Where Are You Dev Team?

Chaos_Xero · May 2005

<div class="IPBDescription">I keep telling myself not to...</div> From Flayra:
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>First of all, NS v3.1 is progressing nicely. This release will contain some balance improvements, some usability tweaks and our long-awaited Big Unannounced System. We are on the verge of announcing the details of this "B.U.S." and expect to post details on naturalselection.com within shortly. We're really excited about this release and hope you guys will be too.
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Shortly would mean... well, not more than 1-2 weeks I would assume. This email was sent <b>April 22, 2005</b> Isnt a month a little long when you promise something like that? I've lost all interest in NS because the community seems to be so stagnant. I'm not quitting, heaven knows we dont need another "I'm leaving NS for good" post, but i'm disappointed that the game I have played for so long seems to be at a complete standstill.

Maybe im wrong. Maybe they are already working on a source port, or something really awesome. If this is the truth, then <i>tell us</i>.

Im not angry, im just frustrated at the lack of news, and information.

MrMoFo · May 2005

Word

GiGaBiTe · May 2005

we all have something called "lives"

i wouldnt be suprised if it takes a year to get ns 3.1, they arent making any money making ns, and have to earn bread for themselves and their family. what im basically saying is that they cant go down in their basement for days at a time only eating cheesypoofs and drinking surge while continuously work on ns.

from what i read on the dev guidelines somewhere, you have to dedicate 2 hours per day on ns, and i doubt that half of them get that much time to work on it, due to work and other more important things in life.

i could care less if it takes years to get ns 3.1 or ns:source out the door, its all the same to me.

Talesin · May 2005

Development is continuing, but a good bit of it is never publically released; a number of the testing builds show that more work is needed, or bring up new bugs. After all, Natural Selection is an extremely ambitious mod, and forces the Half-Life engine to do things it was never meant to handle.

Flayra wants to present the best game possible. And that requires that a large amount of time be invested. As noted by Gigabyte, it is not backed by corporate funding, so the Devs have to put their own hours into the refinement and progression.
Constellation donations are an easement... they do not completely cover rent and food for Flayra, much less the entirety of his bills. But they do allow him to spend what resources he does have afterward on NS-related costs; the forums and website, as well as hardware upgrades, software purchases, professional creation of content (such as foley work), and legal costs (such as to prevent being Foxed).

If UWE turns out to be a viable business (with NS2), realistic schedules may be set. But until that time, things are handled when the time to take care of them is available. And so the releases stay at 'when it's done'.

After all, wouldn't you rather have the next revision be up to the usual NS standards, rather than a hashed-together patch that disappoints?

tapehands · May 2005

you'd think that after three major releases, and a handful of minor releases, they'd know the drill by now. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

it's all about patience for this mod...and it never fails to pay off.

typical_skeleton · May 2005

Well, many developers suffer from this "problem".

People just enjoy tidbits here and there, that's why the idea of a "plan" file came up. The only problem with those is they may suggest that things will be included when they won't.

The community definitely loves a news update every now and then, we really have no other means of getting information, at all.

Fangs · May 2005

After playing yet anouther build today I can assure you a great deal of work is going into this version.

I am not allowed to discuss details, but I can say that were not talking about a few minor tweeks here, There is going to be a great deal of exciteing changes.

When you finaly get to see the end result, belive me it will be worth the waiting.

Innocuous · May 2005

Zunni delivers dev. updates over nsradio frequently.

GiGaBiTe · May 2005

quality is always greater than quickly rushing new releases out the door. thats why i dont care about how long it takes, because the longer they work on the mod, the more it can be tested and fixed if bugs are found <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

Jabba_The_Hunt · May 2005

I have no problem with the time it takes to develop NS, obviously its going to take a long time to develop a mod.

What I, and I think most of the community, would appreciate is more information about what is going on, or atleast we dont want information like the BUS, where its supposed to be an amazing thing but none of us have any idea what it is? I mean its been close to a year since that was announced.

Now I know the BUS was supposed to be completed a lot earlier, and its understandable, but I would prefer one of either two strategies. Either give us small updates about what is going on, like valve has started doing with their weekly steam updates, or tell us nothing at all.

Cheese · May 2005

personally i dont really care about the bus...they dont want to tell us because its a "great new idea, never before etc etc"

fine for me. If that is true (and im pretty sure it is) then i dont need to know for the greater good.

But:

Plz...about those little upgrades that arent "teh Buz"...these new things that are not "great new idea, never before etc etc"...give us a little bit of information so we can jump around and be happy <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' />

Swiftspear · May 2005

For the record, the last time I remember having this discussion (sometime in april) playtesters hadn't even gotten thier hands on a 3.1 build yet. From what I've been hearing we aren't at a release yet, but getting alot closer.

Maian · May 2005

For future releases, the dev team should consider releasing small balance patches while they work on a new version.

I understand that this is free and the devs are either overworked or have limited time (or both), but at the cost of the community? That's too much.

At least a bit of effort needs to be spent on small balance patches - like tweaking a variable here or there. It's a BIG mistake to think "well, we're already have some major balance changes, so interim balance patches aren't worth it."

My 2 cents.

Corporal_Fortier · May 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Maian @ May 30 2005, 05:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>For future releases, the dev team should consider releasing small balance patches while they work on a new version.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Hmmm I thought that was already being done?

Taken from main page's news archive :
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
[ April 26th, 2005 ]

We're pleased to release NS v3.0.3! We increased marine base armor from 25 to 30 points (this means that the Arms Lab upgrades now offer 50, 70, and 90 armor, respectively), and siege cannon damage from 350 to 380 points per salvo.
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
[ April 3rd, 2005 ]

We present you with NS 3.0.2, a server-side update to 3.0. We have made the following balance changes:

- Reduced observatory cost from 20 to 15.
- Increased observatory starting energy to 40.
- Reduced Armslab cost from 25 to 20.
- Reduced Phase Gate transportation throttle rate from 0.8 to 0.5 seconds per player.
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
[ March 10th, 2005 ]

In response to a number of minor issues with the recent release, we present you with Natural Selection 3.01, a server-only update to 3.0. It fixes the choke issues experienced by the operators of larger servers. On our test servers, we saw performance improvements of more than 20%.
Additionally, we removed an exploit of the updated mapvote system, and fixed a bug that hindered the commander from dropping structures on a specific occasion.
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

There has been less than a month between every update, which I condiser very good since they are both working on NS 3.1 and exploring the Source engine! If these aren't small balance patches, then what are they? Are you talking about client-side updates? I'm for one who prefers server-side updates, it's waaaaay less problems for all the players that'd need to update every 3 weeks!

Zunni · May 2005

I'm right here... And have been doing weekly shows on NSRadio where I'm releasing new information about Source/3.1 and everything else NS....

I've posted this elsewhere but for the last 3 shows check out these links:

<a href='http://fc.gedsb.net/~windlema/devcorner1.mp3' target='_blank'>http://fc.gedsb.net/~windlema/devcorner1.mp3</a> (contains info about 3.1 PT build, info about a 3.0.4 patch, information about a 3.2 patch and general 3.1 goodness)
<a href='http://fc.gedsb.net/~windlema/devcorner2.mp3' target='_blank'>http://fc.gedsb.net/~windlema/devcorner2.mp3</a> (contains newer info about PT build and some source info)
<a href='http://fc.gedsb.net/~windlema/devcorner3.mp3' target='_blank'>http://fc.gedsb.net/~windlema/devcorner3.mp3</a> (contains details about 'My games' and 3.1 changelog items)

Some people have said they would like a transcript and tbh, I don't have the time, so if someone else wants to transcribe them, go ahead....

I've been thinking about how to handle these as announcements as I get enough flack about posting interviews with myself <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' />

Enjoy...

Zunni · May 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>For future releases, the dev team should consider releasing small balance patches while they work on a new version.

I understand that this is free and the devs are either overworked or have limited time (or both), but at the cost of the community? That's too much.

At least a bit of effort needs to be spent on small balance patches - like tweaking a variable here or there. It's a BIG mistake to think "well, we're already have some major balance changes, so interim balance patches aren't worth it."</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

So perhaps release a 3.0.X patch?? like a 3.0.1, 3.0.2 or 3.0.3 patch??

Oh wait, we are already doing this <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' />

Zunni · May 2005

And for those who don't want to listen, here are some of the high-lights...

<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=93978&st=0&#entry1490712' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....0&#entry1490712</a>

Bry · May 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni @ May 30 2005, 02:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> And for those who don't want to listen, here are some of the high-lights...

<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=93978&st=0&#entry1490712' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....0&#entry1490712</a>  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
looks good n1 <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' />

Thansal · May 2005

I was sitting here thinking.

why has no one posted up zunni's recordings of his shows....

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

ikir · May 2005

Transcript please!

EDIT: ok i've read it .-) Thanks

BeowulfGrendel · May 2005

Anyone able to download the second show? I'm just getting a HTML error page here...

[edit]
working fine now

Chaos_Xero · May 2005

Thank you for all of your input. Especially Zunni for putting my mind at ease. One thing though, can we hear about the BUS any time soon?

Zunni · May 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Thank you for all of your input. Especially Zunni for putting my mind at ease. One thing though, can we hear about the BUS any time soon?</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

If you listen to the second/third shows I make specific mention about when you can expect to hear more about Nexus (BUS)..

When I get the "highlights" done for that show, I'll post them as well.

Bry · May 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni @ May 30 2005, 04:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Thank you for all of your input. Especially Zunni for putting my mind at ease. One thing though, can we hear about the BUS any time soon?</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

If you listen to the second/third shows I make specific mention about when you can expect to hear more about Nexus (BUS)..

When I get the "highlights" done for that show, I'll post them as well.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
cool <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' />

eliotmat · May 2005

I've sent out a squad to kidnap all NS team members. They will be shipped to my basement.
Upon their arrival Kathy Lee Gifford will be called in to get the dev team motivated to release ns3.1 and ns:s.

Expect an update soon, my friends.

I hate it when I have to do things this way.

Cheese · May 2005

Zunni we love you...really...

Shadow_Spork · May 2005

I' ve listened to your show Zunni. Great news on keeping us informed. I just wished that I had the time earlier to check it out. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' />

Kenichi · May 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chaos Xero @ May 30 2005, 11:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Thank you for all of your input. Especially Zunni for putting my mind at ease. One thing though, can we hear about the BUS any time soon?  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
hah I don't even know what nexus is yet <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

TheAdj · May 2005

Every damn pt patch says "added x level of nexus", but I never see it. I must be blind <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' />

Zaggy · May 2005

At NS, being patient and wait for the good stuff is to be highly advised.

It's free, it beats most of the games I know of, it rocks.

Maian · May 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni @ May 30 2005, 10:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>For future releases, the dev team should consider releasing small balance patches while they work on a new version.

I understand that this is free and the devs are either overworked or have limited time (or both), but at the cost of the community? That's too much.

At least a bit of effort needs to be spent on small balance patches - like tweaking a variable here or there. It's a BIG mistake to think "well, we're already have some major balance changes, so interim balance patches aren't worth it."</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

So perhaps release a 3.0.X patch?? like a 3.0.1, 3.0.2 or 3.0.3 patch??

Oh wait, we are already doing this <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' />  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Dunno what I was thinking <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' />

Where Are You Dev Team?

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