Ns- Is It Good Still?
BulletHead
Join Date: 2004-07-22 Member: 30049Members
Join Date: 2004-07-22 Member: 30049Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Lets be UNBIASED here...</div> Allright. I'll cut to the chase.
Co has done a lot of damage to NS. Reason being is that it doesn't help teach people NS at all. I've seen a co server get voted to NS, and I hear things like:
"How do I buy weapons" (one that just spawned at game start)
"Where'd my shotgun go????111" (someone that just died)
"What are... resurcrse?!?!" (at map start)
"Why do we have three hives?" (at game start)
"What's this thing?" (someone who just +used the com chair)
"OMG WTH HAX!" (someone looking at an offense chamber as it kills them)
"Why did I loose my upgrades?" (someone that just respawned as an alien)
"WHY DID I GET WEAPONS 1? I WANTED ARMOR1!!!" (to the weapons 1 upgrade finishing at the arms lab)
"What's this thing?" (someone looking at an IP)
"Oh my GOD why didn't it PING you?" (someone who just died to a cloaked skulk)
Lets face it... NS is a LOT more complex than CO. It's just the nature of the game. CO and NS need to be SEPARATED. There is no real way to balance the two with the same values... the "attempts" to balance CO have resulted in NS going downhill even more. As a result, I've seen a near 40% INCREASE in EMPTY SERVERS, a 2% decrease in the number of servers (compared to last summer) and a 62% increase of nubs, with a 30% decrease in vets.
NS is, to be blunt, dying. It needs help. CO is a BIG hit... but it's not that good is it? And you (the devs) know it...
So, what I want is an UNBIASED, NO-FLAMES discussion about what COULD be done. I think the easiest would be this:
Return NS mode to pre-2.0 variable with fixed hitboxes. Re-balance from there. We already have the coding, we now know how to change the code to balance what might need balanced. So why not do it? If only for the players...
Separate CO from NS- they're too different for CO to be used to ease players into NS. Really, they are.
I need to go now, need to help take down the tent (we're preparing for our camping trip)
Co has done a lot of damage to NS. Reason being is that it doesn't help teach people NS at all. I've seen a co server get voted to NS, and I hear things like:
"How do I buy weapons" (one that just spawned at game start)
"Where'd my shotgun go????111" (someone that just died)
"What are... resurcrse?!?!" (at map start)
"Why do we have three hives?" (at game start)
"What's this thing?" (someone who just +used the com chair)
"OMG WTH HAX!" (someone looking at an offense chamber as it kills them)
"Why did I loose my upgrades?" (someone that just respawned as an alien)
"WHY DID I GET WEAPONS 1? I WANTED ARMOR1!!!" (to the weapons 1 upgrade finishing at the arms lab)
"What's this thing?" (someone looking at an IP)
"Oh my GOD why didn't it PING you?" (someone who just died to a cloaked skulk)
Lets face it... NS is a LOT more complex than CO. It's just the nature of the game. CO and NS need to be SEPARATED. There is no real way to balance the two with the same values... the "attempts" to balance CO have resulted in NS going downhill even more. As a result, I've seen a near 40% INCREASE in EMPTY SERVERS, a 2% decrease in the number of servers (compared to last summer) and a 62% increase of nubs, with a 30% decrease in vets.
NS is, to be blunt, dying. It needs help. CO is a BIG hit... but it's not that good is it? And you (the devs) know it...
So, what I want is an UNBIASED, NO-FLAMES discussion about what COULD be done. I think the easiest would be this:
Return NS mode to pre-2.0 variable with fixed hitboxes. Re-balance from there. We already have the coding, we now know how to change the code to balance what might need balanced. So why not do it? If only for the players...
Separate CO from NS- they're too different for CO to be used to ease players into NS. Really, they are.
I need to go now, need to help take down the tent (we're preparing for our camping trip)
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
At the moment I'm playing on a 3.0.5 server (it has new hitboxes). If it works out, I'll love NS even more, and carry on playing it (and hopefully config will start up again).
Although I'm still waiting for 3.1- NS really does need some more balance and content.
As for combat, the only thing that bugs me is joining a full combat server, and when it changes to classic, >50% of people leave. But for the most part I stay away from combat entirely. If I want to play a game where frags are the order of the day; let's face it- we make fun of it, but <i>Counter-Strike</i> is the mod of choice.
And out of those things i've only seen the first one said a few times and only seen a few people jump in cc.....only to be ejected straight away.
If somehow your stats are real. 62% more new players....against 30% less players = an increase of 32%. People who have been playing games a long time move on. It all gets a bit boring and all the same after a while no matter what game you are playing. Honestly NS has kept me intersted though.
CO gives new players to get a feel for the different weapons, different upgrades and different life forms before they join an NS game. What would you rather do. Give a noob who has never played ns or co a hmg and ha or a noob to ns who knows how to use a hmg and ha from CO?
And hey guess what. We were all noobs at one point and even if you get rid of co there will still be noobs and they will still have to learn how to play the game.
One thing I will say about CO is that it has attracted some of the stereotypical CS players. And they do tend to ruin the game.
And if all of those things are happenning on a server you play on. Either teach them or find a better server.
At the moment I'm playing on a 3.0.5 server (it has new hitboxes). If it works out, I'll love NS even more, and carry on playing it (and hopefully config will start up again). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eh...what? Are you a ninja playtester or something?
Asking it to be cut away from NS...
Co is a growth on NS's neck that is slowly sucking away it's life force... remove it and let it begin it's own lifecycle.
And those stats are rough figures- not really estimates, mainly the result of almost 3 weeks of watching the average number of STEAM servers, comparing how many are empty to how many are active, removing the bot servers... yeah... I've spent time doing this. Don't blow em off as pure estimates
And yes, my server is affected... but this is seen throughout... I've played in roughly 150+ servers... I've seen the same effects in about 70% of them.
Basically though, I needed combat mode, because otherwise I would be worse than the people who said those quotes. The problem is, too many people don't read the manual, which teaches you basic gameplay, and solves any of those problems that were in the quotes. Also, too many people just do something, and then get shouted at when it is a crap tactic, but rather than learning from the mistake, just ignore everyone and carry on doing what they are doing. I watch other people, and learn from them, and that is why I have only been shouted at once - that was the first time I played, and I learned from my mistake.
With all the counter-strike players coming over to this, expect to see many hackers, and a warcraft mod very soon.
Basically though, I needed combat mode, because otherwise I would be worse than the people who said those quotes. The problem is, too many people don't read the manual, which teaches you basic gameplay, and solves any of those problems that were in the quotes. Also, too many people just do something, and then get shouted at when it is a crap tactic, but rather than learning from the mistake, just ignore everyone and carry on doing what they are doing. I watch other people, and learn from them, and that is why I have only been shouted at once - that was the first time I played, and I learned from my mistake.
With all the counter-strike players coming over to this, expect to see many hackers, and a warcraft mod very soon. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
He proves my case
A Newb is okay.. they're new, they ask, they listen
About 25% of new players are newbs
A noob is a botched brain trying to comprehend a game beyond it's realms. They are ignorant, sometimes just don't talk at all, and generaly dont' improve.
About 60% of new players are newbs
A reg is a good player, been playing not neccessarily a long time but is good at the game. They also visit the same few servers constantly.
About 10% of new players are regs.
so, 25+60+10 = oh em gee only 95%. WHere's the last 5%?
Well, that's the new players that come, get disgusted with the noobs and arrogent vets that have beebn playing so long they know the game back to front and treat newbs as such, and LEAVE.
About 5% of new players just LEAVE.
not very good stats are they.
A big problem is their reception... but yes, CS players will bring over MANY hackers / exploiters
I've seen, fought, and beaten people such as |\/|y G 0 t (name not spelled out due to auto searches) and other "hax" organizations. Yes, there are groups DEDICATED to ruining games for others...
I won't make up some stats but I noticed that it is getting harder for me to find a server running ns_ maps within reasonable ping range. I tend to avoid servers with crazy plugins and ridiculously high maxplayers count. So that doesn't leave much to choose from.
NS isn't dying at all. A brief glance at the server list, even just the NS servers, clearly disproves that claim. Just because it may not be in the "golden days" anymore doesn't mean the game is about to die. People who like NS play NS, and people who like CO play CO; separating the modes or whatever else isn't going to change that. If not for CO, the people who only play on combat servers probably would simply leave instead. Let them do what they enjoy, it isn't hurting NS any.
Yes, more "servers" are coming up... but more EMPTY servers are appearing... and once active servers are now dying.
I'm seriously NOT making these up! They are with a 5% degree of error, but that's just cause of rounding
And yes, separating the modes WOULD make a change
The Devs are trying to keep the numbers the same for both of them... so a change to CO affects NS as well!
you take ROUGH numbers down of the average influx and outflux of players
over a period of 3 weeks there IS a large variable (hence the 5% +/- I stated earlier)
There, you have a ROUGH set of stats that is by no means made up.
Also, I don't know why anyone would think that classic is falling off as a popular gameplay type. I can always find plenty of active, decent servers playing ns_ maps, even in the midday.
Yeah, sure, we believe you.
From my location in southern Ohio I can find one NS server with a decent ping, but that particular server, like so many these days, has a daily aimbotter problem. And we all know that CO is largely responsible for bringing those scum into this mod.
So f***ing true.
That's definitely not going to happen, though.
So, if you want people who play CO to be smarter in NS, the solution is to integrate the single-player NS training mission that never seems to arrive...
Co has done a lot of damage to NS. Reason being is that it doesn't help teach people NS at all. I've seen a co server get voted to NS, and I hear things like:
"How do I buy weapons" (one that just spawned at game start)
"Where'd my shotgun go????111" (someone that just died)
"What are... resurcrse?!?!" (at map start)
"Why do we have three hives?" (at game start)
"What's this thing?" (someone who just +used the com chair)
"OMG WTH HAX!" (someone looking at an offense chamber as it kills them)
"Why did I loose my upgrades?" (someone that just respawned as an alien)
"WHY DID I GET WEAPONS 1? I WANTED ARMOR1!!!" (to the weapons 1 upgrade finishing at the arms lab)
"What's this thing?" (someone looking at an IP)
"Oh my GOD why didn't it PING you?" (someone who just died to a cloaked skulk)
Lets face it... NS is a LOT more complex than CO. It's just the nature of the game. CO and NS need to be SEPARATED. There is no real way to balance the two with the same values... the "attempts" to balance CO have resulted in NS going downhill even more. As a result, I've seen a near 40% INCREASE in EMPTY SERVERS, a 2% decrease in the number of servers (compared to last summer) and a 62% increase of nubs, with a 30% decrease in vets.
NS is, to be blunt, dying. It needs help. CO is a BIG hit... but it's not that good is it? And you (the devs) know it...
So, what I want is an UNBIASED, NO-FLAMES discussion about what COULD be done. I think the easiest would be this:
Return NS mode to pre-2.0 variable with fixed hitboxes. Re-balance from there. We already have the coding, we now know how to change the code to balance what might need balanced. So why not do it? If only for the players...
Separate CO from NS- they're too different for CO to be used to ease players into NS. Really, they are.
I need to go now, need to help take down the tent (we're preparing for our camping trip) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Co hasnt done damage to NS, its not a malignent growth, and NS isnt dying (how many times have we all heard that one?)
You make a good point, that NS and CO should be seperated and have different values. I have always believed that, I dont think it makes any sense at all to keep all the variables constant between the both of the games.
I also think that you are right on with the returning NS to a 1.xx state with the obvious glaring bug fixes, it hitboxes.
CO and NS would both benefit greatly me thinks if they became seperate. Some changes and variables that work good for NS dont work good for CO, and vice versa
YES PLEASE! D:
Let's take them one at a time.<ul><li>Our servercount fluctuates between 395 and 435. It has done so quite contently since the advent of the Steampowered stats.</li><li>There are currently 160 inhabited servers. My usual rule-of-thumb number is 15 higher, but I'd argue that's still within the mark.</li><li>Of those 160 servers, 90 play Classic. Feel free to remove all siege maps and the one playtest server I just disconnected from; you'd still reach the rough parity observed since five weeks after 3.0 Beta1.</li><li>I have no idea how you intend to measure a player's 'newness' in a system as chaotic as the internet, and I'd point out that three weeks are way too short a time of observation, but from our general download numbers, I should tell you that the biggest part of NS' audience has always been 'throughput'. It comes with being a free game: People will pick it up, play a few times, and move on. Nothing new about that.</li></ul>Sure, there are idiots on those servers. What you need to understand is that they aren't there because of Combat - they're there because we don't require an IQ test and a written exam before allowing the game to be installed. We had complaints about ignorant newbies since December 2002.
If you don't want to play Combat, connect to a server that doesn't run Combat. If you don't like the plugins on some of those servers, I'd suggest you look into opening your own.
There have been dozens of these threads before. Some of the more productive are still open in case someone can add a new thought to the subject. Therefore, I'll <span style='color:red'>***lock***</span> this one.