree with the fact that it's a good thing sewer is more difficult to siege. Mainly because it forces your team to work together to take it out, and I'm all about teamwork. Also, it makes things much more fun because it isn't the same, siege this hive, now lets go siege that hive; just spices things up I guess <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> But I don't care what is bad about sewer, because it will always be my favorite map.
As for those of you who are disappointed with it's current layout, I believe I remember reading that caged was gonna have some work done to it in the new version. Don't hold me to it, but I'm almost positive I remember reading it, however it just didn't say what was going to be done.
Caged is one of the original maps that has kept its dignity and style. After the changes in 2.0 people played the map and got over problems, like a hive is difficult than most to siege :O. Sewer hasnt been changed in a long time so let it keep it glory and stop whining. Ohh and btw it is siegable, 3 sieges top of the ladder bobs your uncle.
Comments
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Seriously, i dont think EVERY hive in EVERY map should have a seige location. Some adversity, please. Make the marines actually walk into the hive. You can seige vent and generator, thats good enough.
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
QFT. You can easily take out their node, which compensates for the fact that it's difficult to siege.
Agreed.
Move to some other hives. i dun think insisting sieging one hive is a solution. However, if this is the last hive, just go jp or ha.
And how dare a team use teamwork in a team based game!
or
amx_vote "Does Rapier Whine too much?" Yes No
LOLZ
U know u love me rapier
~Jason
A: is easy to siege from a room near by
B: is possible to seige from the hives resourse node.
Without one of those two conditions the hive is rediculously alein biased. Expecially considering that sewer is the easiest hive in the world to lame and defend effecively with the ladders that force the marines to do lots of high to low and low to high altitude combat and force the quarters to just about small enough that skulks can still dodge, but marines can't cover or manuever. Sewer is one of the more difficult hives to take for either side. The problem is that it is much more useless to hold then your average hive for marines.
[edit] yes sewer is gross for onos and to a lesser degree fades. but sewer is also the WORST hive in any NS map to assult for both heavies and jetpacks. Heavies get raped up and down the ladders and in the small corridors on either side, and the cieling is too low and has too many obsticals for the hive to fly around in effectively as jetpack.
Stucture blocking is bannable on many pubs (icluding LM) and will eventually probably be removed from the game. If sewer is second hive that also often means bile gorges, who are DEADLY biling up the incline where they can not be shot at, and are DEADLY biling down the incline, where marines have to climb a ladder to put more then 4 bullets into them.
I agree with you, GLs are a godsend. But on pubs it is hard to find a player who is competent with the things, and in scrims/pugs, you have to move all your marines out of the ladder bays before you nade or you will end up with just as much FF kills as alien kills. The hive is also large enough and the gorges have little problem hiding up on the light fixtures or the far side walls and avioding kill damage from grenades, where the grenaders who are forced to go halfway down the ladders to acctually hit the hive (from processing) are skulk food because there is NO WAY that HMGs or shotguns can cover them effectively that close quarters.
Assulting from lower sewer is just as risky because there is no node to electrify and drop your PG beside, meaning if you don't have marines there, you are probably going to lose your base to skulks and the fact that there is only one ladder passage makes you spore meat, and exceptionally vulnerable to anything and everything as soon as you drop down the ladder into the hive.
prevent movement rushes?
After the third hive was up, we went crazy with webs and quickly killed their remaining jetpacks and cornered them in marine start. One of the funnest games I had ever played in NS.
But that's really a case of bad marines rather than bad mapping. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Ive played games where the marines had the entire map locked down and HA suits. But it still took a good 20 minutes to end it due to how difficult it is getting in the hive.
QFT. You can easily take out their node, which compensates for the fact that it's difficult to siege. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I hate how hard it is to siege Sewer as well, but I think in the long run it balances out due to this fact.
-Brackhar
So basically you're telling us to assemble a far superior team in order to win?
Wow, best advice I've heard in a long time!
Or, maybe the second hive went up alreayd, and in this case it's even more impossible. Gorges can EASILY bilebomb the seige spots.
So basically you're telling us to assemble a far superior team in order to win?
Wow, best advice I've heard in a long time! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, he's telling you to take out everything else they have and then use your much higher tech to win the game.
As for those of you who are disappointed with it's current layout, I believe I remember reading that caged was gonna have some work done to it in the new version. Don't hold me to it, but I'm almost positive I remember reading it, however it just didn't say what was going to be done.