all the indoor areas are standard. Its true that these are 2d outdoor images, but these just look better than all other outdoor areas i have ever seen in half-life maps, that is what im crazy about. The other maps (especially those from Merk and Relic) are great too, really amazing, but they are good because the mappers are good AND NS is made to support those type of maps. This map could be in TFC too (to look at the screens), but to fit them in NS is simply revolutionary. I wouldnt want to spread those textures, because one map this style is more than enough, dont make a mappack of these since NS goal is to make other maps then these.
Hello, Thanx for all the positive response! Of course the plants ( trees, grass etc ) are just 2d images, but thats the way it is done in every game. As far as i know, the HL engine does not support any vertex- / pixelshader <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo--> so there is no other way to create such things. And again people do not worry about the indoor areas. I am sure, that 90% of the map will be indoors !!! I thinks this little "garden-section" adds to some kind of realism.... I mean come on . Who in the name of god would create a labyrinth (?!?) of hallways and useless rooms? I don't think people in the future want to live in some kind of a high-tech sewer...
btw. r_speeds are at around 500 ... I guess i'll have to take away some grass to reduce it in the final map :o).
Wow...I really dig the second set of shots that you posted. And I personally don't think outdoor areas are bad if you have them in little alleys like it looks like you have them in the pics.
Pleeease, do not make an outdoor map for NS. It can't be accepted officially. Your shots look nice though. I would highly suggest making this map for some other mod that really needs it (Starship Trooper perhaps?).
KassingerShades of greyJoin Date: 2002-02-20Member: 229Members, Constellation
No outdoor areas at all? Does this include badmofos map? :/
I just hope that Flayra just was in a hurry and didn't read that this was the map was mainly indoor...
One thing you could to would be to make it in spacestation with a greenhouse looking out at space, and lots of artificial lighting to keep the plants alive. That could be atmospheric, especially if it was made dark with strong spotlights.
realityisdeadEmployed by Raven Software after making ns_nothingJoin Date: 2002-01-26Member: 94Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Kassinger, I have a feeling Flayra was just in a hurry... regardless, outdoors areas should probably, for the most part, be avoided.
IFA, I'm not sure what free site hosting companies allow for image sharing or hosting. I'm pretty sure someone pointed one out recently though... can't remember.
Looks sort of like the UT2 shots in that grassy arena with the water in the middle.
Anyways, for keeping lvl 3 fliers and jetpacks out of the sky you can use a few func_push or trigger_push wahtever it is, and have them point down (maybe?) and get increasingly stronger, instead of a simple clip brush which would be pretty lame to anyone who hits their head on the invisible ceiling <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
This way you can have a few outdoor areas where combat is entirely possible and Flayra could possibly accept it if the rest of the map is up to snuff.
Hah, just make sure its for the SST mod located at www.games-fusion.net/~sst . I know these guys and they are doing pretty good. Ekaj also knows them. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
Well, Flayra is the coder of the mod and pretty much the head dude 'round here, so his statement (albeit a bit hurried) is official. If it's an outdoor map, it won't make it in. However, I have seen a few maps with one tiny little outdoor area, which ends up being fine (at least from what I've seen of his reactions). However, I would HIGHLY suggest that you avoid outdoor areas in general. A tiny one here or there is fine, but not anything large.
However, you are more than welcome to take your outdoor areas, and stick them in greenhouses and/or indoor parks inside of a building, which would -totally- fit with the theme of NS. A space station/ship/craft/base would need something in it like that.
I have been busy lately, but i managed to create a tiny movie of the part shown on the screenshots. You will see, that this area is small, and if you run it takes you about 3 seconds to pass it. ( on video i am crouching). After this small section you will be right back in the dark hallways!. Well check it out.
well i just watched that movie and it looks good, but it's liek there's no glass in this greenhouse, mayeb take another glasstexture? Or haven't you put any in?
Hi Yes I will add glass :-) also there will be a different skymap. Also i think i might have to go donw with the grass :-/. R_speeds are no Problem... The big Problem is the limit of maximum entety brushes.... I did a test with 15 trees and lots of grass.... Well i was able to do 5 trees and floor full of grass (7) within the entety brush limit... ( this scene is 3 trees, 4 grass ). so i might come close to the limtit while creating more parts of the map... But i am confident, that i can fit the whole scene!
that looks extreamly cool, I like those plants and stuff, its so realistic. I have thought about all that mapper stuff and I think im begining to have some interest in it. but the problem is, I know nothing, zero and zippo about mapping, so I ask, what can I do?
wow, I think some of those very detailed textures could fit well in a number of scenarios, espeacially the rock texture. I'd use it in a cave/tunnel system type map. Which reminds me, you still havn't told us where your textures come from (or i missed it).
Well, Of course i hope to finish it in time .. but at the moment i am quite busy. I have to create a Programm that uses the gaussian algorithm to solve linear eqations for my math finals ... Sounds complicated ? Especially if you don't know how this matrix thing works in VB. B@tman ( mapper of de_volare ) told me he might join my project.
The rocks are not that detailed ... it's the texture <img src="http://www.simsalabim.bluestream.de/images/ns_jungle/rockswc.jpg" border="0">
Sorry I haven't been watching this thread too closely. The screenshots look quite nice, but for some reason I can't get your movie to work through Windows Media Player nor through The Playa (after renaming to .divx). Stupid .avi codecs.
I'm sure it looks great in-game, but I still don't think this will work for NS. Enough people have expressed interest in doing small outdoor areas, and my response is still the same: NS isn't about the outdoors, and I don't want them in NS maps. There will likely be code change to support outdoor areas, not to mention design issues (like fliers, wall-climbers, justifying commander mode, etc.). That said, I'm not going to outright say that any map with an outdoor map won't be accepted. Hera currently has a killer outdoor area (though it's definitely easier to accept this then a grassy forested area).
The bottom line is this: I don't want maps that concentrate on the outdoors, and I may very well request that outdoor areas be removed or changed for a map to become official. That's the current stance, and it won't change anytime soon. So, if you really really want to do this, it's got to be pretty beautiful...
Just don't complain when if I ask you to delete all that work to get official status! :)
Once I had that installed, it all ran perfectly. And you'll see in the movie (get the max quality avi) that the 'outdoors' area is actually indoors. Like a greenhouse. Nifty effect...
Aaaaw, no outdoor areas AT ALL ;*( Outdoor areas make such a thrill... I mean if you can see the sky, it's dark, you can barely see you're own hand, you can hear the wind and you have a small chill up you're spine... then you hear some noices coming from inside, there is only one door, and behind it you can hear terrible noises of teammates getting tared to peaces... you have no choice, no choice but to fight the faresome monster, TO DEATH! MUHAHAHA! ok, now i'm just hyperactive....
KungFuSquirrelBasher of MuttonsJoin Date: 2002-01-26Member: 103Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Am I the ONLY one who finds the rock texture out of place in this environment?
Something about it still doesn't seem quite right to me; I think it's too much reliance on texture detail over brush detail... The shadows on the texture and the detail that is on the texture still seems like a more distant surface than it actually is, IMHO.
realityisdeadEmployed by Raven Software after making ns_nothingJoin Date: 2002-01-26Member: 94Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Banan, you can get experiences just like that in an indoors area as well. Can anyone say Unreal?
You can get yoru beautiful outdoors areas in UP. NS is focusing on the indoors. That's how it's always been. There is no sudden anti-outdoors movement.
It looks like Sim's map is mostly going to be indoors, and I think it will work out fine.
Now lets just see those indoors areas... I can't argue that most of the outdoors stuff being presented for NS looks really great, but it's not what is going to be judged for inclusion in the official release.
Keep at it Sim, I'm looking forward to seeing what you are going to do with the indoors bit. If you have to take out your greenhouse thing here, it shouldn't be that big of a deal, considering that the map is going to have to consist of at least 98% indoors stuff. (Just a wild guess, not an official rule or anything.)
In other words, I would make sure that your indoors areas are really great, and not rely on this jungle bit to float your map... Just in case you have to take it out.
Comments
Thanx for all the positive response!
Of course the plants ( trees, grass etc ) are just 2d images, but thats the way it is done in every game.
As far as i know, the HL engine does not support any vertex- / pixelshader <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo--> so there is no other way to create such things.
And again people do not worry about the indoor areas.
I am sure, that 90% of the map will be indoors !!!
I thinks this little "garden-section" adds to some kind of realism.... I mean come on . Who in the name of god would create a labyrinth (?!?) of hallways and useless rooms?
I don't think people in the future want to live in some kind of a high-tech sewer...
btw. r_speeds are at around 500 ... I guess i'll have to take away some grass to reduce it in the final map :o).
I'm really looking forward to this map.
I just hope that Flayra just was in a hurry and didn't read that this was the map was mainly indoor...
One thing you could to would be to make it in spacestation with a greenhouse looking out at space, and lots of artificial lighting to keep the plants alive. That could be atmospheric, especially if it was made dark with strong spotlights.
IFA, I'm not sure what free site hosting companies allow for image sharing or hosting. I'm pretty sure someone pointed one out recently though... can't remember.
Anyways, for keeping lvl 3 fliers and jetpacks out of the sky you can use a few func_push or trigger_push wahtever it is, and have them point down (maybe?) and get increasingly stronger, instead of a simple clip brush which would be pretty lame to anyone who hits their head on the invisible ceiling <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
This way you can have a few outdoor areas where combat is entirely possible and Flayra could possibly accept it if the rest of the map is up to snuff.
Because I will not spend my time on mapping just to hear "that does not fit NS" in the end...
However, you are more than welcome to take your outdoor areas, and stick them in greenhouses and/or indoor parks inside of a building, which would -totally- fit with the theme of NS. A space station/ship/craft/base would need something in it like that.
You will see, that this area is small, and if you run it takes you about 3 seconds to pass it. ( on video i am crouching). After this small section you will be right back in the dark hallways!.
Well check it out.
<a href="http://www.simsalabim.bluestream.de/files/nsjunglelow.avi" target="_blank">low quality (500 Kb)</a>
<a href="http://www.simsalabim.bluestream.de/files/nsjunglemed.avi" target="_blank">medium quality (750 Kb)</a>
<a href="http://www.simsalabim.bluestream.de/files/nsjunglemax.avi" target="_blank">maximum quality (3.4 MB)</a>
btw. video is in DivX 5.0 format
get it at <a href="http://www.divx.com" target="_blank">www.DivX.com</a>
can you finish your map before final release you think?
That, and it's GORGEOUS!
<!--EDIT|Moleculor|Mar. 26 2002,10:54-->
Yes I will add glass :-) also there will be a different skymap. Also i think i might have to go donw with the grass :-/. R_speeds are no Problem... The big Problem is the limit of maximum entety brushes....
I did a test with 15 trees and lots of grass....
Well i was able to do 5 trees and floor full of grass (7) within the entety brush limit...
( this scene is 3 trees, 4 grass ).
so i might come close to the limtit while creating more parts of the map...
But i am confident, that i can fit the whole scene!
I have thought about all that mapper stuff and I think im begining to have some interest in it. but the problem is, I know nothing, zero and zippo about mapping, so I ask, what can I do?
Of course i hope to finish it in time .. but at the moment i am quite busy. I have to create a Programm that uses the gaussian algorithm to solve linear eqations for my math finals ... Sounds complicated ? Especially if you don't know how this matrix thing works in VB.
B@tman ( mapper of de_volare ) told me he might join my project.
The rocks are not that detailed ... it's the texture
<img src="http://www.simsalabim.bluestream.de/images/ns_jungle/rockswc.jpg" border="0">
I'm sure it looks great in-game, but I still don't think this will work for NS. Enough people have expressed interest in doing small outdoor areas, and my response is still the same: NS isn't about the outdoors, and I don't want them in NS maps. There will likely be code change to support outdoor areas, not to mention design issues (like fliers, wall-climbers, justifying commander mode, etc.). That said, I'm not going to outright say that any map with an outdoor map won't be accepted. Hera currently has a killer outdoor area (though it's definitely easier to accept this then a grassy forested area).
The bottom line is this: I don't want maps that concentrate on the outdoors, and I may very well request that outdoor areas be removed or changed for a map to become official. That's the current stance, and it won't change anytime soon. So, if you really really want to do this, it's got to be pretty beautiful...
Just don't complain when if I ask you to delete all that work to get official status! :)
-Charlie
<a href="http://www.divx.com/divx/" target="_blank">here</a>.
Once I had that installed, it all ran perfectly. And you'll see in the movie (get the max quality avi) that the 'outdoors' area is actually indoors. Like a greenhouse. Nifty effect...
Outdoor areas make such a thrill... I mean if you can see the sky, it's dark, you can barely see you're own hand, you can hear the wind and you have a small chill up you're spine...
then you hear some noices coming from inside, there is only one door, and behind it you can hear terrible noises of teammates getting tared to peaces... you have no choice, no choice but to fight the faresome monster, TO DEATH! MUHAHAHA!
ok, now i'm just hyperactive....
Something about it still doesn't seem quite right to me; I think it's too much reliance on texture detail over brush detail... The shadows on the texture and the detail that is on the texture still seems like a more distant surface than it actually is, IMHO.
You can get yoru beautiful outdoors areas in UP. NS is focusing on the indoors. That's how it's always been. There is no sudden anti-outdoors movement.
It looks like Sim's map is mostly going to be indoors, and I think it will work out fine.
Now lets just see those indoors areas... I can't argue that most of the outdoors stuff being presented for NS looks really great, but it's not what is going to be judged for inclusion in the official release.
Keep at it Sim, I'm looking forward to seeing what you are going to do with the indoors bit. If you have to take out your greenhouse thing here, it shouldn't be that big of a deal, considering that the map is going to have to consist of at least 98% indoors stuff. (Just a wild guess, not an official rule or anything.)
In other words, I would make sure that your indoors areas are really great, and not rely on this jungle bit to float your map... Just in case you have to take it out.
<!--EDIT|ken20banks|Mar. 27 2002,18:05-->