Voice Actors Want Video Games Pie
<div class="IPBDescription">Mmmm pai. Also, money.</div> This is from wired news. <a href='http://wired.com/news/digiwood/0,1412,67658,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_4' target='_blank'>Voice talent strike threatened</a> against the video game industry.
Basically, the voice talents behind video games want more compensation. The video games industry has apparently been in negotiations with the associations that represent voice talents but talks have broken down between them and now the Screen Actors Guild and the American Federation of Television and Radio Artists are trying to get their members to agree on a strike.
This is what the games industry representative has to say about the issue:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"People buy games for gameplay, not to hear voices," counters Finlayson. "And technology creates gameplay, not actors. People who play these games understand that, and in fact, some gamers turn the volume down because (they) find those voices distracting. In film or television, the actor's performance makes the experience. In video games, it does not."<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
While I do see his point, you just have to look at HL2 to see the importance of voice actors. They provide the characterisations for the game. They help provide a more immersive experience for gamers.
On the other hand, this makes game production that much more expensive when production costs are already somewhat astronomical.
Discuss.
Basically, the voice talents behind video games want more compensation. The video games industry has apparently been in negotiations with the associations that represent voice talents but talks have broken down between them and now the Screen Actors Guild and the American Federation of Television and Radio Artists are trying to get their members to agree on a strike.
This is what the games industry representative has to say about the issue:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"People buy games for gameplay, not to hear voices," counters Finlayson. "And technology creates gameplay, not actors. People who play these games understand that, and in fact, some gamers turn the volume down because (they) find those voices distracting. In film or television, the actor's performance makes the experience. In video games, it does not."<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
While I do see his point, you just have to look at HL2 to see the importance of voice actors. They provide the characterisations for the game. They help provide a more immersive experience for gamers.
On the other hand, this makes game production that much more expensive when production costs are already somewhat astronomical.
Discuss.
Comments
This guy is a moron. Is it not completely obvious that people turn the volume down because the acting is almost <i>always</i> painfully bad? Why yes it is.
Of course, the striking voice actors are also stupid if they think anybody will care. So we won't hear your pathetic excuse for acting in Hotnewblockbusterfps 4? Thank <i>god</i>. Maybe the people in charge of casting for these games will go up to the next rung of the ladder and start hiring people from high school drama classes.
I understand that they want more money and voice acting is important, but I think they should get paid an up front one time fee instead of "x" amount per game sold.
I understand that they want more money and voice acting is important, but I think they should get paid an up front one time fee instead of "x" amount per game sold. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
why? voice actors for movies and music get paid per the movie/cd, why not per the game too?
I understand that they want more money and voice acting is important, but I think they should get paid an up front one time fee instead of "x" amount per game sold. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
why? voice actors for movies and music get paid per the movie/cd, why not per the game too? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because it would be like a speciel effect getting paid? How often do you really listen to the speeches in KotOR (while I listen, it's far simpler and just as effective to read through it - especially with god-awful Kreia in the second one) or on the other end of the spectrum, FarCry? The guy is right: in movies actors sell the movie (except in action movies, which are sort of similar to the way Doom 3 sells because it looks good), but in video games the game sells itself.
I do recall when games like Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy 7, Mario 3, Sonic and even sports games had no spoken words (except BOOM!, thanks Madden '95...). I'd much rather play a lot of old games with no voice acting than many of the new ones that do have it. These people are idiots; it's like sound effects asking for more money. For the comparatively poor job most of them do, they should be glad they get paid at all (exceptions do arise, with much of the acting in KotOR, Halo, Half-Life and some other).
Play FSW, check out the "secret" army version; you'll get to hear a guy actually shouting out the commands (in a poorly made sound booth, as he echoes a bit); he sounds just as good as those 4 guys that did the voices for the actual game (aside from not being remastered as nicely).
You can basically look at every single game with a good plot that was released in the 20th Century for a counter example. Good voice acting can complement a good story, but it's really only a minor point.
Voice actors get paid highly for work in movies and television shows because movies and television shows are about people interacting. To display people interacting in video media, you have to have voice acting. It's one of the most important parts of a movie or TV show.
Video games are completely different. How many of you have played and enjoyed an awful game with good voice acting? How many of you have played and enjoyed an excellent game with awful voice acting? Voice actors should be happy that they have jobs at all. What they do is most certainly not a necessity. In fact, if I had to rank all the attributes that make a good game, voice acting would be at the bottom of the list. Plot, gameplay, graphics, sound effects, music, and controls are all much more important.
Frankly, I don't know what the strike is supposed to accomplish. If they strike, all but the most high budget games will just stop using voice actors. Do you think Flayra puts voice acting anywhere near the top of his priorities list? NS would be 99% as good as it is now, if it didn't have any voice work.
Interestingly, this issue reminded me of Will Wright's Spore presentation. He said that a memorable story arises out of the actions that the player creates, not artificially created by a developer. When I play Grand Theft Auto without violating any traffic laws, or lock tourists inside a Roller Coaster Tycoon game without any access to food, drink, or bathrooms, I'm creating my own story. It's a much more satisfying experience at times, especially the second time that I'm playing through a game (during which you tend to ignore the voice acting).
In short, voice actors are infinitely replaceable except in games where the focus is a licensed character where you really need the actor that played the character in whatever movie/show.
If they can train entire groups of people in India to sound like they're from Alabama, then it can't be *that* hard to train people to voice act passibly.
"There's something you don't see every day - thank God." > Everything vocal in FarCry/AvP2/Doom 3/RTW (especially <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ).
Outsourcing! Bahahahaaha. <i>Hell</i> yes.
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Seriously though I can argue for and against this.
A.) No, those god damned voice actors cannot make my video games cost any more than they already do. I'm already tearing up a paycheck everytime I pay $50 for a new game. I don't care how important they think they are, I'm not paying more just because they want a higher cut.
B.) Games like the Max Payne series, both Legacy of Kane series (Blood Omen & Soul Reaver series) and, the Thief series all benefitted HEAVILY off of great voice acting. The guy who did the voice of Raziel for instance, is godlike. Voices like those, I can appreciate.
In the end though, I don't want prices raised, and whatever side protects me wallet from taking a hit is the side that I'm on.
However, I have a sneaking suspicion that everybody who was in MGS got a decent salary. You know, because they <i>did a good job</i>.
If it weren't for voice actors we'd never have Duke Nukem.
--Scythe--
Best voice acting in any game ever. Jack (voiced by non other than John Di Maggio) rocked and had a voice that perfectly suited his attitude making the character even more memorable. Then theres LaCroix who managed to be suitable snitchy and have a voice that went well with his character.
And then theres VV. And if you've played Bloodlines you'll probably know what I mean.
Sexiest. Voice. Ever.
High-profile voice actors can make, in one or two sittings in a game's development, more than the average annual salary of the developers who have spent years working on the project.
It's safe to say close to 90% of developers do <i>not</i> receive any sort of residuals per copy of their game sold.
Of the developers who <i>do</i> get residuals, you're lucky to get $.50-$1 per copy to split amongst your team/company.
As far as the publisher offer on the table to raise voice actor salaries, that's fine. The people that will affect are the ones that do go from one voice gig to another to support themselves.
Residuals? **** off. Give 100% of the developers the share they deserve, then we'll talk. Two to three sessions in the last few months of development != years and years of 40-80 hour work weeks under crazy deadlines and scheduling.
Best voice acting in any game ever. Jack (voiced by non other than John Di Maggio) rocked and had a voice that perfectly suited his attitude making the character even more memorable. Then theres LaCroix who managed to be suitable snitchy and have a voice that went well with his character.
And then theres VV. And if you've played Bloodlines you'll probably know what I mean.
Sexiest. Voice. Ever. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Man, that was one bug-infested game. I couldn't reconcile the two sisters because the dialogue keep looping over and over and over, and I have a persuasion of 7 at the time.
Grrrr... ended up offing Therese.
I love FFX, FFVIII coulda done with voices imo.
"There's something you don't see every day - thank God." > Everything vocal in FarCry/AvP2/Doom 3/RTW (especially <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
QFT
Metal Gear Solid 1-3
KOTOR I&II
Splinter Cell 1-3
Half-Life 1&2
Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines
Mafia
Grand Theft Auto 3, Vice City, and San Andreas
Tron 2.0
Warcraft 2&3 and TFT
Starcraft
Halo
Just a little food for thought. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The SAG is attempting to say that voice talent should be held to (acting) industry standards, while the standard for games is already in place. While I certainly wouldn't have minded getting a tenth (or hundredth) of a penny per MOHPA copy sold, I'm not holding my breath that the (games) industry will morph into a royalty based system.
The Screenwriter's Guild of America, incidentally, is also beginning to quiety send out feelers about unionizing game story development. At the GDC this year a SGA member stood during the Q&A following a session I was in to advertise a new group for that purpose.
Go on then. I want my voices in a week.
Metal Gear Solid 1-3
KOTOR I&II
Splinter Cell 1-3
Half-Life 1&2
Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines
Mafia
Grand Theft Auto 3, Vice City, and San Andreas
Tron 2.0
Warcraft 2&3 and TFT
Starcraft
Halo
Just a little food for thought. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Adding to the list:
Grim Fandango - You simply can't play this without the voice acting...
Full Throttle
Planescape: Torment - Unfortunately not a big role for a 4 CD game... but it was still well done
<a href='http://www3.telus.net/confuzor/master.mp3' target='_blank'>Fallout</a> - I've never going to get tired hearing that one...
Metal Gear Solid 1-3
KOTOR I&II
Splinter Cell 1-3
Half-Life 1&2
Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines
Mafia
Grand Theft Auto 3, Vice City, and San Andreas
Tron 2.0
Warcraft 2&3 and TFT
Starcraft
Halo
Just a little food for thought. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Adding to the list:
Grim Fandango - You simply can't play this without the voice acting...
Full Throttle
Planescape: Torment - Unfortunately not a big role for a 4 CD game... but it was still well done
<a href='http://www3.telus.net/confuzor/master.mp3' target='_blank'>Fallout</a> - I've never going to get tired hearing that one... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And Thief/Thief2! I just love the voices in that game "Come back here you taffer!" I'm excluding Thief3 because of the horrible pagan voice acting and I guess also just generally because Thief1&2 are better. Much better.
Worst voice acting(/scripting) I think should go to Unreal2, - but I would love to hear if anyone knows of any worse <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Holy friggin crap are those real? If they are... damn... just damn.
I just knew you'd be ****. Felt it in my bones I did. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Good. I'm sure all the developers who end up hearing this have let some of their overworked & deadline induced rage spill forth.
God, it's just a voice.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"Nine of the top 10 selling games in 2004 were produced with union contracts, using union voice talent -- and because of that, the quality of those games becomes exponentially higher," said Seth Oster1, a representative of SAG and AFTRA.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Higher? Why not. Exponentially higher? Definitely not. I'm sure I could spend no more than a day, or even a week, to find equally performing "voice talent."