<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+May 26 2005, 07:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ May 26 2005, 07:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Nadagast+May 26 2005, 06:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nadagast @ May 26 2005, 06:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Depot+May 24 2005, 07:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ May 24 2005, 07:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Strategically placed OCs early game can hinder marine advancement. Play for fun man, and don't bother even replying to the jerks. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> *EVERYONE* plays for fun. Some people have fun by winning, others by dicking around, and other people have fun in other random ways. Just because you enjoy doing whatever is fun to you doesn't mean that people who play to win are 'jerks'. I think it's your attitude that is the problem. I see way too many players who "play for fun" attempt to take some sort of moral high ground where people who have fun winning are bad, evil people. Don't do it please. You're just being a major hypocrite. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If anything they get the moral low ground, because thier ruining the game for us, whereas our play style doesn't hurt them at all unless we start griping at how retarded it is to have 4 ocs dropped first thing where rines will just jump over them anyways. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Some people's fun is restricting the skill of others through stupidity.
IT'S TRUE! I do this a lot while smurfing. YOU MAY NOT KNOW WHO THAT "ACCIDENTAL" BLOCKERSKULK/GORGE WAS, BUT NOW YOU DO. Fade/Onos??? Nnnnnooooooo, you BURN AND DIE and have to play as a skulk again to beat the marines because it's more fun to win the game with skulks and maybe some lerks than with your fade.
I play NS to give enemy marines skulk-boosts into high-up vents to hide them away, because I am a peaceful and domesticated skulk and do not wish to see the poor marines get all bitey-fied by the meaner aliens on my team. :o Eventually I think if I did this enough I would have a big collection of my own personal marine boost-slaves, to complete my every skulk-ly desire. Then I wouldn't have to change into a gorge, I'd just make the marines build homes for the alien team with like two-by-fours and stucco.
There's always one marine who wants a free boost to the Viaduct walkway or the powersilo top or something. Ask around in world-chat if any of the marines want to sign a temporary declaration of peace in order to work together in the name of great justice, and having marines in really really wierd vents and crazy high places.
Also secretly I let the marines put me on a leash and give me walks to indulge my leather bondage-skulk fantasies and they won't do it if I'm all mean and stuff to them.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The words of the people shocked me a little.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this is the internet for crying out loud
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In the start of the game, aliens always have this tactic where a few Skulks rush to Resource Nozzels and place some RTs.
Now, I 've always seen that, and done that, and I am tired of doing the same damn thing, so instead, I placed an OC at an area where I know marines often pass through.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
theres a time and place for oc's, the start of the game is not it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It went on for awhile. And guess what? Majority of the aliens all told me that Winning = Fun. Losing is not fun at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
guess what? its real people youre playing with. besides, youre exaggerating and you know it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Are all the NS-players so victory-hungry nowadays?! Since when was winning = fun?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
winning has been fun ever since people started playing "games". stone age that is, or something.
Actually OCs at the start is perfectly viable in pub games, provided they are in the right place. The downside is that the gorge who dropped the OCs has to stick with them and fend off the marines until they can afford more chambers. The resaon this is a viable strategy on pubs is deterance. If you survive the initial response (often quite easy with ambushing skulk support) then the marines tend to switch to different routes. Using this strategy it is possible to protect one side of the map leaving most of the rest of the team to defend the other side, as the marines take more predictable paths, then if they had access to the blocked route.
This only works as long as it <i>seems</i> like more hassle to clear the OCs than it is to expand in a different direction. The reality is that the marines are better off clearing the OCs though because otherwise the aliens are effectively able to control the marine's expansion through the map.
Only if the rt survives... My point is that early OCs are doable and infact provide a similar advantage to dropping an SC near a choke point. It is just a trade off of res for map control.
Except an sc actually has a chance at surviving, not to mention it's a lot more beneficial to have cloaked aliens (and sof in the area), rather than to have a single extra light damage source. 2 marines can take down a single oc in ~20 seconds.
The gorge only needs 5 more res for the second OC, plus as I think I said, OCs last a lot longer when the gorge hangs around and heals them. Equally, a proper attack will clear them, which doesn't mean that a proper attack will happen. Just as a commander who knows where and when to scan can make sure the sense choke point doesn't last very long.
TheAdjHe demanded a cool forum title of some type.Join Date: 2004-05-03Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+May 26 2005, 07:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ May 26 2005, 07:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Nadagast+May 26 2005, 06:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nadagast @ May 26 2005, 06:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Depot+May 24 2005, 07:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ May 24 2005, 07:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Strategically placed OCs early game can hinder marine advancement. Play for fun man, and don't bother even replying to the jerks. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> *EVERYONE* plays for fun. Some people have fun by winning, others by dicking around, and other people have fun in other random ways. Just because you enjoy doing whatever is fun to you doesn't mean that people who play to win are 'jerks'. I think it's your attitude that is the problem. I see way too many players who "play for fun" attempt to take some sort of moral high ground where people who have fun winning are bad, evil people. Don't do it please. You're just being a major hypocrite. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If anything they get the moral low ground, because thier ruining the game for us, whereas our play style doesn't hurt them at all unless we start griping at how retarded it is to have 4 ocs dropped first thing where rines will just jump over them anyways. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think you sir are full of horseshit. Listen to what you're saying, then read what Nada just said. "Those bad evil people who play to win are ruining my game because I play for fun!! They should be ashamed of themselves, playing to have fun instead of only thinking of other people's ideas of fun!"
Not too many people are out to ruin the game for other people. Playing for fun and playing to win are exactly the same thing, because those who play to win are having fun in the process. Simply because someone else doesn't have the same idea of fun as you not only does not make them take the "moral low ground" while you occupy the mountain of high morality way above them. If it ruins the game for you, it's simply because you allow it to in your head.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sky+May 26 2005, 08:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ May 26 2005, 08:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Except an sc actually has a chance at surviving, not to mention it's a lot more beneficial to have cloaked aliens (and sof in the area), rather than to have a single extra light damage source. 2 marines can take down a single oc in ~20 seconds. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> one marine can take down an oc in ~ 20 seconds. It takes 9 seconds to unload and reload an LMG, 2 concentrated LMG clips = dead OC. If you corner sneak you can usually kill a poorly placed OC in 3 clips.
<!--QuoteBegin-TheAdj+May 26 2005, 09:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheAdj @ May 26 2005, 09:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+May 26 2005, 07:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ May 26 2005, 07:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Nadagast+May 26 2005, 06:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nadagast @ May 26 2005, 06:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Depot+May 24 2005, 07:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ May 24 2005, 07:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Strategically placed OCs early game can hinder marine advancement. Play for fun man, and don't bother even replying to the jerks. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> *EVERYONE* plays for fun. Some people have fun by winning, others by dicking around, and other people have fun in other random ways. Just because you enjoy doing whatever is fun to you doesn't mean that people who play to win are 'jerks'. I think it's your attitude that is the problem. I see way too many players who "play for fun" attempt to take some sort of moral high ground where people who have fun winning are bad, evil people. Don't do it please. You're just being a major hypocrite. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If anything they get the moral low ground, because thier ruining the game for us, whereas our play style doesn't hurt them at all unless we start griping at how retarded it is to have 4 ocs dropped first thing where rines will just jump over them anyways. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think you sir are full of horseshit. Listen to what you're saying, then read what Nada just said. "Those bad evil people who play to win are ruining my game because I play for fun!! They should be ashamed of themselves, playing to have fun instead of only thinking of other people's ideas of fun!"
Not too many people are out to ruin the game for other people. Playing for fun and playing to win are exactly the same thing, because those who play to win are having fun in the process. Simply because someone else doesn't have the same idea of fun as you not only does not make them take the "moral low ground" while you occupy the mountain of high morality way above them. If it ruins the game for you, it's simply because you allow it to in your head. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Adj, I play to win, I said so as one of the first responses to this topic. I'm agreeing with nada compleatly.
[edit] dicking around ruins my game because if I'm on your team I have to suffer a res hit, which means I get hive 2 up later, I have to wait longer to fade, and marines get map control over whereever it is you should be defending.
<!--QuoteBegin-Talion+May 26 2005, 10:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talion @ May 26 2005, 10:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The gorge only needs 5 more res for the second OC, plus as I think I said, OCs last a lot longer when the gorge hangs around and heals them. Equally, a proper attack will clear them, which doesn't mean that a proper attack will happen. Just as a commander who knows where and when to scan can make sure the sense choke point doesn't last very long. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Think of it this way. If an attack comes, that oc is going down regardless of whether or not there's a gorge there. If the gorge has two ocs, it'll probably take 3-4 marines to take down the ocs. If the attack doesn't come, then it's because the marines are elsewhere doing something important, not because that magical oc is keeping them away. The oc isn't doing it's "job" if the attack never comes; it's just sitting there while the marines are raping some other section of the map. And while that gorge is sitting htere doing nothing, tending to his ocs, he <i>isn't</i> skulking, so that's one less skulk to worry about (not to mention he'll gain res exceedingly slow, because there's fewer rts than there should be).
I play for fun, that's why I'm a big advocate of F4. If the game is obviously over and the winning team is dragging their feet about finishing it off I think its just a big waste of time.
But the best games are when everybody is playing to win and are really doing their best and are willing to work together. But often on pubs where I play that is usually not the case so I have no qualms about pressing F4.
As usual there are different opinions. I play for fun and experience. Some just play for winning (play to win). Play to win is the most boring style of play and quite ironic it’s so widespread in Natural Selection.
The ability to doubt a usual procedure and tryout different procedures (like building a OC at a probable hotspot) is a thing that differs humans from animals.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sky+May 27 2005, 09:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ May 27 2005, 09:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Think of it this way. If an attack comes, that oc is going down regardless of whether or not there's a gorge there. If the gorge has two ocs, it'll probably take 3-4 marines to take down the ocs. If the attack doesn't come, then it's because the marines are elsewhere doing something important, not because that magical oc is keeping them away. The oc isn't doing it's "job" if the attack never comes; it's just sitting there while the marines are raping some other section of the map. And while that gorge is sitting htere doing nothing, tending to his ocs, he <i>isn't</i> skulking, so that's one less skulk to worry about (not to mention he'll gain res exceedingly slow, because there's fewer rts than there should be). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> First of all I just want to reiterate that I'm talking about the pub enviroment, so don't assume perfect marines.
Yes the OCs die quickly to an organised group of marines. What I'm saying is that in the early game marines tend to split up a lot in order to gain as many resource towers as possible. This particular strategy is designed to force marines to work together or lose. If a marine wonders into 2 OCs and an unupgraded gorge, on their own then they either die or are forced to back off. If they die then they feed the gorge which allows the gorge to more quickly drop an upgrade chamber, which improves the OCs survival chances even more. I'm not saying there isn't downsides to this strategy, I'm well aware that the gorge can't afford to wonder off and is basically stuck there until the marines either break through or there are enough DCs present for the gorge to risk leaving. What I am saying is that the advantages provided by map control, such as having multiple 'safe' resource towers which most likely won't be attacked before the choke point is cleared, can be enough of a benefit to out weigh the loss of initial resource gathering speed.
This is where I actually get on topic, as this strategy is an example of a way aliens can help marines to learn to work together and thus hopefully cause a more challenging and therefore enjoyable game.
You know, I'm certain this occured to a lot of you already, but this topic was doomed to be biased by the time it summized what makes casual players play the game as 'fun', and called the competitive player's motivations 'victory'. There are, as becomes apparent to anyone playing with open eyes and ears, dozens of motivations for both generic playing styles, and they all are enjoyable, 'fun', in a way.
Why I play NS? Well, for fun. But what my "fun" is? - Doing something weird with anyone else (trying to protect marine from alien comrades when their base is lost, healspray commander etc.) - To win - Improve in all sections (except comm, I'm just too scared) - Being useful and getting credits from it
<!--QuoteBegin-Talion+May 27 2005, 07:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talion @ May 27 2005, 07:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Sky+May 27 2005, 09:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ May 27 2005, 09:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Think of it this way. If an attack comes, that oc is going down regardless of whether or not there's a gorge there. If the gorge has two ocs, it'll probably take 3-4 marines to take down the ocs. If the attack doesn't come, then it's because the marines are elsewhere doing something important, not because that magical oc is keeping them away. The oc isn't doing it's "job" if the attack never comes; it's just sitting there while the marines are raping some other section of the map. And while that gorge is sitting htere doing nothing, tending to his ocs, he <i>isn't</i> skulking, so that's one less skulk to worry about (not to mention he'll gain res exceedingly slow, because there's fewer rts than there should be). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> First of all I just want to reiterate that I'm talking about the pub enviroment, so don't assume perfect marines.
Yes the OCs die quickly to an organised group of marines. What I'm saying is that in the early game marines tend to split up a lot in order to gain as many resource towers as possible. This particular strategy is designed to force marines to work together or lose. If a marine wonders into 2 OCs and an unupgraded gorge, on their own then they either die or are forced to back off. If they die then they feed the gorge which allows the gorge to more quickly drop an upgrade chamber, which improves the OCs survival chances even more. I'm not saying there isn't downsides to this strategy, I'm well aware that the gorge can't afford to wonder off and is basically stuck there until the marines either break through or there are enough DCs present for the gorge to risk leaving. What I am saying is that the advantages provided by map control, such as having multiple 'safe' resource towers which most likely won't be attacked before the choke point is cleared, can be enough of a benefit to out weigh the loss of initial resource gathering speed.
This is where I actually get on topic, as this strategy is an example of a way aliens can help marines to learn to work together and thus hopefully cause a more challenging and therefore enjoyable game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 2 marines > 1 oc. I know marines split up in the early game, but odds are there are groups of at least 2 marines wandering around, and if they find you you're screwed. That's an unnecessary risk in the early game, especially considering how important the very first few minutes are in NS. You can argue all of the benefits behind the strategy that you want, the fact is that there is no way dropping one oc can be MORE strategically beneficial to the aliens in the first few minutes than dropping an rt.
And I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that pub aliens don't choose their strats based on how well they teach marines. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Play for fun... wherever that brings a loss or a win is a thing I dont care about... When im a rine commander I manage to hold out and put up a good fight, make the team work hard and at the end everyone is shouting good game, even though the game whent on for over 40 mins and at the end we were constantly fighting something away off our armory...
Oc is fun if you put it in a good place and manage to hold of the rines for a long time (assist it by healing it, spitting yourself at the marines) OC isn't useless, it is only if you either don't spam or dont support it...
<!--QuoteBegin-Sky+May 28 2005, 02:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ May 28 2005, 02:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 2 marines > 1 oc. I know marines split up in the early game, but odds are there are groups of at least 2 marines wandering around, and if they find you you're screwed. That's an unnecessary risk in the early game, especially considering how important the very first few minutes are in NS. You can argue all of the benefits behind the strategy that you want, the fact is that there is no way dropping one oc can be MORE strategically beneficial to the aliens in the first few minutes than dropping an rt.
And I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that pub aliens don't choose their strats based on how well they teach marines. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I haven't tried to argue that 1 OC is better than 2 marines. I've tried to argue that 2 OCs and a gorge are. Besides of your going to pit 2 marines against the OCs shouldn't you throw in a skulk as well on the basis that aliens can react faster than marines? As to how it can be more beneficial, how beneficial is it to drop an rt and then lose it? When this strategy works (and it has done on more than one occasion, though I don't claim it is the ideal strategy for someone who is good at skulking), it provides protection to the resource towers dropped by other team members.
Ultimately this strategy is a wall, if the marines can get over it, then it is useless, if they can't then they are going to lose (more or less). In the process it happens to teach marines to stick together and I personally enjoy a game more when both sides are working together.
I believe it's a kind of attitude you have to have with people who don't speak englsh very often (well). <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Scylla+May 27 2005, 05:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Scylla @ May 27 2005, 05:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As usual there are different opinions. I play for fun and experience. Some just play for winning (play to win). Play to win is the most boring style of play and quite ironic it’s so widespread in Natural Selection. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Playing to win is not fun <b>in your opinion</b>. That doesn't make it wrong.
I play to win of course, I don't mind once the game is out of hand to engage in foolish antics because losing in NS is more fun than any game I've ever played.
But mainly I play to win, I talk a lot on the mic but only to help teamwork and coordination, which is fun to me because it lets us win, plus you get a better score working together... which helps win
Whats fun for me, is avoiding public servers, I gain nothing from playing public servers what-so-ever, and thats where my fun lies, in improving myself through playing equal or higher skilled people, in the 6 on 6 environment I love, every now and then I take a look in a public server, and people are yelling at eachother, even people with an apparent lack of understanding of how to stay alive. It not fun for me to have to be in that environment, so I avoid public servers now, in the pursuit of fun.
Games were made to be fun guys!! not to be winning around for losing or etc, etc. I play for fun and teamwork. I've played in a lot of servers and imo, most players are useless or selfish. Where is the teamwork guys!!!!! Games are based on communication and teamwork. I've seen very skilled players but they don't want teamwork or they don't share teamwork.
And, I think that you learn from both winning and loosing. Besides, it's just a freaking game isn't it. What's all the winning about.
Comments
*EVERYONE* plays for fun. Some people have fun by winning, others by dicking around, and other people have fun in other random ways. Just because you enjoy doing whatever is fun to you doesn't mean that people who play to win are 'jerks'. I think it's your attitude that is the problem. I see way too many players who "play for fun" attempt to take some sort of moral high ground where people who have fun winning are bad, evil people. Don't do it please. You're just being a major hypocrite. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If anything they get the moral low ground, because thier ruining the game for us, whereas our play style doesn't hurt them at all unless we start griping at how retarded it is to have 4 ocs dropped first thing where rines will just jump over them anyways. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some people's fun is restricting the skill of others through stupidity.
I play NS to give enemy marines skulk-boosts into high-up vents to hide them away, because I am a peaceful and domesticated skulk and do not wish to see the poor marines get all bitey-fied by the meaner aliens on my team. :o Eventually I think if I did this enough I would have a big collection of my own personal marine boost-slaves, to complete my every skulk-ly desire. Then I wouldn't have to change into a gorge, I'd just make the marines build homes for the alien team with like two-by-fours and stucco.
There's always one marine who wants a free boost to the Viaduct walkway or the powersilo top or something. Ask around in world-chat if any of the marines want to sign a temporary declaration of peace in order to work together in the name of great justice, and having marines in really really wierd vents and crazy high places.
Also secretly I let the marines put me on a leash and give me walks to indulge my leather bondage-skulk fantasies and they won't do it if I'm all mean and stuff to them.
this is the internet for crying out loud
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In the start of the game, aliens always have this tactic where a few Skulks rush to Resource Nozzels and place some RTs.
Now, I 've always seen that, and done that, and I am tired of doing the same damn thing, so instead, I placed an OC at an area where I know marines often pass through.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
theres a time and place for oc's, the start of the game is not it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It went on for awhile. And guess what? Majority of the aliens all told me that Winning = Fun. Losing is not fun at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
guess what? its real people youre playing with. besides, youre exaggerating and you know it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Are all the NS-players so victory-hungry nowadays?! Since when was winning = fun?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
winning has been fun ever since people started playing "games". stone age that is, or something.
This only works as long as it <i>seems</i> like more hassle to clear the OCs than it is to expand in a different direction. The reality is that the marines are better off clearing the OCs though because otherwise the aliens are effectively able to control the marine's expansion through the map.
My point is that early OCs are doable and infact provide a similar advantage to dropping an SC near a choke point. It is just a trade off of res for map control.
*EVERYONE* plays for fun. Some people have fun by winning, others by dicking around, and other people have fun in other random ways. Just because you enjoy doing whatever is fun to you doesn't mean that people who play to win are 'jerks'. I think it's your attitude that is the problem. I see way too many players who "play for fun" attempt to take some sort of moral high ground where people who have fun winning are bad, evil people. Don't do it please. You're just being a major hypocrite. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If anything they get the moral low ground, because thier ruining the game for us, whereas our play style doesn't hurt them at all unless we start griping at how retarded it is to have 4 ocs dropped first thing where rines will just jump over them anyways. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you sir are full of horseshit. Listen to what you're saying, then read what Nada just said. "Those bad evil people who play to win are ruining my game because I play for fun!! They should be ashamed of themselves, playing to have fun instead of only thinking of other people's ideas of fun!"
Not too many people are out to ruin the game for other people. Playing for fun and playing to win are exactly the same thing, because those who play to win are having fun in the process. Simply because someone else doesn't have the same idea of fun as you not only does not make them take the "moral low ground" while you occupy the mountain of high morality way above them. If it ruins the game for you, it's simply because you allow it to in your head.
one marine can take down an oc in ~ 20 seconds. It takes 9 seconds to unload and reload an LMG, 2 concentrated LMG clips = dead OC. If you corner sneak you can usually kill a poorly placed OC in 3 clips.
*EVERYONE* plays for fun. Some people have fun by winning, others by dicking around, and other people have fun in other random ways. Just because you enjoy doing whatever is fun to you doesn't mean that people who play to win are 'jerks'. I think it's your attitude that is the problem. I see way too many players who "play for fun" attempt to take some sort of moral high ground where people who have fun winning are bad, evil people. Don't do it please. You're just being a major hypocrite. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If anything they get the moral low ground, because thier ruining the game for us, whereas our play style doesn't hurt them at all unless we start griping at how retarded it is to have 4 ocs dropped first thing where rines will just jump over them anyways. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you sir are full of horseshit. Listen to what you're saying, then read what Nada just said. "Those bad evil people who play to win are ruining my game because I play for fun!! They should be ashamed of themselves, playing to have fun instead of only thinking of other people's ideas of fun!"
Not too many people are out to ruin the game for other people. Playing for fun and playing to win are exactly the same thing, because those who play to win are having fun in the process. Simply because someone else doesn't have the same idea of fun as you not only does not make them take the "moral low ground" while you occupy the mountain of high morality way above them. If it ruins the game for you, it's simply because you allow it to in your head. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Adj, I play to win, I said so as one of the first responses to this topic. I'm agreeing with nada compleatly.
[edit] dicking around ruins my game because if I'm on your team I have to suffer a res hit, which means I get hive 2 up later, I have to wait longer to fade, and marines get map control over whereever it is you should be defending.
Think of it this way. If an attack comes, that oc is going down regardless of whether or not there's a gorge there. If the gorge has two ocs, it'll probably take 3-4 marines to take down the ocs. If the attack doesn't come, then it's because the marines are elsewhere doing something important, not because that magical oc is keeping them away. The oc isn't doing it's "job" if the attack never comes; it's just sitting there while the marines are raping some other section of the map. And while that gorge is sitting htere doing nothing, tending to his ocs, he <i>isn't</i> skulking, so that's one less skulk to worry about (not to mention he'll gain res exceedingly slow, because there's fewer rts than there should be).
But the best games are when everybody is playing to win and are really doing their best and are willing to work together. But often on pubs where I play that is usually not the case so I have no qualms about pressing F4.
The ability to doubt a usual procedure and tryout different procedures (like building a OC at a probable hotspot) is a thing that differs humans from animals.
if you know what I mean :S
First of all I just want to reiterate that I'm talking about the pub enviroment, so don't assume perfect marines.
Yes the OCs die quickly to an organised group of marines. What I'm saying is that in the early game marines tend to split up a lot in order to gain as many resource towers as possible. This particular strategy is designed to force marines to work together or lose. If a marine wonders into 2 OCs and an unupgraded gorge, on their own then they either die or are forced to back off. If they die then they feed the gorge which allows the gorge to more quickly drop an upgrade chamber, which improves the OCs survival chances even more.
I'm not saying there isn't downsides to this strategy, I'm well aware that the gorge can't afford to wonder off and is basically stuck there until the marines either break through or there are enough DCs present for the gorge to risk leaving.
What I am saying is that the advantages provided by map control, such as having multiple 'safe' resource towers which most likely won't be attacked before the choke point is cleared, can be enough of a benefit to out weigh the loss of initial resource gathering speed.
This is where I actually get on topic, as this strategy is an example of a way aliens can help marines to learn to work together and thus hopefully cause a more challenging and therefore enjoyable game.
- Doing something weird with anyone else (trying to protect marine from alien comrades when their base is lost, healspray commander etc.)
- To win
- Improve in all sections (except comm, I'm just too scared)
- Being useful and getting credits from it
just like i play any other game.
If I am not having fun, then I wander off.
simple nuff <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Playing for stats makes the game boring.
First of all I just want to reiterate that I'm talking about the pub enviroment, so don't assume perfect marines.
Yes the OCs die quickly to an organised group of marines. What I'm saying is that in the early game marines tend to split up a lot in order to gain as many resource towers as possible. This particular strategy is designed to force marines to work together or lose. If a marine wonders into 2 OCs and an unupgraded gorge, on their own then they either die or are forced to back off. If they die then they feed the gorge which allows the gorge to more quickly drop an upgrade chamber, which improves the OCs survival chances even more.
I'm not saying there isn't downsides to this strategy, I'm well aware that the gorge can't afford to wonder off and is basically stuck there until the marines either break through or there are enough DCs present for the gorge to risk leaving.
What I am saying is that the advantages provided by map control, such as having multiple 'safe' resource towers which most likely won't be attacked before the choke point is cleared, can be enough of a benefit to out weigh the loss of initial resource gathering speed.
This is where I actually get on topic, as this strategy is an example of a way aliens can help marines to learn to work together and thus hopefully cause a more challenging and therefore enjoyable game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
2 marines > 1 oc. I know marines split up in the early game, but odds are there are groups of at least 2 marines wandering around, and if they find you you're screwed. That's an unnecessary risk in the early game, especially considering how important the very first few minutes are in NS. You can argue all of the benefits behind the strategy that you want, the fact is that there is no way dropping one oc can be MORE strategically beneficial to the aliens in the first few minutes than dropping an rt.
And I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that pub aliens don't choose their strats based on how well they teach marines. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Oc is fun if you put it in a good place and manage to hold of the rines for a long time (assist it by healing it, spitting yourself at the marines) OC isn't useless, it is only if you either don't spam or dont support it...
And I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that pub aliens don't choose their strats based on how well they teach marines. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I haven't tried to argue that 1 OC is better than 2 marines. I've tried to argue that 2 OCs and a gorge are. Besides of your going to pit 2 marines against the OCs shouldn't you throw in a skulk as well on the basis that aliens can react faster than marines? As to how it can be more beneficial, how beneficial is it to drop an rt and then lose it?
When this strategy works (and it has done on more than one occasion, though I don't claim it is the ideal strategy for someone who is good at skulking), it provides protection to the resource towers dropped by other team members.
Ultimately this strategy is a wall, if the marines can get over it, then it is useless, if they can't then they are going to lose (more or less). In the process it happens to teach marines to stick together and I personally enjoy a game more when both sides are working together.
Playing to win is not fun <b>in your opinion</b>. That doesn't make it wrong.
But mainly I play to win, I talk a lot on the mic but only to help teamwork and coordination, which is fun to me because it lets us win, plus you get a better score working together... which helps win
you see where this is going...?
And, I think that you learn from both winning and loosing. Besides, it's just a freaking game isn't it. What's all the winning about.