Shotguns
fooockthis
Join Date: 2005-04-28 Member: 50341Members
Join Date: 2005-04-28 Member: 50341Members
Yeah shotguns,
Great weapon, perhaps abit to great.
In ns nearly nobody bothers for siege anymore, why? A sg rush is BY FAR more effective.
They kill a hive (if about 3-4 rines) in a matter of seconds, this is rediculus, let 4 gorges try to bile a cc down -> forget it. Since gorges can barely defend themselves, but rines can with a sg.
Imho SG is fine vs Aliens, they do good damage, but vs a hive while the damage is the same as vs a alien, its overpowered.
Raising the dmg of siege doesnt help, since still SG is preferred to take down a hive, if its not changed then atleast change the dmg of a gorge'es bile to the dmg of a siege.
Great weapon, perhaps abit to great.
In ns nearly nobody bothers for siege anymore, why? A sg rush is BY FAR more effective.
They kill a hive (if about 3-4 rines) in a matter of seconds, this is rediculus, let 4 gorges try to bile a cc down -> forget it. Since gorges can barely defend themselves, but rines can with a sg.
Imho SG is fine vs Aliens, they do good damage, but vs a hive while the damage is the same as vs a alien, its overpowered.
Raising the dmg of siege doesnt help, since still SG is preferred to take down a hive, if its not changed then atleast change the dmg of a gorge'es bile to the dmg of a siege.
Comments
Still, marines NEED the shotty rush. Hey, if your alien team lets 4 marines get into the hiveroom, the aliens deserve to lose.
I usualy just go in for the shotty rush when attacking a hive because seiging takes too long and I am lacking in the patience department.
Still, marines NEED the shotty rush. Hey, if your alien team lets 4 marines get into the hiveroom, the aliens deserve to lose. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sieging is indeed alot harder to do then a sg rush. But btw dont give me that: Hey if your alien team lets 4 marines get into the hiveroom. You try to defend vs 4 Jp'ers with sg's forget it, unless your team is great ur dead meat, while if 4 gorges get into your rine base...HAH 4 dead gorges. No matter how good those gorgies are.
The point is rines have 2 options of getting down a hive, 1 was intended to take down hives ( <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) the other was not (SG).
The damage should not be changed of the SG vs aliens, but it should vs hives.
Its simply to easy to take a hive down with SG's as siege was intended for this, they eigther nerf the SG vs the hive, or upgrade the siege.
Aliens have the onos to do massive damage to the cc, marines have, what, GL ? Kind of hard to defend yourself with...so gl = bile (unless uve go stupid skulks that don't leap away <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->)... So onos = shotgun
NORMAL NS:
Aliens have onos, fade and bile to effectively take down enemy structures, marines have siege, gl and shotty...seems fair enough to me...
Build a few oc's in the hive room.
By the time marines have jetpacks, Hive 2 should've been up for a while. Hive2 aliens dominate marines.
This is NOT 1.04, where you can get JP/shottie in like 4 and a half minutes.
It's not a RUSH anymore if you gotta wait till you get JPs.
Otherwise on topic.. I'll agree with what's said. If 4 marines get into the hiveroom and take it down before anyone reacts, then the aliens aren't doing a good job. It's often hard to do on a large pub, especially if you're busy taking a hive down or protecting a key location, but if the marines allow to hold off one point while sneaking into a hive, they're in advantage.
I think that once again the problem is the slippery slope.
This is NOT 1.04, where you can get JP/shottie in like 4 and a half minutes.
It's not a RUSH anymore if you gotta wait till you get JPs.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If marines hold res well(like 5 rt) enough they can get 5 jp/sg out at around 4:30 min I have seen /done this in scrims and matches.
Although for pubs the jp shotty rush requires too much cordination.
Ninja Phases gates + a shotty rush are fairly common on pubs, these work mostly because of alien incompedance.
I made a post about alien scouting in the strat forms awhile back here it is:
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=86111&hl=' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....topic=86111&hl=</a>
Still, marines NEED the shotty rush. Hey, if your alien team lets 4 marines get into the hiveroom, the aliens deserve to lose. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sieging is indeed alot harder to do then a sg rush. But btw dont give me that: Hey if your alien team lets 4 marines get into the hiveroom. You try to defend vs 4 Jp'ers with sg's forget it, unless your team is great ur dead meat, while if 4 gorges get into your rine base...HAH 4 dead gorges. No matter how good those gorgies are.
The point is rines have 2 options of getting down a hive, 1 was intended to take down hives ( <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) the other was not (SG).
The damage should not be changed of the SG vs aliens, but it should vs hives.
Its simply to easy to take a hive down with SG's as siege was intended for this, they eigther nerf the SG vs the hive, or upgrade the siege.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Defending against jetpackers is easy. Just don't let them get to the hive room.
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Jun 18 2005, 01:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Jun 18 2005, 01:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you let the marines have proto-tech and you're not actively scouting and/or placing OCs, your team phails at NS, or you've already lost anyways.
By the time marines have jetpacks, Hive 2 should've been up for a while. Hive2 aliens dominate marines.
This is NOT 1.04, where you can get JP/shottie in like 4 and a half minutes.
It's not a RUSH anymore if you gotta wait till you get JPs.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes you can jetpack shottie rush at 4 and a half minutes. Didn't you watch CO2 vs Refract?
It was amazing, I have to admit, but a huge gamble.
shotties are basically the one offensive weapon that the marines have, and there is nothing overpowered about them. 2 fades hold back a good squad of 3-4 shotties. aliens just need to try a crazy thing called <b>teamwork</b>...
shotties are fine tbh
If your a skulk and you don't jump you can't take advantage of the faster bhop movement speed and will be an easy shot anyways. Try to orchistrate it so that you bite the marines right at thier feet, but while you are far away you want to move around as much as possible and make it hard to pin 4 or more pellets on you. Overall, get behind marines and go for ambushes as much as possible.
If your a skulk and you don't jump you can't take advantage of the faster bhop movement speed and will be an easy shot anyways. Try to orchistrate it so that you bite the marines right at thier feet, but while you are far away you want to move around as much as possible and make it hard to pin 4 or more pellets on you. Overall, get behind marines and go for ambushes as much as possible. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i mean when you're about within biterange anyway.
Aliens have the onos to do massive damage to the cc, marines have, what, GL ? Kind of hard to defend yourself with...so gl = bile (unless uve go stupid skulks that don't leap away <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->)... So onos = shotgun
NORMAL NS:
Aliens have onos, fade and bile to effectively take down enemy structures, marines have siege, gl and shotty...seems fair enough to me... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its impossible to compair two sides of NS. The gorge is not the commander. The onos is not the shotgun.
Aliens have the onos to do massive damage to the cc, marines have, what, GL ? Kind of hard to defend yourself with...so gl = bile (unless uve go stupid skulks that don't leap away <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->)... So onos = shotgun
NORMAL NS:
Aliens have onos, fade and bile to effectively take down enemy structures, marines have siege, gl and shotty...seems fair enough to me... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its impossible to compair two sides of NS. The gorge is not the commander. The onos is not the shotgun. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good damage, easy to get killed:
- Gorge
- GL
Fighting + damaging:
- Fade
- Shotgun
MASSIVE damage:
- Onos
- Comm (turrets for players & sieges for strucs, so comm = onos haze ! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
Seriously though, I like shotguns as is. The delay between shots makes it a matter of skill to take down fades and other lifeforms. Sieges shouldn't be the only way to take down a hive, they take a great deal of time and aliens tend to win out in the war of attrition. They have their proper times and uses, and that four hundred damage wipes out alien structures right away. However, this isn't TFC. The two sides aren't identical. Four gorges doesn't equal four marines and that's simply because of their role in the game. The fighting in NS takes place over hives, not marine start, and in most games the command chair is hardly destroyed by the end.
Whenever the kharaa attack marine start they rarely go for the chair. And that's because the game isn't won or lost regarding the chair like hives are. Sure, the ability to drop things is important, but the cc is usually the last thing destroyed, preceded by the ips, obs, arms lab, and potentially, the advanced armory. Of which, four bile-bombing gorges can easily destroy if they get the drop on the marine team. Which is, after all, the purpose of the shotgun rush. The perfect shotgun rush is one where you get the "Hive under attack" message and then "Hive is dying message" within thirty seconds of each other and didn't even realize that there was an active phase gate up.
By the way, a gorge's bilebomb has the advantage of hitting several targets at once. If 4 gorges get inside of a marine base and no one is around to defend it save the comm, it's probably gonna lose a lot of stuff.
And if you have hive 2 shotgun rushes go straight out the window with umbra on the hive. Umbra makes your hive have from 7000 hp to 10500 hp. Try it, forces marines to seige
(another advantage to seige, works past umbra, seige is pretty much the only way to beat an alien team at hive 2 face to face)
Shotty:
*Aliens have fades and onos, you have an unoccupied hive with 1 marine to build a phase gate. Get that down asap before the big boys arrive.
*The aliens have skulks and 1 fade and a hive without ocs. Send in 4 jp/sgs to kill it
Siege:
*There's fades and onos and an umbra lerk waiting for your heavy train. Stay back and siege.
*There are 8 ocs in the hive, you have hmgs to guard with.
Just a few obvious examples.
I'm sure the devs intended for marines to shoot down hives if they want to.
Too many aliens alerted and waiting inside the hive or Ocs? get Sieges
If there was to be an auto-shotty, i think alot of people would have something to say. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The "u" should be "you" and here should be a period at the end of your sentence.
Focus hurts jetpackers tremendously, but the aliens having focus doesn't mean the end. A good group of marines will be welding each other every single time one of them gets hit.
Pubs lose.
EDIT: Also in his post regarding punctuation etc., he talks about "sentances", isn't that supposed to be sentEnces ? (I'm not English so I'm not sure...), and he puts a comma in front of the word "and".
Skulks can usually bank on hitboxes to survive those confrontations, don't forget <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->