Game Unbalanced? Marines Too Weak? Read.
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Join Date: 1970-01-01 Member:
Join Date: 1970-01-01 Member:
From what i have seen on these forums lately, the hot topic is about balance. Everyone says that something needs to be improved and another thing needs to be nerfed. I just want to say my thoughts on it.
First, about the marines. Yes, we have to start with them. The problem is, <b>everyone</b> starts with them. The manual says it: If you are new to NS, you should try the marines first. The game itself says it in the readyroom after a new map is loaded. Well the problem is, its a half life engine, with so many popular deathmatch... ops, sorry, "team-based" mods like CS or DoD, and I'm not surprised anymore when half the marine team go exploring all alone, thinking theyll kill the aliens by themselves, just like they did in other mods, just to find themselves killed by skulks. The fact is, the marines team is unbalanced because its extremaly tactical and teamwork, and most people new to NS are either lost and dont know how to follow orders, build things, or lack the ability to work in a team. Actually, the marines are way much more powerful than the aliens, they can control a hive spot in the first 5 minutes, their base can only be destroyed with fades or onoses, if well protected that is, and their later upgrades like HA and HMG allows the marines to withstand an onos attack, even kill it.
Most players say that marines are too weak. They aren't.
Most alien players says siege turrets are too overpowered. Face it, they arent. The first one consumes a total of 65 resources to be build, and one alone takes a loong time to kill your precious lame walls. If you take that long to go and destroy it, you deserved to lose that lame walls. Besides, siege turrets are completely defenseless. if a couple more turrets are placed nearby (still easy to destroy the factory) it takes a total of 103 resources to build everything. Thats a LOT of resources. Dont come and tell me theyre overpowered.
They also say HA marines are too overpowered. They arent. Any gorge can put 8 defensive chambers just outside the marine base that heal you 80 points per second. Now ask if any alien player thinks thats unbalanced. 90% will say no.
But, I believe the medpaks rain are more of an exploit than an feature. I believe there should be some kind of "armory" that gives health, even if its only 5 points per use, raise the cost of the medpaks to 10 and raise their healing power to 100% health.
And for a final statement, i'm not a marine player. I used to be, but not anymore. Now i only play aliens. Why? Most of the aliens players do more teamwork than the marine players. I just hate seeing my teammates go play deathmatch style.
First, about the marines. Yes, we have to start with them. The problem is, <b>everyone</b> starts with them. The manual says it: If you are new to NS, you should try the marines first. The game itself says it in the readyroom after a new map is loaded. Well the problem is, its a half life engine, with so many popular deathmatch... ops, sorry, "team-based" mods like CS or DoD, and I'm not surprised anymore when half the marine team go exploring all alone, thinking theyll kill the aliens by themselves, just like they did in other mods, just to find themselves killed by skulks. The fact is, the marines team is unbalanced because its extremaly tactical and teamwork, and most people new to NS are either lost and dont know how to follow orders, build things, or lack the ability to work in a team. Actually, the marines are way much more powerful than the aliens, they can control a hive spot in the first 5 minutes, their base can only be destroyed with fades or onoses, if well protected that is, and their later upgrades like HA and HMG allows the marines to withstand an onos attack, even kill it.
Most players say that marines are too weak. They aren't.
Most alien players says siege turrets are too overpowered. Face it, they arent. The first one consumes a total of 65 resources to be build, and one alone takes a loong time to kill your precious lame walls. If you take that long to go and destroy it, you deserved to lose that lame walls. Besides, siege turrets are completely defenseless. if a couple more turrets are placed nearby (still easy to destroy the factory) it takes a total of 103 resources to build everything. Thats a LOT of resources. Dont come and tell me theyre overpowered.
They also say HA marines are too overpowered. They arent. Any gorge can put 8 defensive chambers just outside the marine base that heal you 80 points per second. Now ask if any alien player thinks thats unbalanced. 90% will say no.
But, I believe the medpaks rain are more of an exploit than an feature. I believe there should be some kind of "armory" that gives health, even if its only 5 points per use, raise the cost of the medpaks to 10 and raise their healing power to 100% health.
And for a final statement, i'm not a marine player. I used to be, but not anymore. Now i only play aliens. Why? Most of the aliens players do more teamwork than the marine players. I just hate seeing my teammates go play deathmatch style.
Comments
They also say HA marines are too overpowered. They arent. Any gorge can put 8 defensive chambers just outside the marine base that heal you 80 points per second. Now ask if any alien player thinks thats unbalanced. 90% will say no.[\QUOTE]
Eh .. each def chamber has a reload time of about 5 seconds. So it's about 17 pts per sec, not 80.
However, with lvl 3 carapace, about half damage is absorbed. Meaning 8 def chambers will on the average negate about 35 hits per sec from the marines, or about two HMG bullets per second.
A siege turret has a listed damage of 700, which means 910 damage fully upgraded. Due to a bug, it actually deals anything in between 0 and 350 damage. If it did the full 910 damage, a siege turret would kill a defensive chamber in ONE hit and an offensive chamber in TWO hits. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
Btw i have a question - is it level 1 upgrade if you only have 1 hive or does it depend on the number of defense towers the aliens have, up to a max of 3? Oh and I always have a (2) next to my upgrade options. What does that mean? thanks.
The game is unbalanced in that a dumb alien team > a dumb marine team or even a skilled alien team > a skilled marine team. Not to say the marines cannot win but it takes luck to achieve a marine win. If you disagree then start a thread in marine tactics with your greatest chance of success tactic.
The seige bug getting fixed will correct the imbalance tho.
<!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
However, with lvl 3 carapace, about half damage is absorbed. Meaning 8 def chambers will on the average negate about 35 hits per sec from the marines, or about two HMG bullets per second.
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Well... thats not what i have been experiencing when playing as aliens. I really believes it heals faster. I was able to fully heal myself as an onos (for a total of 400 life and 150 armor, i had carapace) in 10-15 seconds. Now imagine 2 more other onos healing with me. Its a total of 1200 life points and 450 armor in 10-15 seconds. Its a huge healing power, thats why the siege cannon is supposed to have a huge destructive power.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A siege turret has a listed damage of 700, which means 910 damage fully upgraded. Due to a bug, it actually deals anything in between 0 and 350 damage. If it did the full 910 damage, a siege turret would kill a defensive chamber in ONE hit and an offensive chamber in TWO hits.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, don't you think its balanced the way it is now? (Even though its bugged)
Most alien players says siege turrets are too overpowered. Face it, they arent. The first one consumes a total of 65 resources to be build, and one alone takes a loong time to kill your precious lame walls. If you take that long to go and destroy it, you deserved to lose that lame walls. Besides, siege turrets are completely defenseless. if a couple more turrets are placed nearby (still easy to destroy the factory) it takes a total of 103 resources to build everything. Thats a LOT of resources. Dont come and tell me theyre overpowered.
They also say HA marines are too overpowered. They arent. Any gorge can put 8 defensive chambers just outside the marine base that heal you 80 points per second. Now ask if any alien player thinks thats unbalanced. 90% will say no.
But, I believe the medpaks rain are more of an exploit than an feature. I believe there should be some kind of "armory" that gives health, even if its only 5 points per use, raise the cost of the medpaks to 10 and raise their healing power to 100% health.
And for a final statement, i'm not a marine player. I used to be, but not anymore. Now i only play aliens. Why? Most of the aliens players do more teamwork than the marine players. I just hate seeing my teammates go play deathmatch style.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It doesn't cost 65 to build the first siege turret. It costs 40. The siege turret's range is so big, most of the time you can build the TF near a resourcer or at the very least an important passageway. Something about siege turrets needs to be toned down, whether it be the range (only shoot through one wall would be a real nice change...), the firing speed, the AE damage, the armor (if you could take them down very easily with just xenocide or something it wouldn't be much of a problem, but they can take as much punishment as sentries or more, never checked).
Now how much does that single siege turret wipe out? 14*6 + 14*6(or 8) worth of towers usually, plus the hive for 80 RP. How much does that come to again? 250 resources worth for something that costs 40 resources by itself. I usually never defend siege turrets with sentries at all, it's pointless. Static defenses in such small numbers mean nothing if the enemy has fades. Instead, I try to keep 3 marines near firing sieges at all times, and I can count the number of times I've lost a siege outpost with the fingers on one hand.
I don't strickly believe that HA by itself is overpowered. Welding is what makes them the new wall of lame. Also HMGs and GLs are insanely powerful against any defenses the aliens can put up, that isn't such a great big problem but why do the marines need siege turrets when they are atleast 4 times better at destroying buildings anyway?!?
As said by someone before me, the healing power of 8 defensive towers is *not* 80 HP per second, closer to 20 HP per second. Those 8 defs also cost 112 RPs and as such are a rare luxury, and again a single siege turret in your base could keep them all quite a distance away.
I had the factorys health bar empty and with one more bite it would have gone when a marine walked up and blew me away which really **obscenity** me off. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
I f your wondering how that game turned out i just went ono and destroyed the phase gate in there base letting the rest of the team take care of their last expansion.
One more thing, filling the marines base with spore clouds seem to demoralize them for some reason <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
As for the marines being <i>underpowered</i>, this is not true against a moderate alien team, with one or two decent players and a good commander we utterly pawnzored the aliens on ns_nothing. That was one of my best ns games.
NS is very much teambased pubs are mostly terrible for that kind of thing its hard to find a nice pub where people will actually work with u instead of F***ing Off all by themselves taking a nice spot where some people will work wit u
not to mention marines can fall due to lack of co-op
they need many things to make a strong marine team
a good commander one which at least can maybe av fast reactions we all know they cant run like computers doing things in an instant the need time to do this find u give u health and stuff
next comes with everyone sticking 2gether most peeps like going off and just killing things but u need to build and hold of various placez like resources nozzles and hives
the majority of the alien team do actually work 2gether + they don't need a commander to build anything so that takes less pressure of them of course aliens are stronger at first but teamplay does decide the tide of any battle really
From my experience on NS I'd say we win just as much as we lose, on both teams... So I'd say the teams were pretty darn balanced... which I think is a bloody good job to say the teams are so different! Well done NS team I say!
Thus, while early on it takes quite some time for resources to kick in, once you hit 33 resources and sit on it, your gorges will fill up in seconds(large 9 or 10 player teams). Later in the game, its very common as an alien for me to notice that no matter how much resources I spend, such as going onos and full upgrades, I'll be at 100 resources just as soon as I spend them. They just fill up too quickly, making resources essentially moot.
Whereas the marines still have to struggle for resources throughout most of the game. I've played as marines, held all of the map but one hive, and still struggled to get resources.
I don't know how the aliens resources per 'tick' is determined, or how long a tick is, but I can tell you that the marines seem to get about the same amount TOTAL as one alien gets. That's a bit extreme, don't you think?
The marine teams are unbalanced for this reason alone...not weapons...not siege turrets...because half of the marines...are just new players coming off of CS...or DOD...where going rambo is expected...sadly...it's a steep learning curve. Don't worry though lads...as people play more and get more experinced...we will have some dominating Marine teams...it...just takes time.
Plus it seems that chomping up and eating marines is more fun then being a marine...