Commander Anxiety

Lord_Chambers · November 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">Give the new guys a break</div> It's a bad thing when the Marines spawn and they stand around looking at each other. It's as if they are looking for the Marine in with a bunch of medals on his uniform to come and lead them. There is a lot of stress and anxiety associated with being a commander since the whole team relies on him, and more often than not, will express when they think he's doing a poor job. You've heard it before "Um, excuse me, commander sir, I would like a Heavy Machine gun, and...if you will it so, could I have some Heavy Armor? I don't need much, just a bit to...fight the fades sir. No? Oh, that's quite alright. I disagree with your strategy, but I will continue to faithfully serve you as a vassal, place my faith in you, and my life in your hands." Not only does commander anxiety prevent people from taking the helm, but it's keeping some players from ever trying commander. That might not concern you, but realize how much insight you gain as a Marine after you've commanded a few times.
So I'd like to remind folks firstly not to bash their commanders. Suggest strategy points if he's dropping the ball, and clearly type out directions on how to do things, like upgrades, if he's a complete newbie. Yelling won't improve the situation, it'll just cause the commander to wet his pants, go into shock, and have respiratory failure. Worst of all, when he dies inside the command chair you won't know until
/\/\3gakiLL3r 2000 blows it up in anger from not getting the jetpack/heavy armor combo he's demanding (thanks 1.02 for actually fixing the Marine building FF).
Secondly, when a game is going well, or it's not savable, ask your team if there is anyone who wants to try commander. In these low stress situations when the game is going fine, or there is barely anything left to manage, a new commander can get some experience with control, moving the viewpoint around, using the mini-map, upgrading some stuff, and maybe...just maybe...using waypoints. But that's dangerous for a new commander, and it'll likely result in his head exploding. Lets provide incentives for commanders to bear the team's burden, and help them when they do. Negativity begets negativity.

Bigwig · November 2002

I agree. Save the commanders!

ctx · November 2002

I hate playing commander in public servers now because of lamers that expect the commander to automatically do everything in a split second and give them weapons and such even when you don't have the resources!

VoidMain · November 2002

I agree too. I've been commander for a few times. Still have trauma cause my first comm session. Words like "n00b" flooded my screen. Despair soon took me away from comm console. Some days later I tried comm again, and sure I was lucky. Marines aided me, teaching how to use comm features... and better than this, they teamplayed, sticked together and covered each other.

Since then I try to play comm as often as possible. There's a lot of pressure, sure... but it's also rewarding when the match ends and marines are grateful <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

So people, plz, don't stress the comm. If he doesn't give you orders, take some initiative. And if you can't get your beloved HMG/HA don?t flood calling for it. It's really anoying and doesn't let comm read more important messages. Remember comm isn't a godlike creature... he suffers like anyone else <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'>

Demerzel · November 2002

Even though I've won pretty much every game I've comm'd ( exception of first go which I took over half way through from some1 with dropped connection ), I've got to the stage where I don't want to be commander much any more. Far too often you'll get a vote against you the second someone decides that you didn't give them their armour/hmg/jetpack/other toy quick enough. "Ooh give me a jetpack comm!" - often appears 10s into the game. Often players will not listen to your commands to stick together or go to waypoints then when they die to a skulk they blame you. "Give me a shotty NOW comm" - erm, no try doing as I ask and we'll see. Or they'll complain that they need something immediately but fail to say where or use the ingame comms to make it obvious to the comm.

I've got to the stage that when i have resources, I say to people who have wandered early in my game and not helped much - "Here's armour, hmg, welder - stick with your team and weld your team8s, 'cos if you don't and die then you won't get anything again". Once you get into the middle game and resources are flowing, things start to get better as there are often resources to do what you need and your team is often working together but the beginning of a game can be a right stress giver.

Everyone should be forced to be commander at least once in the worst possible conditions with complaints raining in from all over the place, requests from here and there, need for new/replacement buildings all over the map, etc... and we'll see just how quickly respect for a good commander grows...

greydmiyu · November 2002

Agreed completely. First time in the CC was on a map that was lost and noone else wanted it. I figured we're going to lose anyway, I can do no worse than accelerate the process. I flat out said I was a new comm, never been in the CC before and don't know how to do anything. I was in only to learn. So someone asks for a waypoint to somewhere. Erm, how do I set way points? Asked 5 times on voice, thrice in team chat. The result? Not a one told me how and two were cussing me out. I told 'em to flog off since they clearly were rushing for the CC when it was empty and if they could do a better job, they're welcome to have it. They cussed me out again I dropped out of the CC with a "Be my guest, show me how it's done." Neither of the complainers stepped up and I didn't hop into the seat again for a few days.

Even now I won't command. I far prefer sitting in back, building what needs to be built, welding the grunts up front and just doing the work that a comm needs done that it seems 90% of the yahoos don't want to do.

I will say this, I now defend a lot of actions a comm takes and explain why things are happening. Like explaining why we're waiting around in a hive and not getting another turret (only 12 resources, you see) or why a commander on the final seige will rarely heal (2 resources when we're strapped and trying to make a breakout is too much, die and respawn, it is less costly in the long run) or why ammo isn't coming after the 10th request (lazy bones is standing next to a teleporter that I built which goes back to the base teleporter, that I built, which is right next to an ammo station, which I built. He'd rather sit in the hive clicking his empty pistol and enticing every skulk from here to St. Swivin's day to decend on him for 2 minutes than take the 30s to teleport, stock up, teleport back).

Doombringer · November 2002

Yes, good point.

Nothing is more ironic than a new game, with 10 marines, all saying "I'm not commander".. and when someone finally takes the chair and isn't very skilled.. everyone screams "Our commander sucks!" or generally verbally abuses him ("Thank's for putting that **obscenity** turret on top of me, **obscenity**!"). It's even funnier when they eject him and nobody takes the chair to replace him.

Being commander isn't worth it. There's praise when you win, but one screw-up will get you a whole lotta hate :/

And greydmiyu, I'm in the same boat. I'm a follower, not a leader. If you need something built, something or someone welded, aliens splattered or a hive secured, I'm more than happy to help. Give me a waypoint and off I go <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Injury · November 2002

Some people have a natural knack for commander and I honestly believe everyone should give it a go at least once to see how they fare. I typically prefer being a grunt. Down in the dirt is where the fun is, however I can command if necessary. My experiences with Marine teams vary widely from bad commanders/players to a well organized team.

Unfortunately, the commander does not get as much praise as you think, especially from the folks who sit in spawn half the game asking for an HMG from the first minute on. All of us would prefer a bigger, better gun, but what exactly is wrong with the Light Machine Gun and normal Armor? Sure, taking an objective is easier with a heavy weapon and some colossus armor, but that can be accomplished early to mid game with a well rounded light squad of Marines. When the time is right (mid-game by my estimate), go ahead and request, but in the first five minutes try to be productive so that your team <b>survives</b> long enough to acquire those coveted bringers of death

The biggest problem still and most likely will be the repeated requests for weapons - by the Marines - from the Commander. My humble advice is to do the best you can and not worry about the weapons, your commander has his job to do and asking for something that may or may not be possible will not help. The commander will most certainly try to equip the team with the best weapons and armor available when he can, yelling at him does not improve the situation. If you do a good job, secure locations, destroy enemy bases there is a higher chance of your team getting more resources, enabling the commander to assist you with goodies. Take note, most experienced commanders from what I've seen completely <b>ignore</b> people who scream about equipment all game. Most often than not, the benefits are more likely to go to the player(s) who contribute the most to the team. Quite simple really, you do as much as you can for the team, your commander will try and support his "best" Marine. I understand that there are bad commanders out there, but that's why there's nearly 500 servers for you to play on. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Battousaix · November 2002

The most important, and harder thing to achieve as a commander is making your marines confident and safe with you commanding them......

Aaron · November 2002

Also, marines have to remember that the commander is not their mother. He CANNOT always give you want you want, health, ammo, whatever. Sometimes it is your lot to just "do and die", and respawn and don't complain. What really annoys me as a player is when other people are whining for this and that and harrassing the comm. I just quietly move ahead and die and respawn instead of giving a Christmas list of items to comm. It is sometimes (especially early in the game) much more efficient to just start out without any provisions, attack and then die...comm didn't spend any resources on you, so there is nothing to lose if you die (other than waiting to respawn).

The games I've had most fun as comm are the ones where the players actively coordinate amongst themselves ("Hey, let's get horseshoe." "Ok! Meet at base"), and then I'm basically just provisioning them as them move. The responsibility for leadership has to be shared.

FlatlineUTD · November 2002

I comm in about 90% of the games that I play as marine. I try to play on the same servers (all public), so some people know that I'm pretty good. If people start yelling at me, not following orders, or anything like that, I just don't give them what they ask for until they start working with the rest of the team. Simple as that. Some Rambo screaming for health and ammo in the middle of some place where you never told them to go? Don't help them.

Even if they try to vote you out, if you've been helping the rest of the team that's working together, the vote won't pass. I've personally never been voted out of the CC, and I'm sure I've **obscenity** a lot of n00bs constantly asking for guns off.

DjArcas · November 2002

Two things... first of all, do I have to teach EVERY commander I fight under how to command? meh...

Secondly, there's a great flip side... had one game, 3 ace marines and a 'hero' under my command... the 3 marines were being a great team, the loner was useless... when we hit HA/HMG, etc, he started piping up 'HA'

Ah.

But, NO, little marine. You're not having a gun. You die every 25 seconds. You're a waste of resources. If I could kick you and get a better player on my team, I would. In fact, you're not getting squat until you follow orders.

He did, too <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'>

greydmiyu · November 2002

I gotta ask, am I the only grunt that that doesn't like HA/HMG in the late game unless I'm on a team with a siege? I prefer the manuverability of no armor. Jetpacks, tried 'em, don't like 'em. It also makes a nice divisor when we're moving forward. In one game we had three HA and two grunts advance on Hera Reception. We took it and the commander started dropping down items to secure it. The two light grunts started building and when one in HA joined in I said on comm, "Heavies guard, lights build." He stopped instantly.

It only makes sense. We're going to be a target. When building it is often more important to get the structures up fast than living. Ya just simply don't want to spend more than 10 resources on a person that's going to be under constant fire and die 1/2 the time to get that job done. Those 10 resources? Welder to repair the heavies and the forward base equipment. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Mindmeldme · November 2002

For new commanders...there are a number of threads and tips out there in the frontiersman strategy section to look thruogh. Flatline alone even has an excellent Pinned post you should read. It can be very hard to command for the first time. Some marines are ok...they will try to help you...they themselves don't want to command but have ideas you should listen to. Others will be diffucult to command. it takes time and patience to learn to command and get used to the stress. I myself have freaked out a bit from time to time from people not listening or a battle going poorly due to lack of teamwork. It happens...you'll do better as you command more. Find a god server...get used to some of the regulars...develop your skills a bit before you start commanding the first time. Some games with a poor alien team it's ok for you to go at it...other times with more expeirnced opponents you may not want to try your hand the first time as the team wants to win rather then train you. Don't worry, it happens...practice, watch, learn. Your time will come to prove yourself.

Acrobad · November 2002

well stated.

I must say I'm ashamed that I was frustrated at some games... Especailly the one where Lord Chamber was commanding, all was going well and had 2 hives, until someone new wanted to try commanding and got us to lose the game because he doesn't know how to build or upgrade stuff.

Come to think of it, he was new. And the aliens were aggressive and stuff.
Althought I didn't really stated verbally in the game, but I was blaming him for losing the game...

I'm ashamed and I hope I'll keep a clear head next time I see new commanders and just try to help out.

coil · November 2002

If you want to see some amazing commanding, check out <a href='http://www.vu.union.edu/~torresj/files/demos/TAUvsEC.zip' target='_blank'>this demo of a match between EC and TAU</a>. In the first round, EC are marines and Cyanide shows off some simply BRILLIANT tactics as commander. Really a lot to be learned from watching demos; I hope NS fansites put up strategy sections and host demos for people to watch and learn from.

ekent · November 2002

I would actually like some more demos of NS clan play. Does EC have anymore? The thread where that was originally linked has a couple but the links don't work.

Thanks in advance <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Lord_Chambers · November 2002

Forgive me if I'm out of line in posting this.
<a href='http://www.vu.union.edu/~torresj/files/demos/' target='_blank'>http://www.vu.union.edu/~torresj/files/demos/</a>

Xentor · November 2002

I've played one full game as commander on eclipse... Well, close... First a complete fool started as commander, built the entire base backwards (Left all the important structures undefended, etc)... So when I took over, I was already a bit behind...

Luckily, the aliens weren't organized (This was a few days after halloween, so we were all n00bs)... After the first 5 minutes, I had a good idea of all the controls and the upgrade paths (Yes, I read the manual.... Strange, huh?)

So anyway, it went pretty well... As someone said earlier in this thread, you really do learn the game a lot better once you've played the commander role... I wasn't giving many waypoints, but there were 2 marines who took the initiative, and most of the others followed them around like dogs on leashes...

We took one of the hives easily... The triad array flip-flopped back and forth between marine and alien control... The south loop kept getting raided... But gradually we gained ground, and moved in towards the last hive...

By this time, the third hive had so many turrets it would have taken an hour to bash through it, even with grenades and HMGs.

So we had set up a small base right outside their hive (Around a couple corners), and 4 of my 7 troops were there, building turrets. One was at the south loop rebuilding it, and two were wandering around aimlessly. Now, out of the 4 at the minibase, one was following every order to the letter. He was building up the turrets and an armory (I had plenty of resources to spare), but the other three were just stupid.

Those three had HA and HMGs, but no skill whatsoever... They started to head around the corner towards the huge walls of O-chambers, and I started saying on the mic over and over again (While setting their waypoint to the minibase) "Stay back, I'm going to siege it! DO NOT ADVANCE! [You], [You], and [You], pull back to the minibase! If you advance like that, you're going to die! PULL BACK OR YOU WILL DIE!" I must have said it a dozen times, and by the end I was yelling at them, while they kept typing stuff like "there's turrets there! lets kill them!"...

So you know what happened? They ran into a wall of O-chambers, and died in seconds from a barrage of turret fire and acid rockets (There were still a few fades left).

What happened next was my favorite part... When they respawned, they instantly started begging for HA/HMG... I set their waypoints and told them firmly "Go to your waypoint, and I'll give you your equipment there." For almost 2 minutes they kept demanding it, and I believe one of them finally said "Fine, but if we die on the way there, I'm voting you out!" Of course, the aliens were pinned down in their hive, and there were no O-chambers on the way there, so it was perfectly safe. They got there, and I gave them HA (Not HMG) and got them to build siege turrets. Once they did that, it was over in a couple minutes.

So the moral of this story... Listen to your damn commander! He has a better perspective on the map, and you'll have a better chance of winning if you're cooperative!

I'll command again eventually, but I find it more fun to play a grunt under a good comm... Unlike some of the idiots out there, I follow orders.

WaffleSpoon · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Doombringer @ Nov 20 2002, 03:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Yes, good point.

Nothing is more ironic than a new game, with 10 marines, all saying "I'm not commander".. and when someone finally takes the chair and isn't very skilled.. everyone screams "Our commander sucks!" or generally verbally abuses him ("Thank's for putting that **obscenity** turret on top of me, **obscenity**!"). It's even funnier when they eject him and nobody takes the chair to replace him.

Being commander isn't worth it. There's praise when you win, but one screw-up will get you a whole lotta hate :/

And greydmiyu, I'm in the same boat. I'm a follower, not a leader. If you need something built, something or someone welded, aliens splattered or a hive secured, I'm more than happy to help. Give me a waypoint and off I go <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Yeah, Im also one of those "low cost, give-me-waypoint-and-I-will-build-dat-nozzle, non-complaining" type of marines. I enjoy it greatly as it seems to me, whenever I ask for a welder or perhaps a medpack, I get tons of it, as a thank you for setting up basically everything the commander puts in front of me.

But, I really like the leading role and its sometimes hard to take that right turn to build yet another sentry, instead of going left when u know you can save somebody since it would put u right behind the enemy. But, I've never really tried commanding more than a few times, and then it just evolved into "need armour" "no, build this first" "**obscenity** you commander! Gimme my HA" so.. I just leave it there.. =/

BTW, a player named "ph4t rabbit" is one of the best commanders I've had the honor to play with, since he seemed to have the reaction time of a split second for about every need out there. Yay =)

MEShootHere · November 2002

Always the same really..
Marines go "SUCKY COMM!" but when a waypoint is given, do they go to it? no! They sit in the base whining for "HA AND HMG PLZKTHX!". It annoys the jeebus outta me, which is why i never play marine unless teams need balancing.
New guys should be given a break, surely, but there is also a limit. One SHOULD be capable of comming, because if you let your resources go up to like 300 without doing anything with'em, its not n00bness, its plain stupidity. Sure everybody has to learn but dont take the comm chair unless yer willing to try for the whole sit. How often doesnt it happen that the comm is away, doesnt react and comes back "Sorry had to eat dinner" or whatever...ugh..
People should chill more, marines should listen better and commanders should be willing to learn.

Paralys · November 2002

I'm looking forward to playing in a clan match (i've only been NS pubbing as of yet) but I have noticed a bunch of things while being commander.

Marines take teamwork, and thats what it comes down to. In pubs, this is really hard to organize. Most of the time I am commanding (in pubs) I can get about half my team to work as a team while the other half go out on their own and usually get owned by aliens. Now I could be wrong but that really makes it hard for the marines to win.

Once in a while I'll get a team where 90% of the players know what they are doing and we can easily run over a decent alien team because people know hive locations, how to weld, how to back each other up, and how to get things done without me telling them how to walk, etc.

So to make this short I am sure these commander woes will become less and less as the gameplay becomes more familiar to the new ns community.

mouth · November 2002

I don't think it's going to stop any time soon. In fact, i think that this will be something that "vets" will be complaining about months down the line as popularity grows and we get more runoff from CS servers.

The best thing we can do in these situations is <b>stick up for the commander</b>. Even if you're the only person on your team doing so, a voicecomm message stating in a clear, cool voice that these people need to drink a can of shut-the-hell-up can do wonders. Remind them that the commander is at the top of the foodchain here. Also remind them that people are not simply born with the knowledge of the intricacies of being a commander/marine/gorge. Everyone has to learn somehow. Yeah, even you, Mr. Johnny "i've been playing this mod since the start" Badass. You started off simple too, except you didn't notice it because <i>everyone</i> sucked as much as you did back then.

It doesn't matter if you're going to lose because of a newbie commander. These are not clan matches, and i personally would prefer to keep the "pro" clan mentality and their over-emphasis on winning clear away from pub servers. You have nothing to lose by being patient with an inexperienced commander or player, but we all have something to gain from it. This game already has a pretty steep learning curve, so ease up a bit. And encourage others to ease up while you're at it.

Commander Anxiety

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