It doesnt make sense...

Shuvit_ViperShuvit_Viper Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 62Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Can marines breathe in space?</div>why do the marines even bother fighting? why not just blow a hole in the hull of the ship and let the vacuum thingie destroy the aliens?

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you could say the aliens have evolved into breathing in air, but then the marines would need to have airmasks, cause with all these bullets flying around, i could think of some hulldamage-vacuum-no-air-were-all-going-to-die scenarios... btw, NS_Reaction has some space OUTSIDE the spaceship. the marine model has no oxygenmask. the marines are all going to die.

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unless.. there could be a func_space sort of brushentity, which is really great, covering the whole space in which there is no air.. when a marine enters this func_space entity, a animation is started in which he puts on a oxygenmask, removing it when leaving the func_space... (the aliens could have evolved into not having to breathe, this would explain all the water near the hive in some maps (why built your hive somewhere where there are areas you can't be..) and give the aliens another advantage, being able to stay under water for a long time (maybe the water is a little bit poisonous to them (like alcohol to us), forcing them to come up, giving their liver-organ the time to dump all the toxic stuff), if not unlimited (but this would not be fair i think)

just an idea.. i know this is a 'realistic' mod (as far as aliens fighting marines is realistic) but playability comes before the story (i.e. it is FICTION), but i just thought i had to bring it up...
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Comments

  • realityisdeadrealityisdead Employed by Raven Software after making ns_nothing Join Date: 2002-01-26 Member: 94Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    While I think that seeing the marines put on masks when they go outside would be really sweet, I personally don't think that trying to make the game as realistic as possible is going to make it any better... It would actually hurt it.

    I like the idea about letting aliens stay under water longer though. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
  • MonsieurEvilMonsieurEvil Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 4Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->why do the marines even bother fighting? why not just blow a hole in the hull of the ship and let the vacuum thingie destroy the aliens?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    A well-designed spaceship isn't just a huge empty balloon waiting to be pricked. It has bulkheads, self-sealing hatches, and other things to stop decompression. So, you might kill a few aliens, but you'd need to destroy the whole ship to kill them all.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->btw, NS_Reaction has some space OUTSIDE the spaceship. the marine model has no oxygenmask. the marines are all going to die<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Ehhh, as previously mentioned, the NS_Reaction base is a platform hovering in the atmosphere over some mountains.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->covering the whole space in which there is no air.. when a marine enters this func_space entity, a animation is started in which he puts on a oxygenmask, removing it when leaving the func_space... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    A nifty idea, but there are no spots in any maps that are in space, so it's not necessary to do anything like this. The one difference might bs NS_Penumbra, where Yama has worked on some decompression scenarios - but the point of those is to kill the player <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->just an idea.. i know this is a 'realistic' mod<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This is not a realistic mod. When there are ever choices in gameplay versus realism, Flay typically tries to go with fun gameplay.



    <!--EDIT|MonsieurEvil|Feb. 01 2002,18:13-->
  • pielemuispielemuis Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 72Members, NS1 Playtester
    An animaion when he enters a space with no air? You mean like Rise Of  The Triad when you pick up a gasmask it just covers your POV with that gasmask, or do you mean like you get to see yourself in third person? If you switch to third person view it would suck, i mean what if you're in the middle of the battle and you walk into such a vacuum, then it would start and prevend you from shooting the enemy, if it's like rott it would be cool, the commander could be able to research it adn then phase it to the marines, and they can put it on, like they use it like an inventory item, don't know if this is gonna work with the hl- enging, cuz i played chemicla existence once and it had a sequence where you put on a protective suit and it was just like i said, but it looked terrible.
  • Hida_TsuzuaHida_Tsuzua Lamarck&#39;s Heir Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 79Members, NS1 Playtester
    Maybe one could agrue that the marine's armor offers limited protection in space and he has a cybermatic oxygen tank in him.  So in space, you can have the marine suffer drowning damage (caused by small tank of O2) or just have the gs set real low.  

    Edit- To clarify thoughts
  • pielemuispielemuis Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 72Members, NS1 Playtester
    Could you translate that second sentence in english? <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
    I wouldn't worry 'bout that oxygen-mask thingy,I agree that when it comes to choose between gameplay and realism, you have to choose gameplay. Besides like NS is realistic, everybody knows a bob is yellow!
  • Shuvit_ViperShuvit_Viper Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 62Members
    but... the mod tries to be realistic... it is not just about some aliens getting to the earth to kill all people, but about a species that tries to survive...
    there was a whole topic about the evolution of the aliens, and i think flayra is always going to go for gameplay if its between gameplay and realism, but trying to get all other things as *realistic* as possible.. although i might be wrong...

    - that animation would be something the player itself does not see (maybe a symbol shows up in the HUD), but the other players see...
  • hArkhArk Join Date: 2002-01-26 Member: 92Members
    Well realism is some thing like Ghost Recon one shot kills and still not all that realistic but closest I think so far and is fun at the same time

    Realism has it place but you can’t go over board with it to much you or youreplace the fun
  • FragHaus_JabrimFragHaus_Jabrim Join Date: 2002-02-01 Member: 145Members
    Well no matter how realistic something is or what kind of bells and whistles you give it, if it isn't fun its nothing.
  • Bob_the_AlienBob_the_Alien Join Date: 2002-01-30 Member: 135Members
    lol realism, why would we be playing half life if we wanted realism. If we have to much realism itll turn out to be like WWII online. alt+f2 to put bullet into gun, ctrl+shft+f7 to take off safty, alt+shft+enter+turning around and patting your head to fire. Im going to stick with fun over realism, thank you.
  • pielemuispielemuis Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 72Members, NS1 Playtester
    Indeed bob (isn't it shift-escape-delete to put a bullet in a gun?)
    If you go for realism you end up with CS, a game everybody hates when they play it for a year.
  • YamazakiYamazaki Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 21Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    If you become the victim of decompression in NS_PENUMBRA you will die. Not even the toughest alien survives. Everyone on the wrong side of the forcefield gets sucked through the opened hatch and gibs (Realistically you wouldn't gib in space, but I don't want to waste tons of entities on making a fancy 'float in space and slowly die' scene). The only way to avoid getting sucked out is by being on the safe side of the forcefield... or being in the forcefield when it turns on, in which case the forcefield slices you in half. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
  • devilblocksdevilblocks Join Date: 2002-02-04 Member: 162Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Well if whoever was "attacking" the ship wanted the ship mostly intact, you would have to go in with troops.  Maybe you are looking for survivors, or want the cargo, or want the computer stuff, or maybe the ship cost (they have to be pretty damn expensive) is just too great to just "blow up"
  • Cm_FranksCm_Franks Join Date: 2005-04-16 Member: 48657Members
    Sometimes it's not a ship, but a mining facility or something, like Hera. So you can't blow the aliens into space!
  • ZammaZamma Join Date: 2004-05-04 Member: 28458Members, Constellation
    If you have played CO_airlock the whole idea is to open the airlock to suck out the other team into space thus killing them.
  • X_StickmanX_Stickman Not good enough for a custom title. Join Date: 2003-04-15 Member: 15533Members, Constellation
    This is some pretty heavy bumping right here, but what the hell.

    Maybe the aliens can't survive in space but the bacteria can. How'd it get there in the first place? It just appears on random spaceships/stations, so it must travel through space somehow.

    The whole reason the TSA go in to the ship is to save companies money. The sheer amount of ships the Kharra infect would mean that blowing each one up would ruin pretty much every shipping company going. So they go in, clear it out, and save the company the money and hassle of building another ship (as well as saving any cargo it was carrying).

    And they can't just open up all the airlocks because of the nano gridlock, the Kharra bacteria is essentially battling the Nannites for control of the station, and while neither side is winning, it means that the Marines (or anyone on there) have no direct control over many of the ships functions.
  • DuoGodOfDeathDuoGodOfDeath Join Date: 2002-08-01 Member: 1044Members
    Welcome to 2 years ago ladies and gents!
  • TeiohTeioh Canadia Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9453Members, Constellation
    don't you know the tactical capabilities of 3 large rooms all connected by vents? Hell on biodome, that floating hologram of the aliens is worth the thousands of men who died for it!
  • SkySky Join Date: 2004-04-23 Member: 28131Members
    Wow. Greatest.necromancy.ever. And it even matches the title of the thread: "It doesn't make sense."

    Shall we all take turns naming reasons why this mod <i>isn't</i> realistic? I'll start:
    1) Recoil-less guns
  • MamboKingMamboKing Join Date: 2004-03-06 Member: 27169Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Apr 16 2005, 09:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Apr 16 2005, 09:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Wow. Greatest.necromancy.ever. And it even matches the title of the thread: "It doesn't make sense."

    Shall we all take turns naming reasons why this mod <i>isn't</i> realistic? I'll start:
    1) Recoil-less guns <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    2) Humans still exist.
  • PRTePRTe Join Date: 2003-10-25 Member: 21919Members
    ouch at bumping a two year old thread on his first post <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    anyway ns isn't realisitic and you can't base your arguments off custom maps. someone could create a CS map on a space shuttle and it's not like the CTs and Ts would be wearing oxygen masks and floating in space right.
  • DarkFrostDarkFrost Join Date: 2003-04-03 Member: 15154Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    I thought mr evil was back here for a sec there... alas its been a call of necromancy on a 3 year old thread that brought him back =/
  • ArsnicArsnic Join Date: 2005-04-13 Member: 48327Members
    i cant believe this is actually a topic <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • UzguzUzguz Join Date: 2003-06-05 Member: 17016Members, Constellation
    How 2005 - 2002 = 2 is completely beyond me. Someone explain this branch of mathematics post-haste.

    And Arsnic, your signature is a <i>little</i> too big.
  • OlljOllj our themepark-stalking nightmare Fade Join Date: 2002-12-12 Member: 10696Members
    edited April 2005
    Admiral, why dont we just breach the hull after overriding the automatic hatchlocks closing procedure?

    Last time we did this an onos just put its fat **** inside the hole and lerks just farted a new athmosphere.
    It looked so gross that we decided to never ever do this again.
  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
    Holy fudge, we are talking VVVVVVV times a million!
    <img src='http://swiftspear.0x01a4.com/Img/WMNecro.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

    This thread is stupid anyways, we all know gameplay > realism.
  • KhaimKhaim Join Date: 2002-06-28 Member: 841Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    edited April 2005
    <!--QuoteBegin-[Shuvit.Viper+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([Shuvit.Viper)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->,Feb 1 2002, 04:26 PM] why do the marines even bother fighting? why not just blow a hole in the hull of the ship and let the vacuum thingie destroy the aliens?

    -

    you could say the aliens have evolved into breathing in air, but then the marines would need to have airmasks, cause with all these bullets flying around, i could think of some hulldamage-vacuum-no-air-were-all-going-to-die scenarios... btw, NS_Reaction has some space OUTSIDE the spaceship. the marine model has no oxygenmask. the marines are all going to die.

    -

    unless.. there could be a func_space sort of brushentity, which is really great, covering the whole space in which there is no air.. when a marine enters this func_space entity, a animation is started in which he puts on a oxygenmask, removing it when leaving the func_space... (the aliens could have evolved into not having to breathe, this would explain all the water near the hive in some maps (why built your hive somewhere where there are areas you can't be..) and give the aliens another advantage, being able to stay under water for a long time (maybe the water is a little bit poisonous to them (like alcohol to us), forcing them to come up, giving their liver-organ the time to dump all the toxic stuff), if not unlimited (but this would not be fair i think)

    just an idea.. i know this is a 'realistic' mod (as far as aliens fighting marines is realistic) but playability comes before the story (i.e. it is FICTION), but i just thought i had to bring it up... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    A) Because they are trying to take the ships and stations in-tact, plus, who knows if the aliens actually need oxygen to breathe?...don't you dare say they do because they can drown in ns. >:|

    B) Nanites destroy the bullets when they impact either friendlies or terrain to prevent hull damage, I believe this was in the TechTrope article or somesuch.

    C) A func_space entity would A) Jar up the max entities by a lot. B) Require a Gasmask model. C) Require a full Gasmask animation. D) Require a client side patch and all maps to be updated, plus and FGD update or whatever. :X

    D) I don't speak for the dev team, so don't shoot me. ^^;;

    E) Well crap, I just wasted 10 minutes of my life writing a logical reply to a 2 year old necromance-ed topic. Someone please shoot me.
  • FlounderFlounder Join Date: 2004-09-12 Member: 31656Members
    Wow old. I wonder if shuvit is even alive...
  • hawthornehawthorne Join Date: 2003-10-05 Member: 21460Members
    I can't believe no one's said the obvious.

    "Nanites."
  • Guvnuh4Guvnuh4 Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2198Members, Constellation
    edited April 2005
    <!--QuoteBegin-hawthorne+Apr 19 2005, 06:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (hawthorne @ Apr 19 2005, 06:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I can't believe no one's said the obvious.

    "Nanites." <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    it's funny b/c i was looking for that word too, way to go khaim. you were on top of things!!

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->QUOTE ([Shuvit.Viper),Feb 1 <b>2002</b>,

    blah blah blah blah

    blah

    E) Well crap, I just wasted 10 minutes of my life writing a logical reply to a <b><u>2 year old</b></u> necromance-ed topic. Someone please shoot me. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    but khaim... maybe you should do your math a little bit better. 2005 - 2002 != 2 years... just to help you out. <3
  • GiGaBiTeGiGaBiTe Join Date: 2003-10-07 Member: 21489Members
    expanding on the func_space entity..

    having a func_space brush entity would pose a problem when the hulls of ships started to have angles in them, because you would have to fill in the cracks on the outside or the marine would lose his mask.

    a better approach would be creating cluster portal type things, where all the mapper would have to do would make a func_space block on the entrance and exit doors. exiting the ship would set the flag for the marine to have the mask, and entering the ship again would make him remove the mask when he touched the func_space.

    i really see no point in adding this to the hl engine, it would only put more stress on the clients and server for minimal realism gain. and the servers are having a terrible time as it is.

    maybe for the next ns. cluster portals, and entities like them would work better on the ut engine than the source engine, by design. but the engine the next version of ns is going to be on is not up to us, it up to the devs.
This discussion has been closed.