Ns_stargate-sg1 (beta3)
iG0r
Join Date: 2004-06-28 Member: 29593Members
Join Date: 2004-06-28 Member: 29593Members
<b>download:</b> <a href='http://members.chello.at/support/maps/ns_stargate-sg1-beta3.zip' target='_blank'>ns_stargate-sg1-beta3.zip</a>
welcome to the beta 3 of ns_stargate-sg1
most were the opinion that the gameplay sux <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> to hard for marines...
the first change in beta 3 is a better and more complex gameplay for (i hope) both sides. the map is bigger and more complex. more ways, vents and resources.
<img src='http://members.chello.at/support/maps/ns_stargate-sg1-beta3-001_r.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://members.chello.at/support/maps/ns_stargate-sg1-beta3-002_r.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://members.chello.at/support/maps/ns_stargate-sg1-beta3-003_r.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://members.chello.at/support/maps/ns_stargate-sg1-beta3-004_r.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://members.chello.at/support/maps/ns_stargate-sg1-beta3-005_r.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://members.chello.at/support/maps/ns_stargate-sg1-beta3-006_r.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://members.chello.at/support/maps/ns_stargate-sg1-beta3-007_r.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://members.chello.at/support/maps/ns_stargate-sg1-beta3-008_r.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://members.chello.at/support/maps/ns_stargate-sg1-beta3-009_r.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://members.chello.at/support/maps/ns_stargate-sg1-beta3-010_r.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
welcome to the beta 3 of ns_stargate-sg1
most were the opinion that the gameplay sux <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> to hard for marines...
the first change in beta 3 is a better and more complex gameplay for (i hope) both sides. the map is bigger and more complex. more ways, vents and resources.
<img src='http://members.chello.at/support/maps/ns_stargate-sg1-beta3-001_r.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://members.chello.at/support/maps/ns_stargate-sg1-beta3-002_r.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://members.chello.at/support/maps/ns_stargate-sg1-beta3-003_r.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://members.chello.at/support/maps/ns_stargate-sg1-beta3-004_r.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://members.chello.at/support/maps/ns_stargate-sg1-beta3-005_r.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://members.chello.at/support/maps/ns_stargate-sg1-beta3-006_r.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://members.chello.at/support/maps/ns_stargate-sg1-beta3-007_r.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://members.chello.at/support/maps/ns_stargate-sg1-beta3-008_r.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://members.chello.at/support/maps/ns_stargate-sg1-beta3-009_r.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://members.chello.at/support/maps/ns_stargate-sg1-beta3-010_r.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Comments
ANYWAYS enjoy my suggestings and I hop you keep maeking this map cuz it LOOKS COOL and if you balanced the issues it couldf be a <span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><b>OFFICIAL MAP </b></span><span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:gray'>of some clan server somewhere</span></span>
on beta 3 there are only 2 places whre wpole goes over 600 (600-800). 1st places is the marine spawn, look down on the gate and you got wpoly max 780. 2nd place is the left upper hive with wpoly max 860.
but the average wpoly is 50 to 350 max, that applies also to the relative big outside area. all in all I find it acceptable.
your lucky igor, my stargate is so complex, that in a box room with no detail, its around 440 polys by itself. even with cluster portal use, i get horrible r_speeds in my map (1100 max in marine start, 850 alien gate room) heh
use sv_downloadurl and no one will leave your server during download. im sure i will leave your server too when i have to download 10mb+ with ~7kb/s <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
use sv_downloadurl and no one will leave your server during download. im sure i will leave your server too when i have to download 10mb+ with ~7kb/s <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that is in use mate i said that in ya last beta.... its just the amount of files they see and they all said they cba and the ones who did play it well if i quoted them i would surely get banned off these forums......
Dont get me wrong ya theme and all is great but i still believe there is alot of improvement needed in the gameplay which was the main complaint, perhaps the next beta gameplay will be better and then i can convince all the ones that cba to actually ba and download it.
if someone has suggestions in order to improve gameplay or something else, please let me know <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
for concrete suggestions i am very grateful. and i would like to thank all serveradmins those have my map(s) in there cycle.
<b>General Advice</b>
Basically, in order for a good NS map, there needs to always be a choice of paths. Try to put at least three exits from every major room (Hive, MS, Resource node,) that lead to three different destinations.
Don't get me wrong, some bottlenecks are good to force players into combat, but the map you've built is almost ALL bottleneck.
<b>Gate Room</b>
This is the biggest offender, because of the Stargate. You have NO IDEA if the other side of the gate is a safe haven or an ambush of enemy structures. On top of that, there is NO WAY to win the map without going through the gate! This turns it into a horrible bottleneck. Whoever secures their side of the gate first, automatically wins. Most likely, BOTH sides will build up huge defenses and the map will take forever to end.
To fix the Gate room, do <i>one</i> of the following:
- Make the Readyroom be Stargte Command, and the rest of the map Stargate command (PREFERED) OR
- Put the Earth gate right up against the wall and put alien gate up against a wall (mountian cliff face, temple wall, etc.) so that there is an actual hole in the wall that marines and kharra can just step through. This will make it less like the show, but it will allow marines and aliens to see through the gate, shoot through the gate, and make an informed decision as to when to move. It will be as if the gate were simply a doorway between two rooms, albiet a hella strategic door that everyone HAS to go through. OR
-Put Func_Nobuilds on both sides of the gate, filling the entire gate room and the entire room where the gate leads. This will make it impossible for either side to build defenses around the gate. It will severely limit some tatics but at least the gate area will not be an automatic stalemate engine.
<b>Marine Start</b>
The MS is basically a dead end. Dead ends in NS <i>suck</i>. Every room needs to have at least two exits, and many areas should have three. Even if you decide to keep Cheyene Mountain and the Gate Room as a playable part of the map, the marines need to have a choice of routes out of the MS. Or to put it another way, the aliens need a choice of ways to get IN.
To fix the Marine Start, do <i>one</i> of the following:
-Make the ReadyRoom be Cheyene Mountian, and make the rest of the map, even the MS, take place on the alien planet. For the MS, make an egyptian temple, sort of like the one where the first stargate lead to on Abydos. Except, that temple only had ONE door. This one should have two or three exits, leading off to TOTALLY different areas of the map. OR
-Add a second staircase on the other side of the command center so the marines have a choice of routes. Yes, technically the broken window is a second route, but it's not viable for marines so it's not good enough. In my joke suggestion mape above, I've added not only a second staircase, but two side hallways that will also get you down there. This is overkill. But you at least need more than one way out.
<b>Pointless Rooms</b>
- The bathroom is stupid. A door that says BATHROOM on it is enough to convince us that yes, this is earth, and yes, they do have bathrooms here. Nobody would ever walk into that room deliberately. It's a pointless dead-end, of no strategic value whatsoever. Kill it.
- Double nodes are stupid. In fact, all the resource nodes that are placed on the "marine half" of the map, other than one for the Marine Spawn, should be gotten rid of. I know you want to show us all these cool little rooms in Cheyene Mountain, but if going somewhere doesn't get you closer to a have, it's a waste of time to encourage the marines to go there. If the marines want resource nodes, they should need to encroach upon enemy territory to get them. Period.
Seriously, all of this stuff is in <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/Mapping_Guidelines.html' target='_blank'>The Natural Selection Mapping Guidelines</a>. use a web-like layout.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/guide_files/images/ns_caged_minimap.gif' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/guide_file...ged_minimap.gif</a>
USE A WEB-LIKE LAYOUT, DAMMIT!
This type of layout is what makes NS games WORK. Stop thinking like a CS player, and start copying the layout of official maps. Each of your individual rooms look GREAT, they just don't HOOK TOGETHER right.
Try thinking from the marine's point of view when you map:
Marines should
-Start in a secure location
-Have a number of routes out of their base
-<i>Never</i> be required to go through any particular point in order to get from "marine territory" to "kharra territory." The very concept of a room like the gate room violates this rule and makes NS gameplay impossible.
-Have to run for at least thirty seconds before they see a hive.
-Be equally distant from all three hives. Otherwise, the marines will ALWAYS raid the closest hive, every game.
Marines should NOT:
-Be able to run from one hive to another in less than 30 seconds
-Be able to seige more than one important thing (such as a two hive locations, two resource nozels, or a hive location and a resource nozel) using a single upgraded turret factory. Make yourself some cylinder brushes the range of a Siege cannon and the build range of a TF, and use them to determine which targets are seigible from which areas.
-Become lost too easily
-Get stuck in a dead-end
-Have any reason to go build somewhere that isn't in enemy territory.
I'd recommend keeping the hive rooms you already have, spreading them out equidistantly from the MS, and then building tunnels and rooms and hallways to connect them to the MS. Then add side routes from one res to another, but not from one hive to another without going through some marine territory near the middle of the map.
I was actually commenting on THIS map:
I'm SO sorry! >.<
I haven't actually played the map this thread is about. I suck. >.<
<b>General Advice</b>
Basically, in order for a good NS map, there needs to always be a choice of paths. Try to put at least three exits from every major room (Hive, MS, Resource node,) that lead to three different destinations.
Don't get me wrong, some bottlenecks are good to force players into combat, but the map you've built is almost ALL bottleneck.
<b>Gate Room</b>
This is the biggest offender, because of the Stargate. You have NO IDEA if the other side of the gate is a safe haven or an ambush of enemy structures. On top of that, there is NO WAY to win the map without going through the gate! This turns it into a horrible bottleneck. Whoever secures their side of the gate first, automatically wins. Most likely, BOTH sides will build up huge defenses and the map will take forever to end.
To fix the Gate room, do <i>one</i> of the following:
- Make the Readyroom be Stargte Command, and the rest of the map Stargate command (PREFERED) OR
- Put the Earth gate right up against the wall and put alien gate up against a wall (mountian cliff face, temple wall, etc.) so that there is an actual hole in the wall that marines and kharra can just step through. This will make it less like the show, but it will allow marines and aliens to see through the gate, shoot through the gate, and make an informed decision as to when to move. It will be as if the gate were simply a doorway between two rooms, albiet a hella strategic door that everyone HAS to go through. OR
-Put Func_Nobuilds on both sides of the gate, filling the entire gate room and the entire room where the gate leads. This will make it impossible for either side to build defenses around the gate. It will severely limit some tatics but at least the gate area will not be an automatic stalemate engine.
<b>Marine Start</b>
The MS is basically a dead end. Dead ends in NS <i>suck</i>. Every room needs to have at least two exits, and many areas should have three. Even if you decide to keep Cheyene Mountain and the Gate Room as a playable part of the map, the marines need to have a choice of routes out of the MS. Or to put it another way, the aliens need a choice of ways to get IN.
To fix the Marine Start, do <i>one</i> of the following:
-Make the ReadyRoom be Cheyene Mountian, and make the rest of the map, even the MS, take place on the alien planet. For the MS, make an egyptian temple, sort of like the one where the first stargate lead to on Abydos. Except, that temple only had ONE door. This one should have two or three exits, leading off to TOTALLY different areas of the map. OR
-Add a second staircase on the other side of the command center so the marines have a choice of routes. Yes, technically the broken window is a second route, but it's not viable for marines so it's not good enough. In my joke suggestion mape above, I've added not only a second staircase, but two side hallways that will also get you down there. This is overkill. But you at least need more than one way out.
<b>Pointless Rooms</b>
- The bathroom is stupid. A door that says BATHROOM on it is enough to convince us that yes, this is earth, and yes, they do have bathrooms here. Nobody would ever walk into that room deliberately. It's a pointless dead-end, of no strategic value whatsoever. Kill it.
- Double nodes are stupid. In fact, all the resource nodes that are placed on the "marine half" of the map, other than one for the Marine Spawn, should be gotten rid of. I know you want to show us all these cool little rooms in Cheyene Mountain, but if going somewhere doesn't get you closer to a have, it's a waste of time to encourage the marines to go there. If the marines want resource nodes, they should need to encroach upon enemy territory to get them. Period.
Seriously, all of this stuff is in <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/Mapping_Guidelines.html' target='_blank'>The Natural Selection Mapping Guidelines</a>. use a web-like layout.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/guide_files/images/ns_caged_minimap.gif' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/guide_file...ged_minimap.gif</a>
USE A WEB-LIKE LAYOUT, DAMMIT!
This type of layout is what makes NS games WORK. Stop thinking like a CS player, and start copying the layout of official maps. Each of your individual rooms look GREAT, they just don't HOOK TOGETHER right.
Try thinking from the marine's point of view when you map:
Marines should
-Start in a secure location
-Have a number of routes out of their base
-<i>Never</i> be required to go through any particular point in order to get from "marine territory" to "kharra territory." The very concept of a room like the gate room violates this rule and makes NS gameplay impossible.
-Have to run for at least thirty seconds before they see a hive.
-Be equally distant from all three hives. Otherwise, the marines will ALWAYS raid the closest hive, every game.
Marines should NOT:
-Be able to run from one hive to another in less than 30 seconds
-Be able to seige more than one important thing (such as a two hive locations, two resource nozels, or a hive location and a resource nozel) using a single upgraded turret factory. Make yourself some cylinder brushes the range of a Siege cannon and the build range of a TF, and use them to determine which targets are seigible from which areas.
-Become lost too easily
-Get stuck in a dead-end
-Have any reason to go build somewhere that isn't in enemy territory.
I'd recommend keeping the hive rooms you already have, spreading them out equidistantly from the MS, and then building tunnels and rooms and hallways to connect them to the MS. Then add side routes from one res to another, but not from one hive to another without going through some marine territory near the middle of the map. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
use an active camera on both sides of the gate so youc an see whats on the other side <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I forget how to do it, but I do know it's possible ala CS style cameras!
I was actually commenting on THIS map:
I'm SO sorry! >.<
I haven't actually played the map this thread is about. I suck. >.< <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
nobody is perfect ^^
here a small preview for beta 4 and the new layout. i would like to thank all for there postings, emails and serveradmins for running and playing my map. i hope beta 4 will be the last gameplaytest so i can spend some time to add detail and a better look <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<img src='http://members.chello.at/support/maps/ns_stargate-sg1-beta4_prev.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
but here is just one thing isn't it a little to reasorce heavy?
with how many reasorces there is the gameplay would be significantly speed up and really hectic, plus if teams are unbalanced it could be over very fast
anyways just pointing out what i thought might be a problem, i love the screenshots
this one? do you talking about the map?
<!--QuoteBegin-CrazySteve+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CrazySteve)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
but here is just one thing isn't it a little to reasorce heavy?
with how many reasorces there is the gameplay would be significantly speed up and really hectic, plus if teams are unbalanced it could be over very fast
anyways just pointing out what i thought might be a problem, i love the screenshots
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
when you play this map on a server for 12 to 20 players you are right there are to much resnodes. i do my best to balance it well.