<!--QuoteBegin-Gerald R Ford+Jul 3 2005, 09:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gerald R Ford @ Jul 3 2005, 09:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you're catholic, it wont matter cause all you gotta do is say "i'm sorry" and poof! forgiven! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> actions speak louder than words my friend.
and i read acts 1:16-18, it doesn't give an accurate proof that judas went to hell. only told what happened to his body.
<!--QuoteBegin-NightfireTG+Jul 3 2005, 10:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NightfireTG @ Jul 3 2005, 10:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Gerald R Ford+Jul 3 2005, 09:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gerald R Ford @ Jul 3 2005, 09:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you're catholic, it wont matter cause all you gotta do is say "i'm sorry" and poof! forgiven! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> actions speak louder than words my friend.
and i read acts 1:16-18, it doesn't give an accurate proof that judas went to hell. only told what happened to his body. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> We don't know where Judas went. The Bible never outright says it but read this passage:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It had been good for that man if he had not been born. - Matthew 26:24.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This seems to suggest that Judas went to Hell. But who knows besides God?
Alrighty, one reply for today as I am sure lots of people are quite busy.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cxwf+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cxwf)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Really? You've got to show me that one. I never heard that before. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Its sitting right there in matthew 27... DarkAti likes to pick selected quotes before they tell of what happened to Judas, not to mention the contradiction with his death in two different parts of the bible.
<!--QuoteBegin-Bible Matthew 27: (NSAB)+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bible Matthew 27: (NSAB))</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 1(A)Now when morning came, all the chief priests and the elders of the people conferred together against Jesus to put Him to death;
3Then when (D)Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw that He had been condemned, he felt remorse and returned (E)the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
4saying, "I have sinned by betraying innocent blood." But they said, "What is that to us? (F)See to that yourself!" <b> 5And he threw the pieces of silver into (G)the temple sanctuary and departed; and (H)he went away and hanged himself. </b> 6The chief priests took the pieces of silver and said, "It is not lawful to put them into the temple treasury, since it is the price of blood."
7And they conferred together and with the money bought the Potter's Field as a burial place for strangers.
8(I)For this reason that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day. <b> 9Then that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "(J)AND THEY TOOK THE THIRTY PIECES OF SILVER, THE PRICE OF THE ONE WHOSE PRICE HAD BEEN SET by the sons of Israel; </b> 10(K)AND THEY GAVE THEM FOR THE POTTER'S FIELD, AS THE LORD DIRECTED ME." <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Quick read of the passage shows, Judas had to kill himself for that was the price that was set for his betrayal of Jesus. Bolded so it is easier to see.
@Tal: I'm not even sure of the relevance. Anyway.
@Gerald R Ford: Apparently you don't know how Catholism works very well. They are the ones that state they will probably not go to heaven because they are all inherently evil. I've only ever heard that line from the Protesant part of the faith.
@Nightfire: That they do, and the bible is quite full of references of where you must have acts to go with the words.
@DarkAti: Read the above, and thusly his price was set before he was born, and it was known what he would do, one could easily assume since he had paid his price he went to heaven. (God playing with humans as toys, just a bit.)
<!--QuoteBegin-Tal+Jul 3 2005, 10:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tal @ Jul 3 2005, 10:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> my dog commited suiced when he ran into a bus, he went to hevan <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Thanks for injecting some humor into this thread. Sorry your puppy's gone though .... ... .. . <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Cyndane+Jul 4 2005, 07:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cyndane @ Jul 4 2005, 07:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Its sitting right there in matthew 27... DarkAti likes to pick selected quotes before they tell of what happened to Judas, not to mention the contradiction with his death in two different parts of the bible.
<!--QuoteBegin-Bible Matthew 27: (NSAB)+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bible Matthew 27: (NSAB))</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 1(A)Now when morning came, all the chief priests and the elders of the people conferred together against Jesus to put Him to death;
3Then when (D)Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw that He had been condemned, he felt remorse and returned (E)the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
4saying, "I have sinned by betraying innocent blood." But they said, "What is that to us? (F)See to that yourself!" <b> 5And he threw the pieces of silver into (G)the temple sanctuary and departed; and (H)he went away and hanged himself. </b> 6The chief priests took the pieces of silver and said, "It is not lawful to put them into the temple treasury, since it is the price of blood."
7And they conferred together and with the money bought the Potter's Field as a burial place for strangers.
8(I)For this reason that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day. <b> 9Then that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "(J)AND THEY TOOK THE THIRTY PIECES OF SILVER, THE PRICE OF THE ONE WHOSE PRICE HAD BEEN SET by the sons of Israel; </b> 10(K)AND THEY GAVE THEM FOR THE POTTER'S FIELD, AS THE LORD DIRECTED ME." <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Quick read of the passage shows, Judas had to kill himself for that was the price that was set for his betrayal of Jesus. Bolded so it is easier to see. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Um--that passage clearly refers to "the price" being the 30 pieces of silver, and "the one whose price had been set" being Jesus, since they paid the silver for Jesus' betrayal. I don't know how you twist that into saying that Judas was forgiven by hanging himself.
Now, I don't think it explicitly states that Judas wasn't forgiven either--but I'd have to say the odds are against him.
I shall focus soley upon that last line, as that is where you are having troubles.
<!--QuoteBegin-Bible Matthew 27:9+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bible Matthew 27:9)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 9Then that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> First sentence is quite simple and needs no explanation.
<!--QuoteBegin-Bible Matthew 27:9+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bible Matthew 27:9)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> "(J)AND THEY TOOK THE THIRTY PIECES OF SILVER, THE PRICE OF THE ONE <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Quite clearly and yet again, the thrity pieces of silver was the price of betrayal for "the one" obviously this would be jesus.
<!--QuoteBegin-Bible Matthew 27:9+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bible Matthew 27:9)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> WHOSE PRICE HAD BEEN SET by the sons of Israel; <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Here they are referring the whose to judas and his price had been set (Prophesied if you will) by the other sons if Israel.
Really quite simple, when you look at it, as it was written down.
So.. if we are to complete the sentence with how they are implying each person.
<!--QuoteBegin-Bible Matthew 27:9+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bible Matthew 27:9)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <i> Apologetic notes in paraenthesis </i>
9 Then that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "(J)AND THEY(Pharisses) TOOK THE THIRTY PIECES OF SILVER, THE PRICE(Silver) OF THE ONE(jesus) WHOSE(Betrayer) PRICE(Suicidial death) HAD BEEN SET(Prophesied) by the sons of Israel; <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't say he was forgiven but it was deemed an acceptable punishment for his betrayal.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cyndane+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cyndane)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Quick read of the passage shows, Judas had to kill himself for that was the price that was set for his betrayal of Jesus.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You seem to be tripping up on the English in that sentence. I don't know what it looks like in Greek, but in English you've clearly got a mistake there.
"Whose" is a possessive word. When it says, "the one whose price had been set", that means, "the one, where the price of <i>that one</i> had been set". So this "price" must refer to the same "one" as the first half of the sentence, "the price of the one". So since we agree that "the price of the one" refers to the thirty silver as the price for jesus, therefore "the price of the one whose price had been set" is <i>still</i> referring to the thirty silver as the price for jesus--there is no second price being introduced here.
That makes it this:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->9 Then that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "(J)AND THEY(Pharisses) TOOK THE THIRTY PIECES OF SILVER, THE PRICE(Silver) OF THE ONE(jesus) WHOSE(grammatical connector) PRICE(still silver) HAD BEEN SET(arranged as the value of the bribe) by the sons of Israel(still Pharisses);<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Cxwf+Jul 4 2005, 05:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cxwf @ Jul 4 2005, 05:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You seem to be tripping up on the English in that sentence. I don't know what it looks like in Greek, but in English you've clearly got a mistake there.
"Whose" is a possessive word. When it says, "the one whose price had been set", that means, "the one, where the price of <i>that one</i> had been set". So this "price" must refer to the same "one" as the first half of the sentence, "the price of the one". So since we agree that "the price of the one" refers to the thirty silver as the price for jesus, therefore "the price of the one whose price had been set" is <i>still</i> referring to the thirty silver as the price for jesus--there is no second price being introduced here.
That makes it this:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->9 Then that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "(J)AND THEY(Pharisses) TOOK THE THIRTY PIECES OF SILVER, THE PRICE(Silver) OF THE ONE(jesus) WHOSE(grammatical connector) PRICE(still silver) HAD BEEN SET(arranged as the value of the bribe) by the sons of Israel(still Pharisses);<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Very good interpretation Cxwf, and I agree with it.
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>*the self-proclaimed grammar queen stumbles yet another time ...*</span>
9 Then that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "(J)AND THEY(Pharisses) TOOK THE THIRTY PIECES OF SILVER, THE PRICE(Silver) OF THE ONE(jesus) WHOSE(Betrayer) PRICE(Suicidial death) HAD BEEN SET(Prophesied) by the sons of Israel; <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't say he was forgiven but it was deemed an acceptable punishment for his betrayal. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Can't find anything else that would support that interpretation, and most other translations make it impossible. The English would usually parse the way NIV puts it: "They took the thirty silver coins, the price set on him by the people of Israel, and they used them to buy the potter's field, as the Lord commanded me."
We're back in Jerusalem at this point and Jeremiah was previously involved with land purchases in Anathoth (Jer 32:6; Anathoth is just a few miles NE), but AFAIK never said anything tied to Judas.
While I'm in here, do we have a canoical definition for "what was promised' in Hebrews 11:33?
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>I begin to see why you've snapped at Depot periodically. <edit>I suppose I could add a troll if Depot feels let down, though understated observation is more comfortable for me.</edit></span>
<!--QuoteBegin-Tal+Jul 3 2005, 09:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tal @ Jul 3 2005, 09:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> my dog commited suiced when he ran into a bus, he went to hevan <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Very true
I may have an error, since I haven't even looked at the orginal greek passage as of yet. (Can't say I've ever tried to translate the entire bible, just passages that didn't make sense to me and this one I never even thought about twice.)
This is how the <a href='http://www.greekbible.com' target='_blank'>Greek Bible</a> shows in on their site, problem is this is modern greek, not the one used in the NT(originally).
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1--> Matthew 27:9
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1--> ποιανοί <!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2--> I've been looking at that code for the past half an hour, and I still can't find it... perhaps you would have more luck.
I shall do a transliteration when I have more time... I am becoming as bad as legion when it comes to replying to topics.
Unless you can find someone who has done one already? I didn't do a complete search, but then it is 11 pm and I must work quite early tomorrow.
I was going to address hole.. but then he ignored the point that this thread presupposes that there is a heaven of some form.
@minsk: I snap at depot because he consistently shows ignorance even when proven completely wrong. Which is quite evident with his posts. Only reason he agreed with cxwf is because it wasn't my interpetation, no other, just as always.
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'> Not to mention he claimed to be a spelling nazi yet can't spell a simple word such as opinion. Oh yes, and the use of acronymns whilst in a discussion forum where some lack of english skills can be forgiven, but he isn't from a different country as some of us are. </span>
<!--QuoteBegin-Cyndane+Jul 5 2005, 12:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cyndane @ Jul 5 2005, 12:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->@minsk: I snap at depot because he consistently shows ignorance even when proven completely wrong. Which is quite evident with his posts. Only reason he agreed with cxwf is because it wasn't my interpetation, no other, just as always.
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'> Not to mention he claimed to be a spelling nazi yet can't spell a simple word such as opinion. Oh yes, and the use of acronymns whilst in a discussion forum where some lack of english skills can be forgiven, but he isn't from a different country as some of us are. </span><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It appears the prior warning/s you received have done little to curb your personally attacking tongue. And try, HARD, to stay on topic, AGAIN, please. Tsk tsk...
Cxwf made a gramatically correct interpretation of scripture that rendered your explanation incorrect. For this he is to be commended.
As usual, I must start with something off topic because there are certain people who refuse to live and let live. [off topic] <!--QuoteBegin-Depot+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It appears the prior warning/s you received have done little to curb your personally attacking tongue. And try, HARD, to stay on topic, AGAIN, please. Tsk tsk... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I do not like being told things when you are not a moderator depot and not to mention are you guilty of the same infractions. [/off topic]
I was exceptionally bored at work today, and since we are slow I took the time to create a very rough transliteration of the follow verse Matthew 27:9. One of my last days at RS I might as well accomplish something while I am here besides looking pretty.
Alrighty, now on to the fun translation portions. I shall do my best to explain how this works, as this is a very rough estimatation of how that verse translates in to english. Keep in mind, when one does transliteration, there <b> are no grammar rules followed </b> as it is as exact of a word for word translation as one can get. I shall run down the list of possible meanings then I shall construct the final verse at the end of this post, so it will be quite long and if you wish to jump to the conclusion, feel free to do so as it is at the bottom of this post.
Words are in quotes to make it easier to read each possible definition. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> tote: Then/At that time <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This one is quite simple and doesn't need much of an explanation.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> eplhrwqh: Make full, complete render, complete, accomplish, duty, promise(s), or fill to top. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This one is a bit harder, but I would lean more towards promise if one is doing a direct translation. Explanation will follow with complete sentence below.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> to: the; this, that, these <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Another simple one.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> rehqen: To say/speak, affirm, to teach, to exhort, intend/mean to say, call by name, speak out. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> dia: Through; of place within, throughout, during, by reason, on account, therefore <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ieremiou: Son of hikiah that were priests in Anathoth. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, it is a person, he was the prophet that spoke said prophecy, in this text.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> profhtou: A poet, or prophet <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> In greek poets were thought to speak with divine inspiration.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> legontoV: To say/speak, affirm, maintain, teach, call out by name. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> elabon: take away, recieve back, recieved what is offered, to take with hand <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Again, fairly simple and straight forward.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> arguria: silver, money, silver coins <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Should have been able to guess this one if you know the verse.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> thn: the, this, that, these <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Interesting note, all of these words that appear to be meaning the same are said with different masculinity, example the first one was neutral, the second was male and this one is also male. If anyone knows spanish they know what I am referring to. Chicos (boys) Chicas(girls, and boys and girls).
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> tou: the, this, that, these <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This one is singular and again male verb tense.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> tetimhmenou: Estimate, fix the value of <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> on: who, which, what, that <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> etimhsanto: estimate, fix the value, value of ones self, the honour <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> apo: of speration, origin of a cause, befalls <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> uiwn : A son, offspring, sons of abraham, Son of Man <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This one has some fun notes with it. Offspring, some would say you can use it for animals, but in greek writings rarely was this word used for animal babies. The last one, which I'm sure most are familar with has to do with jesus' title in some christian sects, I wouldn't put much faith in that one because there are many examples in the new testament where he is called something other then "Son of Man".
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> israhl: This one, I have no idea what it means, as I can not find it in any other verse in the bible other then this one(So far). Since it is unique in that reguard, I will leave it undefined, I shall try a library search when I have more time and should be able to update as needed. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now for the complete verse with minor grammatical clarifications. (Very minor)
<i> <b> Disclaimer: </b> This is my own translation make of it what you will but in <b> NO </b> way shape and/or form is this grammatically correct english </i>
In quotes to make it easier to read as I like to do. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Then to complete this promise, through ieremiav the poet says then to fulfill and take back these thirty silver coins that price was paid for his value which estimated for the seperation from the sons of abraham <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Now I know some of you are like, what?
This means that I was wrong, yes, I was wrong. As I orginally thought (after cxwf's post) I had incorrectly labeled the whose as something else in my head.
So, that verse has nothing to do with whether or not judas was forgiven, all it deals with is the thirty pieces of silver that was the price for the betrayal.
So, what have we learned?
Summary <ul><li>Cyndane can be wrong.</li><li>She admits it when she is.</li><li>The verse isn't quite as complete when transliterated.</li><li>The verse has nothing to do with judas' price for betrayal.</li><li>The verse doesn't say whether or not he was forgiven.</li><li>Nor does it state whether or not he went to heaven.</li></ul>The bible's stance on suicide is still very much neutral. (Unless it involves killing its(christianities) enemies)
*Edited* Had to fix a sentence or two.. and might still be a few spelling errors. Kudos for those who can point them out for me, as I have been working on this since this morning.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cyndane+Jul 5 2005, 05:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cyndane @ Jul 5 2005, 05:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So, what have we learned?
Summary <ul>
</li><li>Cyndane can be wrong.
</li></ul> The bible's stance on suicide is still very much neutral. (Unless it involves killing its(christianities) enemies)
*Edited* Had to fix a sentence or two.. and might still be a few spelling errors. Kudos for those who can point them out for me, as I have been working on this since this morning.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<i>Sorry Cyndane, don't lower me to your level of personal attacks and condescending nature. I simply pointed out one fact, a fact that altered subsequent discussion in this thread. A huge gramattical error it was. And although I am quite good at spelling and will point significant errors out, you've never caught me self proclaiming myself.</i>
I will agree with what's listed, and I will also agree that there's no difinitive answer to the question I asked when this thread was created.
<span style='color:white'>That being said, Sirus may as well lock this tread, as any further discussion would be pointless.</span>
Comments
actions speak louder than words my friend.
and i read acts 1:16-18, it doesn't give an accurate proof that judas went to hell. only told what happened to his body.
actions speak louder than words my friend.
and i read acts 1:16-18, it doesn't give an accurate proof that judas went to hell. only told what happened to his body. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
We don't know where Judas went. The Bible never outright says it but read this passage:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It had been good for that man if he had not been born. - Matthew 26:24.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This seems to suggest that Judas went to Hell. But who knows besides God?
~ DarkATi
<!--QuoteBegin-Cxwf+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cxwf)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Really? You've got to show me that one. I never heard that before.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its sitting right there in matthew 27... DarkAti likes to pick selected quotes before they tell of what happened to Judas, not to mention the contradiction with his death in two different parts of the bible.
<!--QuoteBegin-Bible Matthew 27: (NSAB)+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bible Matthew 27: (NSAB))</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
1(A)Now when morning came, all the chief priests and the elders of the people conferred together against Jesus to put Him to death;
2and they bound Him, and led Him away and (B)delivered Him to ©Pilate the governor.
3Then when (D)Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw that He had been condemned, he felt remorse and returned (E)the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
4saying, "I have sinned by betraying innocent blood." But they said, "What is that to us? (F)See to that yourself!"
<b>
5And he threw the pieces of silver into (G)the temple sanctuary and departed; and (H)he went away and hanged himself.
</b>
6The chief priests took the pieces of silver and said, "It is not lawful to put them into the temple treasury, since it is the price of blood."
7And they conferred together and with the money bought the Potter's Field as a burial place for strangers.
8(I)For this reason that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day.
<b>
9Then that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "(J)AND THEY TOOK THE THIRTY PIECES OF SILVER, THE PRICE OF THE ONE WHOSE PRICE HAD BEEN SET by the sons of Israel;
</b>
10(K)AND THEY GAVE THEM FOR THE POTTER'S FIELD, AS THE LORD DIRECTED ME."
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quick read of the passage shows, Judas had to kill himself for that was the price that was set for his betrayal of Jesus. Bolded so it is easier to see.
@Tal: I'm not even sure of the relevance. Anyway.
@Gerald R Ford: Apparently you don't know how Catholism works very well. They are the ones that state they will probably not go to heaven because they are all inherently evil. I've only ever heard that line from the Protesant part of the faith.
@Nightfire: That they do, and the bible is quite full of references of where you must have acts to go with the words.
@DarkAti: Read the above, and thusly his price was set before he was born, and it was known what he would do, one could easily assume since he had paid his price he went to heaven. (God playing with humans as toys, just a bit.)
Thanks for injecting some humor into this thread. Sorry your puppy's gone though .... ... .. . <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Bible Matthew 27: (NSAB)+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bible Matthew 27: (NSAB))</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
1(A)Now when morning came, all the chief priests and the elders of the people conferred together against Jesus to put Him to death;
2and they bound Him, and led Him away and (B)delivered Him to ©Pilate the governor.
3Then when (D)Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw that He had been condemned, he felt remorse and returned (E)the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
4saying, "I have sinned by betraying innocent blood." But they said, "What is that to us? (F)See to that yourself!"
<b>
5And he threw the pieces of silver into (G)the temple sanctuary and departed; and (H)he went away and hanged himself.
</b>
6The chief priests took the pieces of silver and said, "It is not lawful to put them into the temple treasury, since it is the price of blood."
7And they conferred together and with the money bought the Potter's Field as a burial place for strangers.
8(I)For this reason that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day.
<b>
9Then that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "(J)AND THEY TOOK THE THIRTY PIECES OF SILVER, THE PRICE OF THE ONE WHOSE PRICE HAD BEEN SET by the sons of Israel;
</b>
10(K)AND THEY GAVE THEM FOR THE POTTER'S FIELD, AS THE LORD DIRECTED ME."
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quick read of the passage shows, Judas had to kill himself for that was the price that was set for his betrayal of Jesus. Bolded so it is easier to see. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um--that passage clearly refers to "the price" being the 30 pieces of silver, and "the one whose price had been set" being Jesus, since they paid the silver for Jesus' betrayal. I don't know how you twist that into saying that Judas was forgiven by hanging himself.
Now, I don't think it explicitly states that Judas wasn't forgiven either--but I'd have to say the odds are against him.
I shall focus soley upon that last line, as that is where you are having troubles.
<!--QuoteBegin-Bible Matthew 27:9+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bible Matthew 27:9)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
9Then that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled:
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First sentence is quite simple and needs no explanation.
<!--QuoteBegin-Bible Matthew 27:9+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bible Matthew 27:9)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
"(J)AND THEY TOOK THE THIRTY PIECES OF SILVER, THE PRICE OF THE ONE
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quite clearly and yet again, the thrity pieces of silver was the price of betrayal for "the one" obviously this would be jesus.
<!--QuoteBegin-Bible Matthew 27:9+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bible Matthew 27:9)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
WHOSE PRICE HAD BEEN SET by the sons of Israel;
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here they are referring the whose to judas and his price had been set (Prophesied if you will) by the other sons if Israel.
Really quite simple, when you look at it, as it was written down.
So.. if we are to complete the sentence with how they are implying each person.
<!--QuoteBegin-Bible Matthew 27:9+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bible Matthew 27:9)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <i> Apologetic notes in paraenthesis </i>
9 Then that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "(J)AND THEY(Pharisses) TOOK THE THIRTY PIECES OF SILVER, THE PRICE(Silver) OF THE ONE(jesus) WHOSE(Betrayer) PRICE(Suicidial death) HAD BEEN SET(Prophesied) by the sons of Israel;
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't say he was forgiven but it was deemed an acceptable punishment for his betrayal.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cyndane+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cyndane)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Quick read of the passage shows, Judas had to kill himself for that was the price that was set for his betrayal of Jesus.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[off topic]
<i> Hi Skynub </i>
[/off topic]
"Whose" is a possessive word. When it says, "the one whose price had been set", that means, "the one, where the price of <i>that one</i> had been set". So this "price" must refer to the same "one" as the first half of the sentence, "the price of the one". So since we agree that "the price of the one" refers to the thirty silver as the price for jesus, therefore "the price of the one whose price had been set" is <i>still</i> referring to the thirty silver as the price for jesus--there is no second price being introduced here.
That makes it this:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->9 Then that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "(J)AND THEY(Pharisses) TOOK THE THIRTY PIECES OF SILVER, THE PRICE(Silver) OF THE ONE(jesus) WHOSE(grammatical connector) PRICE(still silver) HAD BEEN SET(arranged as the value of the bribe) by the sons of Israel(still Pharisses);<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"Whose" is a possessive word. When it says, "the one whose price had been set", that means, "the one, where the price of <i>that one</i> had been set". So this "price" must refer to the same "one" as the first half of the sentence, "the price of the one". So since we agree that "the price of the one" refers to the thirty silver as the price for jesus, therefore "the price of the one whose price had been set" is <i>still</i> referring to the thirty silver as the price for jesus--there is no second price being introduced here.
That makes it this:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->9 Then that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "(J)AND THEY(Pharisses) TOOK THE THIRTY PIECES OF SILVER, THE PRICE(Silver) OF THE ONE(jesus) WHOSE(grammatical connector) PRICE(still silver) HAD BEEN SET(arranged as the value of the bribe) by the sons of Israel(still Pharisses);<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very good interpretation Cxwf, and I agree with it.
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>*the self-proclaimed grammar queen stumbles yet another time ...*</span>
You die and you are reborn.
Or, consider your body a machine. Electricity, no soul. You die; therefore you are dead. Nothing.
9 Then that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "(J)AND THEY(Pharisses) TOOK THE THIRTY PIECES OF SILVER, THE PRICE(Silver) OF THE ONE(jesus) WHOSE(Betrayer) PRICE(Suicidial death) HAD BEEN SET(Prophesied) by the sons of Israel;
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't say he was forgiven but it was deemed an acceptable punishment for his betrayal.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can't find anything else that would support that interpretation, and most other translations make it impossible. The English would usually parse the way NIV puts it: "They took the thirty silver coins, the price set on him by the people of Israel, and they used them to buy the potter's field, as the Lord commanded me."
We're back in Jerusalem at this point and Jeremiah was previously involved with land purchases in Anathoth (Jer 32:6; Anathoth is just a few miles NE), but AFAIK never said anything tied to Judas.
While I'm in here, do we have a canoical definition for "what was promised' in Hebrews 11:33?
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>I begin to see why you've snapped at Depot periodically. <edit>I suppose I could add a troll if Depot feels let down, though understated observation is more comfortable for me.</edit></span>
OMG PLEASE don't feed the troll! <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> I speak nothing but the truth.
Very true
This is how the <a href='http://www.greekbible.com' target='_blank'>Greek Bible</a> shows in on their site, problem is this is modern greek, not the one used in the NT(originally).
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->
Matthew 27:9
τότε ἐπληρώθη τὸ ῥηθὲν διὰ Ἰερεμίου τοῦ προφήτου λέγοντος, Καὶ ἔλαβον τὰ τριάκοντα ἀργύρια, τὴν τιμὴν τοῦ τετιμημένου ὃν ἐτιμήσαντο ἀπὸ υἱῶν Ἰσραήλ,
<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
This is "whose" in greek(modern).
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->
ποιανοί
<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
I've been looking at that code for the past half an hour, and I still can't find it... perhaps you would have more luck.
I shall do a transliteration when I have more time... I am becoming as bad as legion when it comes to replying to topics.
Unless you can find someone who has done one already? I didn't do a complete search, but then it is 11 pm and I must work quite early tomorrow.
I was going to address hole.. but then he ignored the point that this thread presupposes that there is a heaven of some form.
@minsk: I snap at depot because he consistently shows ignorance even when proven completely wrong. Which is quite evident with his posts. Only reason he agreed with cxwf is because it wasn't my interpetation, no other, just as always.
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'> Not to mention he claimed to be a spelling nazi yet can't spell a simple word such as opinion. Oh yes, and the use of acronymns whilst in a discussion forum where some lack of english skills can be forgiven, but he isn't from a different country as some of us are. </span>
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'> Not to mention he claimed to be a spelling nazi yet can't spell a simple word such as opinion. Oh yes, and the use of acronymns whilst in a discussion forum where some lack of english skills can be forgiven, but he isn't from a different country as some of us are. </span><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It appears the prior warning/s you received have done little to curb your personally attacking tongue. And try, HARD, to stay on topic, AGAIN, please. Tsk tsk...
Cxwf made a gramatically correct interpretation of scripture that rendered your explanation incorrect. For this he is to be commended.
********************************************************************
Please continue with the discussion all .... ... .. .
[off topic]
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
It appears the prior warning/s you received have done little to curb your personally attacking tongue. And try, HARD, to stay on topic, AGAIN, please. Tsk tsk...
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I do not like being told things when you are not a moderator depot and not to mention are you guilty of the same infractions.
[/off topic]
I was exceptionally bored at work today, and since we are slow I took the time to create a very rough transliteration of the follow verse Matthew 27:9. One of my last days at RS I might as well accomplish something while I am here besides looking pretty.
Alrighty, now on to the fun translation portions. I shall do my best to explain how this works, as this is a very rough estimatation of how that verse translates in to english. Keep in mind, when one does transliteration, there <b> are no grammar rules followed </b> as it is as exact of a word for word translation as one can get. I shall run down the list of possible meanings then I shall construct the final verse at the end of this post, so it will be quite long and if you wish to jump to the conclusion, feel free to do so as it is at the bottom of this post.
Words are in quotes to make it easier to read each possible definition.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
tote: Then/At that time
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This one is quite simple and doesn't need much of an explanation.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
eplhrwqh: Make full, complete render, complete, accomplish, duty, promise(s), or fill to top.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This one is a bit harder, but I would lean more towards promise if one is doing a direct translation. Explanation will follow with complete sentence below.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
to: the; this, that, these
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Another simple one.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
rehqen: To say/speak, affirm, to teach, to exhort, intend/mean to say, call by name, speak out.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
dia: Through; of place within, throughout, during, by reason, on account, therefore
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
ieremiou: Son of hikiah that were priests in Anathoth.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, it is a person, he was the prophet that spoke said prophecy, in this text.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
tou: The, this, these.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
profhtou: A poet, or prophet
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In greek poets were thought to speak with divine inspiration.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
legontoV: To say/speak, affirm, maintain, teach, call out by name.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
kai : and, also, indeed
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pretty self explanitory.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
elabon: take away, recieve back, recieved what is offered, to take with hand
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, fairly simple and straight forward.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
ta:the, this, that, these
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
triakonta: thirty
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Greek number.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
arguria: silver, money, silver coins
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Should have been able to guess this one if you know the verse.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
thn: the, this, that, these
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting note, all of these words that appear to be meaning the same are said with different masculinity, example the first one was neutral, the second was male and this one is also male. If anyone knows spanish they know what I am referring to. Chicos (boys) Chicas(girls, and boys and girls).
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
timhn: price paid
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
tou: the, this, that, these
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This one is singular and again male verb tense.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
tetimhmenou: Estimate, fix the value of
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
on: who, which, what, that
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
etimhsanto: estimate, fix the value, value of ones self, the honour
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
apo: of speration, origin of a cause, befalls
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
uiwn : A son, offspring, sons of abraham, Son of Man
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This one has some fun notes with it. Offspring, some would say you can use it for animals, but in greek writings rarely was this word used for animal babies. The last one, which I'm sure most are familar with has to do with jesus' title in some christian sects, I wouldn't put much faith in that one because there are many examples in the new testament where he is called something other then "Son of Man".
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
israhl: This one, I have no idea what it means, as I can not find it in any other verse in the bible other then this one(So far). Since it is unique in that reguard, I will leave it undefined, I shall try a library search when I have more time and should be able to update as needed.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now for the complete verse with minor grammatical clarifications. (Very minor)
<i> <b> Disclaimer: </b> This is my own translation make of it what you will but in <b> NO </b> way shape and/or form is this grammatically correct english </i>
In quotes to make it easier to read as I like to do.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Then to complete this promise, through ieremiav the poet says then to fulfill and take back these thirty silver coins that price was paid for his value which estimated for the seperation from the sons of abraham
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now I know some of you are like, what?
This means that I was wrong, yes, I was wrong. As I orginally thought (after cxwf's post) I had incorrectly labeled the whose as something else in my head.
So, that verse has nothing to do with whether or not judas was forgiven, all it deals with is the thirty pieces of silver that was the price for the betrayal.
So, what have we learned?
Summary <ul><li>Cyndane can be wrong.</li><li>She admits it when she is.</li><li>The verse isn't quite as complete when transliterated.</li><li>The verse has nothing to do with judas' price for betrayal.</li><li>The verse doesn't say whether or not he was forgiven.</li><li>Nor does it state whether or not he went to heaven.</li></ul>The bible's stance on suicide is still very much neutral. (Unless it involves killing its(christianities) enemies)
*Edited* Had to fix a sentence or two.. and might still be a few spelling errors. Kudos for those who can point them out for me, as I have been working on this since this morning.
Summary <ul>
</li><li>Cyndane can be wrong.
</li></ul>
The bible's stance on suicide is still very much neutral. (Unless it involves killing its(christianities) enemies)
*Edited* Had to fix a sentence or two.. and might still be a few spelling errors. Kudos for those who can point them out for me, as I have been working on this since this morning.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<i>Sorry Cyndane, don't lower me to your level of personal attacks and condescending nature. I simply pointed out one fact, a fact that altered subsequent discussion in this thread. A huge gramattical error it was. And although I am quite good at spelling and will point significant errors out, you've never caught me self proclaiming myself.</i>
I will agree with what's listed, and I will also agree that there's no difinitive answer to the question I asked when this thread was created.
<span style='color:white'>That being said, Sirus may as well lock this tread, as any further discussion would be pointless.</span>