To Censor Or Not To Censor, That Is The Question
greydmiyu
Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9234Members
Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9234Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Lock it quick.</div> Ok, in many threads the issue of censoring swear words has come up. There are a lot of argumentas against it and I want to address them here.
<b>1: Censoring is lame, everyone does it.</b>
Llama argument. Everyone doesn't do it. Quite a few people, in fact, do not. They may swear to themselves but at most put "doh" to chat.
<b>2: It is against freedom of speech.</b>
Erm, nope. Servers are privately owned and operated. The property ower has the right to deem how his property will be used and that includes language. The free speech provisions of the constitution are binding against the government alone. The laws have extended this pretty much to public entitites.
Want some examples? Fine. Would you, as a property owner, allow someone to plant a sign in your yard advertising for a candidate you dislike? Do you feel it would be against freedom of speech by preventing people from using your property as such? If someone entered your home and was being vulgar would you just let them or would you ask them politely to leave?
Sorry, the whole "freedom of speech" issue does not stand up against scrutiny. Noone has the right to use your property for reasons against your wishes.
<b>3: It happens in the movies/in real life/on mars/in cars.</b>
Yeah, and aliens are munching on your grandmother right now. Point is this is a game and subject to many rules, this is another. Deal with it, don't break it. Furthermore there are words to counter this like professionalism, courtesy and maturity which also exist in the real world or in the field.
In my experience players who don't cuss are far better players of team games than those who do not. Clearly there are exceptions but on the whole that has been my experience not only on NS servers but CS servers, UT (both) servers, AC, DAoC, etc. People who cuss are just generally not people worth the bother.
Also it comes down to a matter of rules. Each server has the right to set whatever rules they wish. However most have the same basic rules which boils down to: don't cheat. It has also been my experience that the people who don't obey the "minor" or "silly" rules are the very same people who are more apt to cheat.
A good example of this is my favorite CS server. It has several rules clearly outlined when you log in. No swearing, no cheating, respect the admin's will, don't camp (as opposed to guard and they do know the difference) but first and foremost is: NO AWP. Do they restrict the AWP outright like adminmod can? No. They use a plugin. First time you buy one slapped to 5 health. Second time, killed. Third time kicked. Fourth time banned for 15 minutes. Fifth time banned permanantly.
Know what happens? Almost every person who buys and AWP is also one who swears a lot, skyswims on assault, camps on CT when ya need to rescue hostages, hides on T when ya need to plant the bomb , is abusive to the other players and in general doesn't play the game. Their fun seems to be derived from the grief of others. It is clear they didn't read the rules on the way in. Even more is that they have no interest in reading what others say since everyone tells them no AWP. 1, 2, 3 buys in a row, out they go. Clearly they have no interest in following the rules.
Same goes for the NS servers I've been on. Most of the people who are cussing up a storm are the very same people who berate the commander, don't listen to their teammates, are more interested in single combat than actually winning the game. It is clear they don't want to follow the rules or play the game, all they care about is causing grief to others and inflating their own ego. If a cuss filter is too much for that ego to bear and they go elsewhere (isn't like there aren't 400+ other NS servers) all the better.
It all boils down to this; as an administrator I have the right to set whatever limits I want on my server. I expect my players to not cheat. I expect them to play the game and not mess it up for others. In short I expect them to be <b>mature</b>. One marker of maturity is not cussing. If a player can't handle it, the software will help out. The software is there for the occasional transgression and is not programmed to kick or ban anyone. But if I find that a player is circumventing it or being excessive I have no qualms about booting them. Maturity counts more than experience or skill. I don't care how good a player is as commander, grunt or alien if they cannot be mature and considerate of their fellow players.
<b>1: Censoring is lame, everyone does it.</b>
Llama argument. Everyone doesn't do it. Quite a few people, in fact, do not. They may swear to themselves but at most put "doh" to chat.
<b>2: It is against freedom of speech.</b>
Erm, nope. Servers are privately owned and operated. The property ower has the right to deem how his property will be used and that includes language. The free speech provisions of the constitution are binding against the government alone. The laws have extended this pretty much to public entitites.
Want some examples? Fine. Would you, as a property owner, allow someone to plant a sign in your yard advertising for a candidate you dislike? Do you feel it would be against freedom of speech by preventing people from using your property as such? If someone entered your home and was being vulgar would you just let them or would you ask them politely to leave?
Sorry, the whole "freedom of speech" issue does not stand up against scrutiny. Noone has the right to use your property for reasons against your wishes.
<b>3: It happens in the movies/in real life/on mars/in cars.</b>
Yeah, and aliens are munching on your grandmother right now. Point is this is a game and subject to many rules, this is another. Deal with it, don't break it. Furthermore there are words to counter this like professionalism, courtesy and maturity which also exist in the real world or in the field.
In my experience players who don't cuss are far better players of team games than those who do not. Clearly there are exceptions but on the whole that has been my experience not only on NS servers but CS servers, UT (both) servers, AC, DAoC, etc. People who cuss are just generally not people worth the bother.
Also it comes down to a matter of rules. Each server has the right to set whatever rules they wish. However most have the same basic rules which boils down to: don't cheat. It has also been my experience that the people who don't obey the "minor" or "silly" rules are the very same people who are more apt to cheat.
A good example of this is my favorite CS server. It has several rules clearly outlined when you log in. No swearing, no cheating, respect the admin's will, don't camp (as opposed to guard and they do know the difference) but first and foremost is: NO AWP. Do they restrict the AWP outright like adminmod can? No. They use a plugin. First time you buy one slapped to 5 health. Second time, killed. Third time kicked. Fourth time banned for 15 minutes. Fifth time banned permanantly.
Know what happens? Almost every person who buys and AWP is also one who swears a lot, skyswims on assault, camps on CT when ya need to rescue hostages, hides on T when ya need to plant the bomb , is abusive to the other players and in general doesn't play the game. Their fun seems to be derived from the grief of others. It is clear they didn't read the rules on the way in. Even more is that they have no interest in reading what others say since everyone tells them no AWP. 1, 2, 3 buys in a row, out they go. Clearly they have no interest in following the rules.
Same goes for the NS servers I've been on. Most of the people who are cussing up a storm are the very same people who berate the commander, don't listen to their teammates, are more interested in single combat than actually winning the game. It is clear they don't want to follow the rules or play the game, all they care about is causing grief to others and inflating their own ego. If a cuss filter is too much for that ego to bear and they go elsewhere (isn't like there aren't 400+ other NS servers) all the better.
It all boils down to this; as an administrator I have the right to set whatever limits I want on my server. I expect my players to not cheat. I expect them to play the game and not mess it up for others. In short I expect them to be <b>mature</b>. One marker of maturity is not cussing. If a player can't handle it, the software will help out. The software is there for the occasional transgression and is not programmed to kick or ban anyone. But if I find that a player is circumventing it or being excessive I have no qualms about booting them. Maturity counts more than experience or skill. I don't care how good a player is as commander, grunt or alien if they cannot be mature and considerate of their fellow players.
Comments
Censorship is just another form of "baby-filters" that ruins our TV shows and Radio's.
Every kid/child in the USA will know every swear in the alphabet by Junior High.
Also, it takes the fun out of the things..
Also, swearing or not does -not- make you a good player.
A good player is somebody who sits down and dedicate's working to make their "aiming" and "movement" better.
Every game is just "point-and-click", they'res no "skill" to that.
Also, you're supposed to work as a team.. not as yourself.
Occasional swearing is fine, but childish insults "typing it out" instead of growing some balls and saying it on the mic. is pretty laughable.
Honestly, I swear alot and I have plenty of screenshots where I'm always on the top 5.
swearing tends to create tension and remove the fun from the game. If the game isn't fun why play? In my server I ask people to "watch the language please" It usually helps. Every now and then somebody wants to get tough with me and start cursing me and everyone out .. only then do I award them with a warning and eventually a kick if it escalates.
Let me tell you the difference.
Age.
You give a 14 year old an place where he figures out fast he can say all those words he can't say and he does. You give a 22 year old a server that allows cussing and what you get is a guy that says the f-word when he dies in the middle of something really important. That would be me.
I do not throw long strings of cuss words out (on my server or anyone elses) but if I'm wearing a jetpack and carrying a shotgun, get sent ahead to a hive location because I'm fast and manuverable and am in the middle of setting up a phase gate so the 4 heavy armored marines at the other end can get there and secure it and a fade I didn't know was there with silence to avoid my motion sensors slaps me from behind and kills me one "notch" away from finishing that gate, yeah I wanna yell "**obscenity** HELL!".
If you wanna kick me for letting out a string of excessive unwarranted cuss words, go right ahead. It won't happen, I don't do that. But if you're gonna filter my ability to express that frustration (especially with a filter that absorbs the whole line instead of just removing the offending word) all you are going to do is ADD to my frustration. Nothing is worse (NOTHING!) than when you type out a long statement and it gets absorbed by the filter because you used a word that is used in daily conversation, like damn, **obscenity** or hell, or even stronger words occasionally.
Now when it comes to slurs I'm completely the other way around, which I suppose is hypocrtical. But you will never find an argument to convince me a slur is acceptable or needed. And if you type out a long statement with a slur in it I can garuntee it will always be something that wasn't worth reading.
Just my, as always unsolicited, 2 cents
now sing with me.
"kill kill kill
blood makes the grass grow
kill kill kill
blood makes the grass grow"
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->yeah I wanna yell "**obscenity** HELL!".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. Which is why I said in point 1 that people are capable of swearing to themselves but type something completely different. I've been there. I've yelled loud enough to wake my GF sleeping 2 rooms away. I do, however, know how to take the finger off the broadcast button.
Battletech:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Honestly, I swear alot and I have plenty of screenshots where I'm always on the top 5. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First off who cares if you're in the top 5? Tell me, as commander, would you be in the top 5? As gorge would you be in the top 5? Score doesn't matter as much as results. That is why I worded my post just as I did. In my experience people who do not swear are far better at <b>team</b> games than those who do. There are exceptions. I stated that. Point is though that often times the swear storms are coming from the rambos who are off doing their own thing and not helping the team at all.
(edit here)
Let me give an example of what I mean. I've played CS for ages. Beta 4 is when I got into it. I'm by no means a CS newb. Today I was on T in the garage. My last teammate had just died, I had 20hp left, a scout and a glock. The enemy had 4 guys with assult weapons. The timer clicked to 30 seconds. What is the correct play <b>for the team</b>. Dropped behind the trashcan, pulled the glock in case they look and wait since they can't grab the hostages and make it out in under 30 seconds. The round was won.
I got cussed out by three members of the opposite team for camping and being **obscenity** because I made the smartest decision for my team to win. Somehow I was supposed to pop out of hiding and face down 4 guys with assult rifles with a glock and 20hp. These same guys in the same game on the same map are the ones who would make their way in to where the hostages where, <i>leave the hostages there</i> and then go wandering back outside to get killed by the team that rushed sewers.
Why they thought they were better than me: they had 14:10 to my 10:12. Why I knew I was playing better than them: 9:5 Ts over CTs with 3 of those wins from being a "**obscenity** camper" and not rushing out to face their superior numbers and/or give them the advantage of having the hostages to move as they choose.
My reactions aren't as high as some of these guys. In the gaming community I'm an old fart (29). But I'm constantly the one who tries to plant the bomb, defuse the bomb, guard the hostages, rescue the hostages, et al. I play the team game and don't give a rat's butt about my personal score. I once went 5:22 because I told my team I am rushing one door the CTs always camp and if anyone wanted to follow me and let me take the bullets, so be it. Almost every time the CTs didn't expect a rush that fast and we won because we got behind them faster than they thought possible. But I died. Boo-hoo, so what.
Against the lamers who cuss up a storm and think that because they have a better personal score that somehow they are better at the game as a whole I'll lose about 55-60% of the time in a 1:1 shootout. But let's look at the team scores sometime or the quantifiable stats (bombs planted, bombs successfully planted, bombs defuse attempts, bomb defuses succeeded, hostages touched, hostages rescued) and the story changes.
BTW, Battletech, I've played with you. In fact I've played with you three times now on Space.net. Hate to say it but you're one of the people I had in mind when I wrote that statement. I did not enjoy, at all, the fact that you were constantly cussing out the commander because you were off ramboing on your own and he wasn't instantly responsive with calls for medpack and ammo. If you think that is fun, you can have it. All it did, for the entire team, was make everyone frustrated and **obscenity** off. Frustrated and **obscenity** off does not equal fun in many people's books. Your actions caused at least 4 people on that team to either drop or, in the case of one commander, switch to aliens.
When you toned it down, it was cool. I'd have to grant that you've got a good game going. But on the whole I stand by what I said in my closing. Skills don't matter. experience doesn't matter. Maturity does. It is understandable that people get frustrated but it takes less effort to mutter under your breath than it does to either type anything out or call out on voice "You ****ing newb if you'd ****ing dropped ammo I would have had the *** **** hive. Why the **** didn't you. **** newb commander." Not an exact quote, but close enough.
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When you toned it down, it was cool. I'd have to grant that you've got a good game going. But on the whole I stand by what I said in my closing. Skills don't matter. experience doesn't matter. Maturity does. It is understandable that people get frustrated but it takes less effort to mutter under your breath than it does to either type anything out or call out on voice "You ****ing newb if you'd ****ing dropped ammo I would have had the *** **** hive. Why the **** didn't you. **** newb commander." Not an exact quote, but close enough.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The only time I "**obscenity**-whine-cuss-insult-yell" is when people either try to act cool with their little "type-it-out" insults that they can't say on a $5 mic.
Other times I **obscenity** is because (well, today) I was standing infront of a hive with a grenade launcher, must of put atleast 30 grenade's into it.. hit ammo request, 5 seconds later.. the commander sends me a command chair! lmao
It doesn't take a rocketscientist to be a commander, I learned after just 2 trys.. Gorge was just 1 try.
I'm the original and only. =P