MORE screenshots, not everyone has got the luck to have a working ns version installed this days <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Lt Gravity+Jul 15 2005, 04:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lt Gravity @ Jul 15 2005, 04:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> MORE screenshots, not everyone has got the luck to have a working ns version installed this days <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> go to <a href='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/Map.php?UniqueID=530' target='_blank'>NS World</a> as i linked in both the first and the release post. Theres a whole bunch of screenshots!
Ok I tried adding a rating with comments on that website of your Pithlit but the damn thing is being stupid and saying I need to enter an e-mail an d comments when clearly there is the required information in those fields. So here are the comments I was going to add in case they don't get in, copy&paste:
<!--QuoteBegin-x5+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (x5)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Acceptable use of entropy. The custom screens are very nice indeed. Good use of geometry and textures seem to be positioned well. Unfortunately has poor use of env_glow's, animated textures (smooth & subtle are best), and atmospheric effects, a signature element of the most beautiful offical NS maps. As for lighting, way too constant, the all red is nice but so overdone in NS. Need variety in lighting, need some unlit corners. (it make it look way better & gives skulks places to hide in ambush) Smooth the ceilings or make it easier for skulks to walkwalk up there. Currently, I predict the map to be balanced too much in the mariens favor for two primary reasons: everything is well lit and not enough things for aliens to hide behind, take cover from bullets shooting at them, or jump arround on making them more manuverable.
My suggestions for improvement: more entropy! make the func_water more translucent / less opaque env_glow's are superb for creating the illusion of humidity ramp up gamma a tad (more contrast) remove some lights (some can be "broken") use "steam" func_illusions (brushes, not sprites) smooth out ceiling geometry put some crates, pipes, or other stuff for aliens to climb on or take cover with
Overall this map is great but I wouldn't call it finished. Making maps for NS that play well and are beautiful is very, very hard. The more complex, yet smooth your clipnode geometry is generally beneficial in NS. Subtly is key, you don't want repetive enviroment noises or overly flashy and choppy animated textures/sprites which will annoy the hell out of your audience and make them subconciously dislike the map. So it really is a challenging fine art and anyone who makes a good try deserves much praise.
Note this is pre-playtesting constructive criticism. I hope it helps. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I´m currently tweaking the lighting a bit, env_gamma ist to 1.7 from 1.3, gamma in compiler from 0.76 to 0.85 and i killed quite some lights with the broken ones <b>Breakthrough</b> made for me. So do you like the new view better than the old one? first the old, then the new: <img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2724/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Any way you could run a grate in-between those silver strips on the floor that's backlit. That'd make it more interesting and liven it up in the lighting department.
<!--QuoteBegin-Crispy+Jul 21 2005, 06:19 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crispy @ Jul 21 2005, 06:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Do you really need to ask?
New. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree. However, if it were possible to make the far right panel (from the picture's point of reference) not be unlit but very dim that would be even cooler.
But yes you need to go though you map and paint some darkeness. I downloaded and playtested it myself (though the stupid whichbot waypointing proved to be annoyingly buggy) and like usual my earlier criticisms are still valid. However I noticed this map has enormous potential. I also from playing with it found out that your map has rather high entropy comapred to 90% of all of the other competing custom maps out there. Bravo!
Here I repeat what I said earlier which you really need to please listen to me on. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <ul><li>more entropy!</li><li>make the func_water more translucent / less opaque</li><li>env_glow's are superb for creating the illusion of humidity</li><li>ramp up gamma a tad (more contrast)</li><li>remove some lights (some can be "broken")</li><li>use "steam" func_illusions (brushes, not sprites)</li><li>smooth out ceiling geometry</li><li>put some crates, pipes, or other stuff for aliens to climb on or take cover with</li></ul> While playing I also add that lighting really needs more varition. A common problem with almost every custom map but I think with all of the potential in this map it needs some "painting with darkness" pretty badly. Not changing it all from bright to dark, but some contrast and variation is needed. Experiment with different colors too, dark yellows and oranges which look disgusting when picked from a color chart turn out gorgeous when used as a lightsource color! But yeah more contrast and variation is probably this map's #1 need at this point. I didn't see any HoM bugs, however I did get suck/clipped inside a floor once as onos. I think that's just a engine side thing you wouldn't be able to help. (/stuck is probably the best code additive invented for NS)
So that's the #1 thing, your #2 is to build atmosphere, raise entropy, and make it more skulk friendly. Right now you map is balanced a bit too much in favor of the marines. This is a result of a number of factors: unvaried well lit almost everywhere, open areas with line of sight, few places to hide, unfriendly to climb on the wall and ceiling in combat (because it takes to long and you're exposed the whole time), and the geometry is rather rough and boxy (not smoothed or curved). Turn on flatshading and you'll see what I mean. There are some areas you can smooth out with clip brushes but other need some ingenuity to make them fluid.
I also recommend you make a few custom textures or use some decals to make stains, clawed & scratched panels/doors, some broken stuff, etc. This may sound strange but imagine you had some C4 and a big sleghammer and when inside you map and broke a few things: smashed a few lights out to make some dark corners, broke some of the celing down to reveal the wires or pulled up some floor pannels to reaveal the pipes and networking connections. And if you have a broken pipe, have it leak some water or shoot out some steam. Maybe there is a rot_button which can be turned to make steam come out and activate trigger_hurt to burn those in it. Nifty world tied traps and tricks are great treats and greatly raise you map's popularity. Func weldables that make something happen are almost an implied requirement of the official ns_ maps.
Your fps and wpoly's look good across the board which will be great when played on and allow you a little bit more room for creativity.
Looking good but can be even better! That's what's so great about an active community to give you positive criticism and feedback. Keep up the good work! We all really appreciate your efforts.
You do realise that too much entropy will demolish any possibility of this getting competitive play on it. If you make too many paths, you won't be able to create an offensive or defensive movement strategy as you won't have the manpower to cover all three connecting routes when there should only be one or two.
I do agree that entropy is important, but too much will effectively kill any NS map. Dead.
in context with the broken doors, does anyone know in wich *.wad file the broken version of door_yellgrey02 (as used in altair for example) is located? i think it would it very good in some parts of my map.
<!--QuoteBegin-Pithlit+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pithlit)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->door_yellgrey02 <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Um... I don't know off hand but use Wally and scroll down to the end to check.
In response to Crispy, there are some correct and incorrect things you say. The highest possible entropy is in the infinite void of space. Nothing is boring and there is no interaction with the environment without certain laws in place. It would be too easy if you could clip through every wall and ignore laws like gravity. So while restrictions are sometimes bad, they can also be good. True, however the problem is not directly linked to misbalancing competitive play as you imply. What makes it imbalanced is the fact that marines have primarily ranged attacks and aliens have primarily melee attacks. If the marines have a line of sight to the enemy at a far distance they can hit them long before the aliens even get close. But this is not connected to entropy because you can have visblockers and things for the aliens to take cover behind as they wind their way through to bite the heads off those pesky rines. Say you are climbing though a really dense canopy in a rainforest. You have very, very high entropy as you can move up, down, forward, backwards, diagonally, etc. but go in circles around a target without the target ever seeing you. Certain rules are applied like gravity, only can climb on branches strong enough, can go to low or not enough branches to maneuver between trees, can't go to high because you can't walk on leaves, etc. Another example is say you are in a real life ancient battle. Gravity applied, you are forced to stay on the ground (no flying) there are limits to the steepness of the inclines your units can go up/down, there are limits to the "step height" of object you units can go over, maximum distances of gaps your units can pass over, can't clip though objects blocking your path like a mountain, etc. But even then entropy is quite high because with time you can always find a way to go around your target when geography permits. However, a large open area like a desert or meadow would be terrible for NS because of the line of sight issue. But like wise you could have a very dynamic terrain like an urban environment or diverse mountainous environments (a great example are the rocky hills in Afghanistan which provide excellent cover from land based attacks).
Now with NS we already have the all of the limits from the second real world example plus engine restrains: maximum map volume of only 68,719,476,736 wcu3 (4096x*4096y*4096z; and actually we have less because problems can arise if you get too close to the edge of the size limits), we have to contend with r-speeds and keeping the fps low meaning we can ever view too huge & complex of an area or vis will suffer, we have to contend with limits placed on by the fact the computers do not have infinite RAM, etc.
And if engine restraints weren’t enough then add in architecture logic (bah! I can't find the right words for this label <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ):NS is fiction but any mapper who cares about it tries to fit in that <i>Alien </i>& <i>Aliens</i> feel. We try to design things like they <i>could</i> be real. A pipe that passes through a room will be in that same line when it passes through the hall; or better yet the player can go in the pipe and use it as an alternate path.
And now include all the gameplay restrictions and limits. Onos size considerations. Fade & ladders considerations. Line of sight restrictions. (from above) Resource node placement considerations. Hive placement considerations. Choke point considerations. Geometry considerations for skulks. Siege range considerations. (as in it would be bad if the marines could control all three hives and several res nodes from one location) Considerations about objects for aliens to take cover behind, ambush from, or climb up on. And so on.
…Ok I wrote a lot. Lol. Um here are some editing fixes I made seen in the attached image. If you guys can’t read any of the text right because mspaint has terrible JPEG compressors (in comparison to nice ones in Adobe Photoshop) and I forgot to back it up as a bmp prior to closing the window, please just let me know and I’ll tell you what is says.
Oh! And the “star” is supposed to indicate a place where you can add an attractive design feature like a nifty custom hologram with scan lines or some mesmerizing light that makes your head spin as you run towards it. You know… Ooooh... aaaaah... And please vary your lighting you have some blue and have started a smidget of breaking some stuff but to be honest I’m sick to death of seeing only red & white lights in NS. <i>Especially</i>, with those damn vents. Why does <i>every</i> vent on almost <i>every</i> need to have the exact same texture and lighting scheme? Why?! Is there some rule somewhere that says you’ll go to hell if you don’t put these specific red texture lights in your vents?! Well to end my rambling before a start feeling like I need to repeat myself over and over here’s a picture:
Btw, is there any Program wich shows for what Hl needs memory in the map loading progress, since im always stumbling over the "alloc_block full" error, when i try to add new content, but from the texture usage, from planes, clipnodes and faces, everything looks fine, so i really have no idea what causes the error. And the help is not really helpful at all, it just says, "you´r out of memory, bud" but no possible solutions, so it would be really great, if i knew what eats up all the memory!
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
You could add "-chart" to the rad compile process. It will then show you all the percentage stats of engine resources (Object names, Objects/Maxobjs, Memory / Maxmem, Fullness).
its not rad thats the problem, i get the problem already if i try to load the map with HLfix CSG and BSP only, so the problem has to occur in a very early compile stage somehow.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
I said "add it to the rad compile process", cause this is the last process that is handled. The "-chart" will then, at the end of the entire compile process, show ALL engine resources being used by the map. This includes everything csg, bsp, vis and rad are using <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Well, the error is ungraspable, like before. With a new compile it now works, but nothing changed in the map :/ Its always the same, the version gets borked but after some unsucessful compiles it suddenly works again. Heres the chart, in case there is something suspicious, that i didn´t see! <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
I have remapped the Observation lounge hiveroom, since it was in my eyes the least atractive one and i find the new one, much better looking: <img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2723/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> maybe you can spot some of the other mapchanges on this minimap, too <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2722/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
edit: oh, and im now going with the red crates, if you don´t like the green ones
<!--QuoteBegin-Pithlit+Jul 27 2005, 12:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pithlit @ Jul 27 2005, 12:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In the other news: If you don´t like green crates, wich colour would you prefer? -Yellow -Red -Blue ? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> How about a custom made crate in a colour of your own choosing which isn't or is one of the above? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Pithlit+Jul 26 2005, 10:33 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pithlit @ Jul 26 2005, 10:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> in context with the broken doors, does anyone know in wich *.wad file the broken version of door_yellgrey02 (as used in altair for example) is located? i think it would it very good in some parts of my map. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It's a texture I had a friend make for Altair.
Kung Fu: Well, would you allow me to use it? I have seen it in both Altair and in siege_generator and i ahve to say it looks great ^^
All: Oh and for the others i am planning some sort of release party on our clan server for b24, so i get more feedback from other people than my clan. Would you participate if i´d do soemthing like that? More being announced, soon!
1) oversized. It's still way to large in most of the map. There;s no claustrophobic feeling anywhere in the map. Alot of hallways feel like rooms, and some even feel ike cargo bays. Adding to this, plenty of textures are too large, to the point they look stretched, which amplify the feeling even more.
2) random. broken panels and computers in the walls are all and good, but... they're randomly placed. It seems you just pushed whatever looked alright into whateven walls were too flat, but most of them don't seem to belong.
Well, i updated the screen so that they can represent the new light settings. To see them all please go to <a href='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/Map.php?UniqueID=530' target='_blank'>NS World´s prometheus Site</a> since i don´t want to stress your bandwidth here. Personally i think its a little too dark right now. Most places have a nice D3 feeling to them, now, but some are plain to dark in my opinion. Its highly likley that released settings will be a little brighter.
The layout will undergo some small changes aswell until the next release, but i just wanted to show you the new brighness of the map and hope that you find it better than the old one.
Kung-Fu: Well, thanks for the info, i think im going to ask Sgt. Barlow for his texture then ^^
Comments
go to <a href='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/Map.php?UniqueID=530' target='_blank'>NS World</a> as i linked in both the first and the release post.
Theres a whole bunch of screenshots!
<!--QuoteBegin-x5+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (x5)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Acceptable use of entropy. The custom screens are very nice indeed. Good use of geometry and textures seem to be positioned well. Unfortunately has poor use of env_glow's, animated textures (smooth & subtle are best), and atmospheric effects, a signature element of the most beautiful offical NS maps. As for lighting, way too constant, the all red is nice but so overdone in NS. Need variety in lighting, need some unlit corners. (it make it look way better & gives skulks places to hide in ambush) Smooth the ceilings or make it easier for skulks to walkwalk up there. Currently, I predict the map to be balanced too much in the mariens favor for two primary reasons: everything is well lit and not enough things for aliens to hide behind, take cover from bullets shooting at them, or jump arround on making them more manuverable.
My suggestions for improvement:
more entropy!
make the func_water more translucent / less opaque
env_glow's are superb for creating the illusion of humidity
ramp up gamma a tad (more contrast)
remove some lights (some can be "broken")
use "steam" func_illusions (brushes, not sprites)
smooth out ceiling geometry
put some crates, pipes, or other stuff for aliens to climb on or take cover with
Overall this map is great but I wouldn't call it finished. Making maps for NS that play well and are beautiful is very, very hard. The more complex, yet smooth your clipnode geometry is generally beneficial in NS. Subtly is key, you don't want repetive enviroment noises or overly flashy and choppy animated textures/sprites which will annoy the hell out of your audience and make them subconciously dislike the map. So it really is a challenging fine art and anyone who makes a good try deserves much praise.
Thank you Pithlit,
x5<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Note this is pre-playtesting constructive criticism. I hope it helps. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
gj dude
first the old, then the new:
<img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2724/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
New.
Nice work!
New. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree. However, if it were possible to make the far right panel (from the picture's point of reference) not be unlit but very dim that would be even cooler.
But yes you need to go though you map and paint some darkeness. I downloaded and playtested it myself (though the stupid whichbot waypointing proved to be annoyingly buggy) and like usual my earlier criticisms are still valid. However I noticed this map has enormous potential. I also from playing with it found out that your map has rather high entropy comapred to 90% of all of the other competing custom maps out there. Bravo!
Here I repeat what I said earlier which you really need to please listen to me on. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <ul><li>more entropy!</li><li>make the func_water more translucent / less opaque</li><li>env_glow's are superb for creating the illusion of humidity</li><li>ramp up gamma a tad (more contrast)</li><li>remove some lights (some can be "broken")</li><li>use "steam" func_illusions (brushes, not sprites)</li><li>smooth out ceiling geometry</li><li>put some crates, pipes, or other stuff for aliens to climb on or take cover with</li></ul>
While playing I also add that lighting really needs more varition. A common problem with almost every custom map but I think with all of the potential in this map it needs some "painting with darkness" pretty badly. Not changing it all from bright to dark, but some contrast and variation is needed. Experiment with different colors too, dark yellows and oranges which look disgusting when picked from a color chart turn out gorgeous when used as a lightsource color! But yeah more contrast and variation is probably this map's #1 need at this point. I didn't see any HoM bugs, however I did get suck/clipped inside a floor once as onos. I think that's just a engine side thing you wouldn't be able to help. (/stuck is probably the best code additive invented for NS)
So that's the #1 thing, your #2 is to build atmosphere, raise entropy, and make it more skulk friendly. Right now you map is balanced a bit too much in favor of the marines. This is a result of a number of factors: unvaried well lit almost everywhere, open areas with line of sight, few places to hide, unfriendly to climb on the wall and ceiling in combat (because it takes to long and you're exposed the whole time), and the geometry is rather rough and boxy (not smoothed or curved). Turn on flatshading and you'll see what I mean. There are some areas you can smooth out with clip brushes but other need some ingenuity to make them fluid.
I also recommend you make a few custom textures or use some decals to make stains, clawed & scratched panels/doors, some broken stuff, etc. This may sound strange but imagine you had some C4 and a big sleghammer and when inside you map and broke a few things: smashed a few lights out to make some dark corners, broke some of the celing down to reveal the wires or pulled up some floor pannels to reaveal the pipes and networking connections. And if you have a broken pipe, have it leak some water or shoot out some steam. Maybe there is a rot_button which can be turned to make steam come out and activate trigger_hurt to burn those in it. Nifty world tied traps and tricks are great treats and greatly raise you map's popularity. Func weldables that make something happen are almost an implied requirement of the official ns_ maps.
Your fps and wpoly's look good across the board which will be great when played on and allow you a little bit more room for creativity.
Looking good but can be even better! That's what's so great about an active community to give you positive criticism and feedback. Keep up the good work! We all really appreciate your efforts.
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I do agree that entropy is important, but too much will effectively kill any NS map. Dead.
i think it would it very good in some parts of my map.
Um... I don't know off hand but use Wally and scroll down to the end to check.
In response to Crispy,
there are some correct and incorrect things you say. The highest possible entropy is in the infinite void of space. Nothing is boring and there is no interaction with the environment without certain laws in place. It would be too easy if you could clip through every wall and ignore laws like gravity. So while restrictions are sometimes bad, they can also be good. True, however the problem is not directly linked to misbalancing competitive play as you imply. What makes it imbalanced is the fact that marines have primarily ranged attacks and aliens have primarily melee attacks. If the marines have a line of sight to the enemy at a far distance they can hit them long before the aliens even get close. But this is not connected to entropy because you can have visblockers and things for the aliens to take cover behind as they wind their way through to bite the heads off those pesky rines. Say you are climbing though a really dense canopy in a rainforest. You have very, very high entropy as you can move up, down, forward, backwards, diagonally, etc. but go in circles around a target without the target ever seeing you. Certain rules are applied like gravity, only can climb on branches strong enough, can go to low or not enough branches to maneuver between trees, can't go to high because you can't walk on leaves, etc. Another example is say you are in a real life ancient battle. Gravity applied, you are forced to stay on the ground (no flying) there are limits to the steepness of the inclines your units can go up/down, there are limits to the "step height" of object you units can go over, maximum distances of gaps your units can pass over, can't clip though objects blocking your path like a mountain, etc. But even then entropy is quite high because with time you can always find a way to go around your target when geography permits. However, a large open area like a desert or meadow would be terrible for NS because of the line of sight issue. But like wise you could have a very dynamic terrain like an urban environment or diverse mountainous environments (a great example are the rocky hills in Afghanistan which provide excellent cover from land based attacks).
Now with NS we already have the all of the limits from the second real world example plus engine restrains: maximum map volume of only 68,719,476,736 wcu3 (4096x*4096y*4096z; and actually we have less because problems can arise if you get too close to the edge of the size limits), we have to contend with r-speeds and keeping the fps low meaning we can ever view too huge & complex of an area or vis will suffer, we have to contend with limits placed on by the fact the computers do not have infinite RAM, etc.
And if engine restraints weren’t enough then add in architecture logic (bah! I can't find the right words for this label <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ):NS is fiction but any mapper who cares about it tries to fit in that <i>Alien </i>& <i>Aliens</i> feel. We try to design things like they <i>could</i> be real. A pipe that passes through a room will be in that same line when it passes through the hall; or better yet the player can go in the pipe and use it as an alternate path.
And now include all the gameplay restrictions and limits. Onos size considerations. Fade & ladders considerations. Line of sight restrictions. (from above) Resource node placement considerations. Hive placement considerations. Choke point considerations. Geometry considerations for skulks. Siege range considerations. (as in it would be bad if the marines could control all three hives and several res nodes from one location) Considerations about objects for aliens to take cover behind, ambush from, or climb up on. And so on.
…Ok I wrote a lot. Lol. Um here are some editing fixes I made seen in the attached image. If you guys can’t read any of the text right because mspaint has terrible JPEG compressors (in comparison to nice ones in Adobe Photoshop) and I forgot to back it up as a bmp prior to closing the window, please just let me know and I’ll tell you what is says.
Oh! And the “star” is supposed to indicate a place where you can add an attractive design feature like a nifty custom hologram with scan lines or some mesmerizing light that makes your head spin as you run towards it. You know… Ooooh... aaaaah... And please vary your lighting you have some blue and have started a smidget of breaking some stuff but to be honest I’m sick to death of seeing only red & white lights in NS. <i>Especially</i>, with those damn vents. Why does <i>every</i> vent on almost <i>every</i> need to have the exact same texture and lighting scheme? Why?! Is there some rule somewhere that says you’ll go to hell if you don’t put these specific red texture lights in your vents?! Well to end my rambling before a start feeling like I need to repeat myself over and over here’s a picture:
And the help is not really helpful at all, it just says, "you´r out of memory, bud" but no possible solutions, so it would be really great, if i knew what eats up all the memory!
With a new compile it now works, but nothing changed in the map :/
Its always the same, the version gets borked but after some unsucessful compiles it suddenly works again.
Heres the chart, in case there is something suspicious, that i didn´t see!
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Object names Objects/Maxobjs Memory / Maxmem Fullness
------------ --------------- --------------- --------
models 132/400 8448/25600 (33.0%)
planes 10596/32768 211920/655360 (32.3%)
vertexes 24412/65535 292944/786420 (37.3%)
nodes 8909/32767 213816/786408 (27.2%)
texinfos 8158/32767 326320/1310680 (24.9%)
faces 15962/65535 319240/1310700 (24.4%)
clipnodes 21721/32767 173768/262136 (66.3%)
leaves 5083/8192 142324/229376 (62.0%)
marksurfaces 22872/65535 45744/131070 (34.9%)
surfedges 76476/512000 305904/2048000 (14.9%)
edges 41007/256000 164028/1024000 (16.0%)
texdata [variable] 8576/4194304 ( 0.2%)
lightdata [variable] 5497425/6291456 (87.4%)
visdata [variable] 140418/2097152 ( 6.7%)
entdata [variable] 67997/524288 (13.0%)
119 textures referenced
=== Total BSP file data space used: 7918872 bytes ===
2666.00 seconds elapsed [44m 26s]
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In the other news:
If you don´t like green crates, wich colour would you prefer?
-Yellow
-Red
-Blue
?
<img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2723/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
maybe you can spot some of the other mapchanges on this minimap, too <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<img src='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/pictures/Uploaded/2722/fullsize.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
edit: oh, and im now going with the red crates, if you don´t like the green ones
If you don´t like green crates, wich colour would you prefer?
-Yellow
-Red
-Blue
? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about a custom made crate in a colour of your own choosing which isn't or is one of the above? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
i think it would it very good in some parts of my map. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's a texture I had a friend make for Altair.
Well, would you allow me to use it?
I have seen it in both Altair and in siege_generator and i ahve to say it looks great ^^
All:
Oh and for the others i am planning some sort of release party on our clan server for b24, so i get more feedback from other people than my clan.
Would you participate if i´d do soemthing like that?
More being announced, soon!
2) random. broken panels and computers in the walls are all and good, but... they're randomly placed. It seems you just pushed whatever looked alright into whateven walls were too flat, but most of them don't seem to belong.
I currently don't have any plans of releasing the wad file I made for Altair.
To see them all please go to <a href='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/Map.php?UniqueID=530' target='_blank'>NS World´s prometheus Site</a> since i don´t want to stress your bandwidth here.
Personally i think its a little too dark right now.
Most places have a nice D3 feeling to them, now, but some are plain to dark in my opinion.
Its highly likley that released settings will be a little brighter.
The layout will undergo some small changes aswell until the next release, but i just wanted to show you the new brighness of the map and hope that you find it better than the old one.
Kung-Fu:
Well, thanks for the info, i think im going to ask Sgt. Barlow for his texture then ^^
you should really change the contrast on those screenshots. its nothing special though.