<!--QuoteBegin-Sky+May 6 2005, 07:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ May 6 2005, 07:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The fact that I can go on any given ns_ server and here cries of "marines are overpowered" and "aliens are overpowered" within 10-15 minutes of each other leads me to believe that neither side is overpowered. What logic. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> We have a winner.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sky+May 6 2005, 07:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ May 6 2005, 07:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The fact that I can go on any given ns_ server and here cries of "marines are overpowered" and "aliens are overpowered" within 10-15 minutes of each other leads me to believe that neither side is overpowered. What logic. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> *votes for Sky to have my babies*
<!--QuoteBegin-Thanatos+May 6 2005, 09:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thanatos @ May 6 2005, 09:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You know, Sky, it could be that both sides are overpowered. Atleast that way I understand why I get owned so often no matter what I do. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm actually beginning to think this, too. Both sides need a serious nerf to return the "Epic"quality of NS games.
The thing is, one thing wrong can totally tip the game in the favor of one team. That extra shotgun, that 2nd hive, that fade, the PG at a key location, if it goes wrong for 5 seconds the game can tip. And these happen often on a pub where nothing ever goes right with coordination.
<!--QuoteBegin-Fatal Error+May 7 2005, 02:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fatal Error @ May 7 2005, 02:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm actually beginning to think this, too. Both sides need a serious nerf to return the "Epic"quality of NS games. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's about time people actually told us what the heck they mean with that word. We are asked for more epic situations, increase the average gamelength and try to reduce the slippery slope - and then get told that X has to happen to get the feeling 'back' (and I should point out that the often lauded 1.04 was not exactly forgiving?).
<!--QuoteBegin-Flexmaster+May 5 2005, 05:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flexmaster @ May 5 2005, 05:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hey, I and many other players are strictly against this new update, if you watch a combat game 10 minutes, you will see that now 8 from 10 times the marine only rush alien base without a chance for the aliens. I dond't know if you guys already discuss that topic before, but I havn't found it yet. Plz write some comments in here, experience etc. from you. I want to know how u guys are handling this and how u think about it. Thanks for writing, [WT]Flexmaster <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Pffft, please....
4/5s of the time marines win? Errr... sorry, I havnt seen it.
+5 armor is a welcome change. I see less early marine rapings since we take 3 bites to kill instead of 2, now. As for marines rushing, I dont think Ive ever seen a successful early marine rush more than once, or twice. Especially if the server has a safe spawn for a couple seconds, forget it.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+May 7 2005, 06:29 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ May 7 2005, 06:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Fatal Error+May 7 2005, 02:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fatal Error @ May 7 2005, 02:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm actually beginning to think this, too. Both sides need a serious nerf to return the "Epic"quality of NS games. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's about time people actually told us what the heck they mean with that word. We are asked for more epic situations, increase the average gamelength and try to reduce the slippery slope - and then get told that X has to happen to get the feeling 'back' (and I should point out that the often lauded 1.04 was not exactly forgiving?). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hmm... dont know if anything will return to epic feel of NS for me. Though, what I feel made NS lose the epic feeling was when marine players started expecting a certain strat and certain... uh, events to take place... build orders I guess you could call it, but that doesnt completely explain it, for each map. Another was the map modifications to the 1.xx versions. Maps seemed more, err, watered down? Its difficult to explain again.
Though I did like long games. The best three games I remember (and actually really the only games 1.xx I remember) were longer than three hours each. One, I commed for NS_Nancy, another I marined for Nancy, and the last I was a lerk in Eclipse. I get excited thinking of those three games... truely epic. Everyone cooperated and worked together, and both teams were very competant, and it took strategy to win all three.
off the original topic, but I thought I would comment on that.
to me the winning team is decided way too early in ns games. this makes me sad and i think ns has been digging itself a hole of "unblancedness" for a while now. eventually we will all realize what is so wrong with it but it wont be anytime soon. its too hard to see clearly when you are involved with the thing itself, which is playing the game in this situation.
Maybe... just maybe... the game hasn't become less epic at all - you're just more occustomed to it...?
I've been playing this since 1.03, and I admit, when I first started, after I'd gotten over the fact that it was going to take a while to learn the maps (gg pre-overlay map days!), I was shocked and wowed and stunned every few minutes...
Now however, I see literally nothing new each game... because I've seen it all. I still love the game, but it doesn't have that 'wow' factor it once used to - yet I was reminded of it recently when I introduced a friend to NS, and he now hasnt' shut up talking to me about it for about 3 weeks... and I mean he hasn't shut up - he doesn't talk to me unless it's about NS!!
<!--QuoteBegin-Fatal Error+May 7 2005, 10:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fatal Error @ May 7 2005, 10:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But what happened to the 3 hour games? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Long games are almost never competitive. They usually consist of one team cornering the other, who has **** for upgrades and no weapons or higher life forms.
Games probably used to be epic because almost everyone did not know how to play the game or map, and by bungling around, inadvertently extended the game.
Also, res cost. Remember in 1.0x days, the default res flow was 1 + RT. Now it's RFK + RT. And calculations done have shown RFK to produce at best 3/4 of 1 RT count throughout a game. Meaning that the old 1.0x res flow was faster than the current system.
But remember this as well. The cost of weapons were more expensive. Arms Lab: 45 then, 20 now Upgrades 20/40/60, now 20/30/40 HA: 25/15 Shotgun: 16/10 HMG: 25/15 GL: 31/15 Welder: 10/5 TF: 25/10 Sentry: 19/10 PG: 25/15
So marines took a VERY long time to tech up. However, the Kharaa usually took about 2 minutes to put up their first RT. A hive couldn't be put up until at least 8-10 minutes. Especially since DCs were vital and had to be dropped first.
So if the marines played the lockdown game, which they did, they'd be stuck with W1/A1, very few guns and a lockdown that wasn't very good (slow tracking turrets, no elect, mines chain blew themselves up). And just 3 RTs.
So even 2 carapaced 21-LMG shots to die skulks could cause the marines to lose a lockdown.
On the other hand, the aliens were swimming in res and couldn't fade, so you'd see massive WoLs, large number of spike lerks. If the marines lost a LD they would lose, but if they could slowly inch their way out, and cap more res nodes, they could get HA and turn the game around. The WoLs then could be made up of 8 OCs and 3 DCs, and took just a minute to drop by the sole gorge.
Of course, all this 'epic-ness' stopped the moment marines discovered JP/HMG FTW.
---
As for 'epic-ness' now, I still see it happen. About 1 in 10 of my NS games result in this, and happens when the player skill is balanced between both teams, and with the alien team placing a premium on res nodes.
If you can't get an epic game now, I can safely say it's because of the lack of the above 2 reasons. i.e. balanced teams and both teams continuing to play the res game.
Most aliens, after their first nodes, don't recap, and slowly lose the res war. If the aliens keep recapping, however, even if their 2nd hive goes down, they can put down another one. And since the teams are balanced, some of the aliens will be clearing a lockdown while the marines are assaulting the new hive.
So these games go like this. Both sides get RTs/Tech. Marines go kill 2nd hive, then surrounding nodes. Aliens try to defend, while some go clear the unguarded lockdown and marine nodes.
Aliens lose a hive but marines are low on res. Both sides recap more res while aliens put up a new hive.
Marines go after the new hive and the same pattern repeats.
If none of the teams slip up by making a critical error, marines eventually get HA/JP while aliens get fades and onos. By this time marines usually fail to stop the 2nd hive as LA with guns don't fare very well against many fades and lerks.
Then the HA comes onto the scene and try a siege. Aliens fight back. Game hinges on this showdown.
And these games which I get 1/10 times last about an hour.
So, balance your teams, stop reswhoring, and you may see epic-ness more often. It's dependant on the players to make it happen.
In the old days, it happened due to game design, albeit not one the devs expected.
<!--QuoteBegin-MrBananaMan+May 7 2005, 07:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrBananaMan @ May 7 2005, 07:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> to me the winning team is decided way too early in ns games. this makes me sad and i think ns has been digging itself a hole of "unblancedness" for a while now. eventually we will all realize what is so wrong with it but it wont be anytime soon. its too hard to see clearly when you are involved with the thing itself, which is playing the game in this situation. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yup, we are aware of the slippery slope effect. The problem here is that it all pretty much goes back to the Fade, which, in the right hands, is essentially too deadly, while untrained Fades are cannon fodder. A remedy to the later game issues would thus mean a redesign of likely both Fade and Onos into more complimentary roles, which is a balance task for the ages. Right now, balance and gameplay are relatively solid. Not perfect, but not game impairingly bad, either. We'll therefore invest some time into functionality not directly connected to balance and gameflow before returning to the grind.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+May 8 2005, 03:13 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ May 8 2005, 03:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-MrBananaMan+May 7 2005, 07:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrBananaMan @ May 7 2005, 07:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> to me the winning team is decided way too early in ns games. this makes me sad and i think ns has been digging itself a hole of "unblancedness" for a while now. eventually we will all realize what is so wrong with it but it wont be anytime soon. its too hard to see clearly when you are involved with the thing itself, which is playing the game in this situation. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yup, we are aware of the slippery slope effect. The problem here is that it all pretty much goes back to the Fade, which, in the right hands, is essentially too deadly, while untrained Fades are cannon fodder. A remedy to the later game issues would thus mean a redesign of likely both Fade and Onos into more complimentary roles, which is a balance task for the ages. Right now, balance and gameplay are relatively solid. Not perfect, but not game impairingly bad, either. We'll therefore invest some time into functionality not directly connected to balance and gameflow before returning to the grind. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Nemmy I find the fade fine. I suck with it but I can live with that.
The paper onos is.. scary. I do not believe a single hmg should take one down with a single clip. Up that HP to 100 more and you have won the balance game.
Extra armour is frustrating only when they are parasited yet still take 3 bites.
We'd've won your balance game, maybe, but check a given clan demo and you'll see that there is currently no way of making the Onos worth its 25 extra RP over the Fade barring the addition of nuclear weaponry.
i just read the first post and i have to say: don't say that +5 marine armor is imbalanced when you can counter it by 1) parasiting once 2) making the rine get hit by 2 ticks of spore
CheeseLork on the ClorfJoin Date: 2003-12-15Member: 24396Members, Constellation
Ok..i ll try to behave...so my question:
If the general Co-Players agree with each other that it is absolutely unplayable with the +5Armor Update...why not simply change it back. But just for Combat. Not for Classic.
+everyone would be happy -it wouldnt be exactly the same...but if you think about it...co isnt ns...with all the stackable upgrades, no buildings, no commander, etc.
So why should we hold on the armor system of ns for co if it doesnt fit it?
*uff...kind of hard to behave...* <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Tuplis+May 9 2005, 03:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tuplis @ May 9 2005, 03:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i just read the first post and i have to say: don't say that +5 marine armor is imbalanced when you can counter it by 1) parasiting once 2) making the rine get hit by 2 ticks of spore <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh nice to see more finlanders here! ho`tuplis I greet you, fruity times here!
And for "topic" havent we slided back to the fade and onos discussion? I must say that the problem is indeed the fade AND onos. Making onos somewhat more than 1-3 resources, it would need much fixing. For fades I can say that they are quite fine in most games I play, just stick with your level of gamers. It is hard to find the exact skill-break where fades turn from bipedals to anthrax.
..for me, part of what made a game epic was the idea of actually getting into a fight with marines. At this point, I really do tend to believe that both sides are overpowered. The twitch factor of NS has really increased -- attacks are more powerful, defense less so -- on both sides. This means that if you miss your first attack, chances are your dead before you've lined up your second.
Slower tech times on both sides gave both teams more of a chance to plan strategy as opposed to tactics.
Slower build/gestation times gave both teams more chance to have suspense build.
Flayra made it known that part of the reason for some of the changes that have occurred were to speed the games up. And they've worked for that. But there was something to be found in games that took longer, and I think that something is the 'epic' feeling that people are feeling is lost. If we want to recapture that epic feeling, the idea of simply slowing things back down has to be considered.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+May 8 2005, 10:13 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ May 8 2005, 10:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yup, we are aware of the slippery slope effect. The problem here is that it all pretty much goes back to the Fade, which, in the right hands, is essentially too deadly, while untrained Fades are cannon fodder. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Nem, getting that from you makes me so happy you wouldn't believe.
"Yup, we are aware of the slippery slope effect. The problem here is that it all pretty much goes back to the Fade, which, in the right hands, is essentially too deadly, while untrained Fades are cannon fodder. A remedy to the later game issues would thus mean a redesign of likely both Fade and Onos into more complimentary roles, which is a balance task for the ages."
Comments
We have a winner.
*votes for Sky to have my babies*
Atleast that way I understand why I get owned so often no matter what I do.
Atleast that way I understand why I get owned so often no matter what I do. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm actually beginning to think this, too. Both sides need a serious nerf to return the "Epic"quality of NS games.
It's about time people actually told us what the heck they mean with that word. We are asked for more epic situations, increase the average gamelength and try to reduce the slippery slope - and then get told that X has to happen to get the feeling 'back' (and I should point out that the often lauded 1.04 was not exactly forgiving?).
I and many other players are strictly against this new update, if you watch a combat game 10 minutes, you will see that now 8 from 10 times the marine only rush alien base without a chance for the aliens.
I dond't know if you guys already discuss that topic before, but I havn't found it yet.
Plz write some comments in here, experience etc. from you.
I want to know how u guys are handling this and how u think about it.
Thanks for writing,
[WT]Flexmaster <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pffft, please....
4/5s of the time marines win? Errr... sorry, I havnt seen it.
+5 armor is a welcome change. I see less early marine rapings since we take 3 bites to kill instead of 2, now. As for marines rushing, I dont think Ive ever seen a successful early marine rush more than once, or twice. Especially if the server has a safe spawn for a couple seconds, forget it.
It's about time people actually told us what the heck they mean with that word. We are asked for more epic situations, increase the average gamelength and try to reduce the slippery slope - and then get told that X has to happen to get the feeling 'back' (and I should point out that the often lauded 1.04 was not exactly forgiving?). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm... dont know if anything will return to epic feel of NS for me. Though, what I feel made NS lose the epic feeling was when marine players started expecting a certain strat and certain... uh, events to take place... build orders I guess you could call it, but that doesnt completely explain it, for each map. Another was the map modifications to the 1.xx versions. Maps seemed more, err, watered down? Its difficult to explain again.
Though I did like long games. The best three games I remember (and actually really the only games 1.xx I remember) were longer than three hours each. One, I commed for NS_Nancy, another I marined for Nancy, and the last I was a lerk in Eclipse. I get excited thinking of those three games... truely epic. Everyone cooperated and worked together, and both teams were very competant, and it took strategy to win all three.
off the original topic, but I thought I would comment on that.
I've been playing this since 1.03, and I admit, when I first started, after I'd gotten over the fact that it was going to take a while to learn the maps (gg pre-overlay map days!), I was shocked and wowed and stunned every few minutes...
Now however, I see literally nothing new each game... because I've seen it all. I still love the game, but it doesn't have that 'wow' factor it once used to - yet I was reminded of it recently when I introduced a friend to NS, and he now hasnt' shut up talking to me about it for about 3 weeks... and I mean he hasn't shut up - he doesn't talk to me unless it's about NS!!
Nothing wrong with this update if you ask me.
PS. Whoever has this sig is leet
<img src='http://img214.echo.cx/img214/1554/siggy0mo.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Long games are almost never competitive. They usually consist of one team cornering the other, who has **** for upgrades and no weapons or higher life forms.
Also, res cost. Remember in 1.0x days, the default res flow was 1 + RT. Now it's RFK + RT. And calculations done have shown RFK to produce at best 3/4 of 1 RT count throughout a game. Meaning that the old 1.0x res flow was faster than the current system.
But remember this as well. The cost of weapons were more expensive.
Arms Lab: 45 then, 20 now
Upgrades 20/40/60, now 20/30/40
HA: 25/15
Shotgun: 16/10
HMG: 25/15
GL: 31/15
Welder: 10/5
TF: 25/10
Sentry: 19/10
PG: 25/15
So marines took a VERY long time to tech up. However, the Kharaa usually took about 2 minutes to put up their first RT. A hive couldn't be put up until at least 8-10 minutes. Especially since DCs were vital and had to be dropped first.
So if the marines played the lockdown game, which they did, they'd be stuck with W1/A1, very few guns and a lockdown that wasn't very good (slow tracking turrets, no elect, mines chain blew themselves up). And just 3 RTs.
So even 2 carapaced 21-LMG shots to die skulks could cause the marines to lose a lockdown.
On the other hand, the aliens were swimming in res and couldn't fade, so you'd see massive WoLs, large number of spike lerks. If the marines lost a LD they would lose, but if they could slowly inch their way out, and cap more res nodes, they could get HA and turn the game around. The WoLs then could be made up of 8 OCs and 3 DCs, and took just a minute to drop by the sole gorge.
Of course, all this 'epic-ness' stopped the moment marines discovered JP/HMG FTW.
---
As for 'epic-ness' now, I still see it happen. About 1 in 10 of my NS games result in this, and happens when the player skill is balanced between both teams, and with the alien team placing a premium on res nodes.
If you can't get an epic game now, I can safely say it's because of the lack of the above 2 reasons. i.e. balanced teams and both teams continuing to play the res game.
Most aliens, after their first nodes, don't recap, and slowly lose the res war. If the aliens keep recapping, however, even if their 2nd hive goes down, they can put down another one. And since the teams are balanced, some of the aliens will be clearing a lockdown while the marines are assaulting the new hive.
So these games go like this. Both sides get RTs/Tech. Marines go kill 2nd hive, then surrounding nodes. Aliens try to defend, while some go clear the unguarded lockdown and marine nodes.
Aliens lose a hive but marines are low on res. Both sides recap more res while aliens put up a new hive.
Marines go after the new hive and the same pattern repeats.
If none of the teams slip up by making a critical error, marines eventually get HA/JP while aliens get fades and onos. By this time marines usually fail to stop the 2nd hive as LA with guns don't fare very well against many fades and lerks.
Then the HA comes onto the scene and try a siege. Aliens fight back. Game hinges on this showdown.
And these games which I get 1/10 times last about an hour.
So, balance your teams, stop reswhoring, and you may see epic-ness more often. It's dependant on the players to make it happen.
In the old days, it happened due to game design, albeit not one the devs expected.
Yup, we are aware of the slippery slope effect. The problem here is that it all pretty much goes back to the Fade, which, in the right hands, is essentially too deadly, while untrained Fades are cannon fodder. A remedy to the later game issues would thus mean a redesign of likely both Fade and Onos into more complimentary roles, which is a balance task for the ages.
Right now, balance and gameplay are relatively solid. Not perfect, but not game impairingly bad, either. We'll therefore invest some time into functionality not directly connected to balance and gameflow before returning to the grind.
Yup, we are aware of the slippery slope effect. The problem here is that it all pretty much goes back to the Fade, which, in the right hands, is essentially too deadly, while untrained Fades are cannon fodder. A remedy to the later game issues would thus mean a redesign of likely both Fade and Onos into more complimentary roles, which is a balance task for the ages.
Right now, balance and gameplay are relatively solid. Not perfect, but not game impairingly bad, either. We'll therefore invest some time into functionality not directly connected to balance and gameflow before returning to the grind. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nemmy I find the fade fine. I suck with it but I can live with that.
The paper onos is.. scary. I do not believe a single hmg should take one down with a single clip. Up that HP to 100 more and you have won the balance game.
Extra armour is frustrating only when they are parasited yet still take 3 bites.
1) parasiting once
2) making the rine get hit by 2 ticks of spore
If the general Co-Players agree with each other that it is absolutely unplayable with the +5Armor Update...why not simply change it back. But just for Combat. Not for Classic.
+everyone would be happy
-it wouldnt be exactly the same...but if you think about it...co isnt ns...with all the stackable upgrades, no buildings, no commander, etc.
So why should we hold on the armor system of ns for co if it doesnt fit it?
*uff...kind of hard to behave...* <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
1) parasiting once
2) making the rine get hit by 2 ticks of spore <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh nice to see more finlanders here!
ho`tuplis I greet you, fruity times here!
And for "topic" havent we slided back to the fade and onos discussion?
I must say that the problem is indeed the fade AND onos. Making onos somewhat more than 1-3 resources, it would need much fixing. For fades I can say that they are quite fine in most games I play, just stick with your level of gamers. It is hard to find the exact skill-break where fades turn from bipedals to anthrax.
..for me, part of what made a game epic was the idea of actually getting into a fight with marines. At this point, I really do tend to believe that both sides are overpowered. The twitch factor of NS has really increased -- attacks are more powerful, defense less so -- on both sides. This means that if you miss your first attack, chances are your dead before you've lined up your second.
Slower tech times on both sides gave both teams more of a chance to plan strategy as opposed to tactics.
Slower build/gestation times gave both teams more chance to have suspense build.
Flayra made it known that part of the reason for some of the changes that have occurred were to speed the games up. And they've worked for that. But there was something to be found in games that took longer, and I think that something is the 'epic' feeling that people are feeling is lost. If we want to recapture that epic feeling, the idea of simply slowing things back down has to be considered.
Nem, getting that from you makes me so happy you wouldn't believe.
Makes me happy to hear it also.