I am so tired of the stupid. Theres far too much of it. And, "antigaming activist"?! What the hell is that?! I didn't even know people like that existed!
I also hate how he is so ignorant of the way games function that he can't distinguish between a cheat and a mod.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"The sex and the nudity are in the game. That's the point. The blur is an admission that even the 'Ken and Barbie' features should not be displayed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This guy is a moron. "Ken and Barbie" features means no features whatsoever! If they're bad, why do we even allow Barbie dolls?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is no different than what is in San Andreas, although worse."<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now, I'm sure that there are plenty of things wrong with this statement, but the logical one hit me first: How can it be "no different", but different?
Edit: Apparently, Jack Thompson also has a website: <a href='http://www.stopkill.com/' target='_blank'>http://www.stopkill.com/</a>
Hey, and an email address too: jackpeace@comcast.net
Edit II: Although, maybe he's right. I started laughing when I read whats in bold: <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In this game you have sex with a prostitute and then kill her grotesquely to get your money back and win the game faster. Police officers are set on fire, <b>shotgunned in the face</b>, and innocent pedestrians are run over with cars.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you think I can get in trouble for sending this to him?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Dear Jack
I’m terribly sorry that your mother forgot to teach you when you were a little child that her **** and your ****, or any ****/ **** combo you prefer, could be used for something other then passing water.
I’m also sorry you had to learn such elementary sexual concepts in such a graphic form when you were accidentally playing your illegally modified version of GTA: SA. I can see why this would outrage you, and I’ll talk about your possible, as of yet unrealized, racist tendencies in a moment.
I know a fully clothed black man vigorously tickling a girl’s **** with his crotchal region may have not only frightened and confused your formally virgin mind, but also enraged you that this man was black and not white. I know that’s why you’re really doing this and I’ll be sure to let my friend, the good Rev. Al Sharpton know about your real intentions: Banning blacks from being featured in video games.
However your latest attack on The Sims is a shocking turn of events form your usual goal of creating Jim Crow laws for video games.
I was under the impression that much of The Sims fan base consists of woman between the ages of 16-30. Now some of these woman may be black and I certainly don’t have all the free time or legal training that you do to come up with as much **** as you manage to, but I’m sure you have your reasons.
Anyway why not tone it down a notch Jack my boy? Untwist your panties, have a glass of scotch and sit back with the rest of us so Western Civilization can decline in peace.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Edit: Sent it under a newly created e-mail address...why take chances. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I sent him this: <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I recently saw an article on Gamespot.com involving you, and how you've spoken out against videogames.
First, I'd like to point out that the only way to see genitals in The Sims 2 is through a modification (or mods, as we call them), not through a cheat. A cheat is a code entered into the game to unlock content that has always been present. A mod, however, is just that: a modification. Mods are third-party add-ons that introduce new content, and the creators of the game have no control over this content.
Second, you seem to place a large blame on videogames for various real violent acts. What about the parents? The games are not to blame, it is poor parenting. But, alas, no one wants to say that. Rather than blame the people who actually made the mistake of raising such overly-violent children, they instead decide to blame the giant, faceless corporation. This, in turn, punishes us, the consumers, who know the difference between right and wrong, life and fiction.
I'd like to leave you with two quotes. The first is from your site, StopKill.com: "Safety will trump freedom." The second, by Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
I consider my right to be entertained, in a responsible way, an essential liberty.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe I'll send a less polite one later from my other email address.
<!--QuoteBegin-Mantrid+Jul 22 2005, 06:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mantrid @ Jul 22 2005, 06:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I sent him this: <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I recently saw an article on Gamespot.com involving you, and how you've spoken out against videogames.
First, I'd like to point out that the only way to see genitals in The Sims 2 is through a modification (or mods, as we call them), not through a cheat. A cheat is a code entered into the game to unlock content that has always been present. A mod, however, is just that: a modification. Mods are third-party add-ons that introduce new content, and the creators of the game have no control over this content.
Second, you seem to place a large blame on videogames for various real violent acts. What about the parents? The games are not to blame, it is poor parenting. But, alas, no one wants to say that. Rather than blame the people who actually made the mistake of raising such overly-violent children, they instead decide to blame the giant, faceless corporation. This, in turn, punishes us, the consumers, who know the difference between right and wrong, life and fiction.
I'd like to leave you with two quotes. The first is from your site, StopKill.com: "Safety will trump freedom." The second, by Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
I consider my right to be entertained, in a responsible way, an essential liberty.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe I'll send a less polite one later from my other email address. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Something like
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->OLL LEIK OMG WTH DEUD! UR STOPID! HAHA I PWN U AT HALO 2 WIF MY NUDE MODELS<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
KungFuSquirrelBasher of MuttonsJoin Date: 2002-01-26Member: 103Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Don't even bother sending him mail. The guy's a nutcase and has likened the head of the ESA to Hitler/Hussein on numerous occasions, then apologized because that was complimentary to the dictators.
The more the guy flips out and overreacts, the less seriously people take him. The only power he has is when people buy what he says, and him tossing up quotes from overzealous knee-jerk gamer e-mails is just going to fuel that fire. And if you're eloquent and courteous? He'll call you a murdering scumbag anyway, or something.
Alcapwn"War is the science of destruction" - John AbbotJoin Date: 2003-06-21Member: 17590Members
Im just waiting for some high-priced lawyer to sue valve because they found a naked alyx model on the internet, and saying that its valves fault because they allow custom content to be used in there game.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In the statement, Thompson says, "Sims 2, the latest version of the Sims video game franchise ... contains, according to video game news sites, full frontal nudity, including nipples, penises, labia, and pubic hair." <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's true, and you've said it yourselves- he would have to download a mod to see this. Sadly, it seems that this guy either has sources that know something about games or he knows a bit about games himself. This means that he can bash many, many games by attacking simply their mods, while using the media sectors friendly to his cause to obscure important facts about modding and model insertion from the public. You guys seem to be implying that he may have stumbled over this through ignorance, but it may be his plan. I'm hoping for the former.
Unfortunately, we've also got a good chunk of politicians against us- some Democrats, such as Joe Lieberman, favor censorship of violent games because of their pacifist tendancies, and I'm willing to bet that Republicans will quickly pick up the cause in another moral crusade-type deal. The worst part of this is that pundits with undying allegiances will form a direct mind-meld between the said politicians and the average Fox/CNN/MSNBC viewer.
Also, evil as this tactic may sound, video game corporations don't have enough lobbyists/connections/leverage in Washington. Hollywood, while already moderately regulated, keeps itself from being fully censored because they have money, they're popular, and they're <i>loud</i>. We're just loud over the internet.
Alcapwn"War is the science of destruction" - John AbbotJoin Date: 2003-06-21Member: 17590Members
Here's my email too him (I could have made it funny and poking fun at him, but i wanted this one to be serious)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Your stance on The Sims 2 is, too say the least, way out of line. I, and many other people, have seen this gamespot article. (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/22/news_6129609.html) First, I'm going to pick apart your article and explain to you why your wrong.
"Sims 2, the latest version of the Sims video game franchise ... contains, according to video game news sites, full frontal nudity, including nipples, penises, labia, and pubic hair."
Hmm, maybe if you actually took your time to research, you would find that, in fact, that is not the case. You even contradict yourself on that point. Here is a quote from you in that same article just at the bottom of the page.
"The blur is an admission that even the 'Ken and Barbie' features should not be displayed."
OK, so you have just said that the body's in Sims 2 don't actually contain "Nipples, penises, labia, and pubic hair" (as you said) but feature...flat surfaces. Why the lies, Jack, why the lies? Why did you lie in your previous statement?
Here is another quote from you in that article:
"The nudity placed there by the publisher/maker, Electronic Arts, is accessed by the use of a simple code that removes what is called 'the blur' which obscures the genital areas. In other words, the game was released to the public by the manufacturer knowing that the full frontal nudity was resident on the game and would be accessed by use of a simple code widely provided on the Internet."
Correct me if I'm wrong (and I don't believe I am), but doesn't full frontal nudity, among other things, contain penises, ****'s, nipples, etc?
So, again. You have lied. Call it what you want, it's a lie. If you think that Ken and Barby features don't belong in a Game rated T for teen, then you should also be going after Mattel for making a doll that is marketed to kids under 5 that have the same features, shouldn't you?
And if your looking out for the good of the community, as you say you do, shouldn't you go after the makers of said doll? I mean, they have a much broader appeal, and they appeal to younger audiences. If you were really looking out for the good of the people you should go after then first.
Let me ask you something, Jack. Did you play the Sims 2 in depth? I'm not talking for 15 minutes so you can test out your ludicrous accusations, i mean playing the game for more than 2 or 3 hours for the purpose of having fun, instead of picking apart the game? If you didn't, then you should.
Now, if by now you figured out that all I'm doing is pointing out your mistakes and technicalities, then your right. That's exactly what i did. However, let me point out that none, or at least very few, of those would have been there had your accusations been true. However, as i have proved, there not.
I'm expecting a reply for this email. And not the usual cookie-cutter reply either.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-WaterBoy+Jul 22 2005, 10:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WaterBoy @ Jul 22 2005, 10:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <a href='http://gr.bolt.com/articles/violence/violence.htm' target='_blank'>The truth about violent videogames.</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Can anyone verify this for me? It would be incredible if it were true.
Can someone still explain though why video games apparently dont have any protection under freedom of speech? We can write books with sex and violence, we can paint pictures with sex and violence, we can make sculptures with sex and violence (humping snowmen ftw), we can make movies with sex and violence, but apparently if you make a video game its not allowed. Seriously. We encourage our kids to read classics like The Scarlet Letter, which personally I think is a frickin horrible book, which has sex violence etc etc, but they cant actually see it so its ok.
NEO_PhyteWe need shirtgons!Join Date: 2003-12-16Member: 24453Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-reasa+Jul 22 2005, 04:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (reasa @ Jul 22 2005, 04:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Thompson...Jack Tompson the lawyer...I think he lives in Miami.
I should tell you people, perhaps some of you have even heard about this before...
Do any of you remember a novelty story of sorts about a man who was being orally pleasured by his girlfriend and she went psycho and bit off his unmentionables and spit them out their 3rd story window into rush hour traffic?
That was Jack Tompson.
Who was severely injured in a car crash due to a certain unsightly obstruction splattering all over his windshield.
He hasn’t been quite right since. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> you know about some creepy things
I am writing this email to inform you of some very incorrect statements made on your website, <a href='http://www.StopKill.com' target='_blank'>http://www.StopKill.com</a>. Please note that this email is not meant to attack you personally or harrass you.
You state that video games cause children to become violent and teach them how to be violent. I disagree with you there. Here are some of the incorrect statements I found on your website, and my corrections:
"This game allows you to train yourself to kill people by placing plastic bags over their heads while you watch them struggle while suffocating."
Manhunt does not train you to kill. Pressing a button and causing the character to place a virtual bag over a virtual character's head does not teach you how to place the bag over their head, nor does it teach you how to keep it there until the victim suffocates. I would also like to note that the character is not, in fact, a real person that is suffocating but rather, a 3D model and an AI routine that responds to a certain factor.
"You may know someone harmed by someone addicted to violent entertainment who copycatted that violence." If someone copied violence that they saw on television, the blame falls on the parents for not teaching the child that it is wrong to hurt others, and that video games are merely fantasy.
"The incredibly violent Grand Theft Auto: Vice City, made by Take-Two Interactive of New York City, has caused multiple copycat killings across the country." Grand Theft Auto: Vice City was, in fact, made by Rockstar Games and PUBLISHED by Take-Two Interactive.
"In this game you have sex with a prostitute and then kill her grotesquely to get your money back and win the game faster. Police officers are set on fire, shotgunned in the face, and innocent pedestrians are run over with cars." Note that these are POSSIBLE choices. You are completely free to do this, but you are also completely free to be a law-abiding citizen that hurts nobody. I would like to question the amount of time you have spent playing or observing this game, if any, as you have a poor understanding of the mechanics of the game.
"In April 1999, eight days before Columbine, Jack Thompson appeared on national television to identify the role that shooter video games, specifically Doom, would play in future school shootings. A week later in Littleton, Colorado, Klebold and Harris, who obsessively trained on Doom, killed thirteen." I mean no disrespect towards the victims of this attack, but Klebold and Harris did NOT train on the video game DOOM. Once again, I would like to question your understanding of the mechanics of this gane, as well. To suggest that they learned how to kill by playing DOOM would be like suggesting that a young man learned how to fly by observing a flock of birds. They merely enjoyed playing the game.
"Jack Thompson predicted, in an interview by Matt Lauer on NBC's Today show three weeks before the Beltway Snipers were apprehended, that one of the snipers "might very well be a video gamer as young as 15 trained on a game switched to sniper-mode or God-mode."" And again, a poor understanding of the game in question is evident. Halo is a science fiction first-person shooting game. It is not, in any way, able to train anyone on the mechanics of operating a rifle, and it is certainly not able to assist their aiming ability. Also, "God-mode" is a mode where the player's character is unable to be killed. That is the only way it effects the game.
"I am trying to protect our freedoms." That is incorrect. You are trying to limit the freedom of artists to create their work.
Video games cannot train children to kill, as they are simply not a bit like reality. The weapons and the environment do not accurately resemble their real life counterparts, it is incredibly simplified. The process of moving the mouse or joystick in order to point a crosshair in the center of the screen at a virtual character and then pressing a button to fire is absolutely nothing like firing a real weapon.
They also can not make children violent, if their parents have taught them properly. Learning the difference between fantasy and reality is incredibly important, and it is the parent's fault if the child does not learn this. It is entirely possible for the child to learn this at a young age.
Video games, however, MAY trigger people with already-existing psychological issues to become violent. However, that does not make for a case against video games, as absolutely anything can be a trigger.
Thank you for your time, I would appreciate it if you would take my points in to consideration. - Chris Forrester<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Cold NiTe+Jul 22 2005, 10:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cold NiTe @ Jul 22 2005, 10:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-WaterBoy+Jul 22 2005, 10:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WaterBoy @ Jul 22 2005, 10:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <a href='http://gr.bolt.com/articles/violence/violence.htm' target='_blank'>The truth about violent videogames.</a> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Can anyone verify this for me? It would be incredible if it were true. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The reality is that crimnals do not play games.
if you could please post his reply to your email, I'm interested in seeing his reply although I doubt it will be any different that the others I have seen.
get someone to proof read your important emails before you send them... i saw at least two errors in the first email i read but didnt really check for more... and i didnt read the second in the thread....
people probably wont take you seriously if they see you spell "you are" your instead of you're.. or "barby" instead of barbie especially when its quoted in the email <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
You typed out <i>all that</i> for Jack Thompson? What a colossal waste of time. The best part is that he's not even going to bother reading it, although he'll probably reply anyway.
It is utterly stupid and retard for someone to blame a modification of a game that someone has to ACTIVELY find to enable it.
And even if making a game character naked by a mod is a crime, why is it they are blaming the game and NOT the modder who did it?
I can't believe Jack Thompson has this much leverage and yet can be so damn stubborn. He updates his statement saying
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Thompson this afternoon updated his earlier statement, saying he is aware certain mods only remove "the blur," but adds that "Electronic Arts has done nothing about this." Thompson's new conclusion: EA is "cooperating, gleefully, with the mod community to turn Sims 2 into a porn offering."<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So now because game companies don't block out mods, game companies are automatically supporting the mod??? If Jack goes on this way, game modding is going to the pits with game companoes banning mods.
There was once this news about DOA: Beach Volleyball. When someone modded a naked mod for it on the Xbox, the game developers quickly made all attempts to stop it. I thought it was ridiculuous but sad that soon it might be an everyday occurance if Jack Thompson is not stopped now.
<!--QuoteBegin-Pulse+Jul 23 2005, 04:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pulse @ Jul 23 2005, 04:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You typed out <i>all that</i> for Jack Thompson? What a colossal waste of time. The best part is that he's not even going to bother reading it, although he'll probably reply anyway. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That took me like ten minutes to write. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Remove the quotes, and it shrinks to half the size that it looks to be.
I'll post the reply, though. Possibly toss back another mocking email, disguised under a sea of professional wording and such.
Good thing he attacked sims2 second. EA has deep pockets and isn't going to let some lunitic tromp on thier bestseller while he goes about some sick vendetta. The lawsuit will be lost before it's started, lunitic has his reputation ruined and can't make legal attacks against public companies with any positive public support any more, story over.
He should have attacked UT2004, HL2 or Morrowind next. He'd have a chance at acctually making a case in those titles.
Next on his list,nudity on World of Warcraft. We'll not see him for 2-3 months mind while he "complies his report" (hits level 60). <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Then he'll have forgotten why he played WOW for that length of time,and move on to targeting Winnie the Pooh and the Teletubbie games.
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Jul 23 2005, 10:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Jul 23 2005, 10:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Good thing he attacked sims2 second. EA has deep pockets and isn't going to let some lunitic tromp on thier bestseller while he goes about some sick vendetta. The lawsuit will be lost before it's started, lunitic has his reputation ruined and can't make legal attacks against public companies with any positive public support any more, story over.
He should have attacked UT2004, HL2 or Morrowind next. He'd have a chance at acctually making a case in those titles. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I hadn't thought of that actually, but it's a good point. If anyone in the game world has the ability (and the will) to stand up to something like this, it's gonna be EA. Which is good.
KungFuSquirrelBasher of MuttonsJoin Date: 2002-01-26Member: 103Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Valve, Epic, and id could hold their own, too.
But guys, seriously, do not waste your time on Jack Thompson. At best you'll get an insulting and berating mail back about how he's your worst nightmare and will crush the industry.
You want to make a difference? Mail Hilary Clinton or Leland Yee. Tell them about yourself. Tell them you're an avid gamer. Tell them you're concerned about the potential of federal regulation. If you can, mention that your parents are involved in what you play, but don't use generic anecdotal (i.e. "I'm not violent or a killer!") tales (which are worthless) unless it helps a point mentioned in this next barrage:
In particular, talk about the mod community. Talk about the friends you've made all over the world. Talk about how, if you create content for games, it challenges your creative and technical knowledge. Emphasize that it is not 'hackers' doing this as the media suggests. Talk about how you worry about Jack Thompson's latest barrage and that people will target well-meaning amateur developers in the name of stopping a few lame nudie mods. Tell them you worry if games start being judged by the content that 3rd-party users can create, companies may cease shipping editors and SDKs and the like. Hell, if applicable, tell them your mod development work keeps you off the street or away from drugs or something. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> I mean, when other kids my age in high school and college were out getting drunk, stoned, and laid, I was playing games and making maps and having the time of my life.
Also perhaps mention to Hilary that you'll be voting in 2008 <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
When you listen to more than just snippets of these two, they have some very intelligent thoughts and are not 'out to get' the industry as a whole. There are some misplaced feelings, but when they come down to it, the big concern is making sure the ratings system is enforced. Which it is, but voluntarily.
Hilary has floated ideas in the past for a unified ratings system for TV, movies, and games. This is an excellent idea. People in Europe sometimes mock us for our silly mix of TV-14, PG-13, T, etc. etc. It's no wonder people get confused, and given people's perceptions of gaming as kids-only, it's no wonder that parents who don't know any better buy their kids GTA and get shocked at what they find. I think <i>this</i> is the answer, not a federal mandate. No major entertainment industry is regulated by the government and it's particularly important as gaming crawls up from its fledgling status into a multi-billion dollar industry that this doesn't happen now.
Comments
I also hate how he is so ignorant of the way games function that he can't distinguish between a cheat and a mod.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"The sex and the nudity are in the game. That's the point. The blur is an admission that even the 'Ken and Barbie' features should not be displayed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This guy is a moron. "Ken and Barbie" features means no features whatsoever! If they're bad, why do we even allow Barbie dolls?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is no different than what is in San Andreas, although worse."<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now, I'm sure that there are plenty of things wrong with this statement, but the logical one hit me first: How can it be "no different", but different?
Edit: Apparently, Jack Thompson also has a website: <a href='http://www.stopkill.com/' target='_blank'>http://www.stopkill.com/</a>
Hey, and an email address too: jackpeace@comcast.net
Edit II: Although, maybe he's right. I started laughing when I read whats in bold:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In this game you have sex with a prostitute and then kill her grotesquely to get your money back and win the game faster. Police officers are set on fire, <b>shotgunned in the face</b>, and innocent pedestrians are run over with cars.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh...hehe hehe....*sigh*
edit: doh, I made this post a while back but never hit submit, you may ignore
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Dear Jack
I’m terribly sorry that your mother forgot to teach you when you were a little child that her **** and your ****, or any ****/ **** combo you prefer, could be used for something other then passing water.
I’m also sorry you had to learn such elementary sexual concepts in such a graphic form when you were accidentally playing your illegally modified version of GTA: SA. I can see why this would outrage you, and I’ll talk about your possible, as of yet unrealized, racist tendencies in a moment.
I know a fully clothed black man vigorously tickling a girl’s **** with his crotchal region may have not only frightened and confused your formally virgin mind, but also enraged you that this man was black and not white. I know that’s why you’re really doing this and I’ll be sure to let my friend, the good Rev. Al Sharpton know about your real intentions: Banning blacks from being featured in video games.
However your latest attack on The Sims is a shocking turn of events form your usual goal of creating Jim Crow laws for video games.
I was under the impression that much of The Sims fan base consists of woman between the ages of 16-30. Now some of these woman may be black and I certainly don’t have all the free time or legal training that you do to come up with as much **** as you manage to, but I’m sure you have your reasons.
Anyway why not tone it down a notch Jack my boy? Untwist your panties, have a glass of scotch and sit back with the rest of us so Western Civilization can decline in peace.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Edit: Sent it under a newly created e-mail address...why take chances. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I recently saw an article on Gamespot.com involving you, and how
you've spoken out against videogames.
First, I'd like to point out that the only way to see genitals in The
Sims 2 is through a modification (or mods, as we call them), not
through a cheat. A cheat is a code entered into the game to unlock
content that has always been present. A mod, however, is just that: a
modification. Mods are third-party add-ons that introduce new content,
and the creators of the game have no control over this content.
Second, you seem to place a large blame on videogames for various real
violent acts. What about the parents? The games are not to blame, it
is poor parenting. But, alas, no one wants to say that. Rather than
blame the people who actually made the mistake of raising such
overly-violent children, they instead decide to blame the giant,
faceless corporation. This, in turn, punishes us, the consumers, who
know the difference between right and wrong, life and fiction.
I'd like to leave you with two quotes. The first is from your site,
StopKill.com:
"Safety will trump freedom."
The second, by Benjamin Franklin:
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little
temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
I consider my right to be entertained, in a responsible way, an
essential liberty.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe I'll send a less polite one later from my other email address.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I recently saw an article on Gamespot.com involving you, and how
you've spoken out against videogames.
First, I'd like to point out that the only way to see genitals in The
Sims 2 is through a modification (or mods, as we call them), not
through a cheat. A cheat is a code entered into the game to unlock
content that has always been present. A mod, however, is just that: a
modification. Mods are third-party add-ons that introduce new content,
and the creators of the game have no control over this content.
Second, you seem to place a large blame on videogames for various real
violent acts. What about the parents? The games are not to blame, it
is poor parenting. But, alas, no one wants to say that. Rather than
blame the people who actually made the mistake of raising such
overly-violent children, they instead decide to blame the giant,
faceless corporation. This, in turn, punishes us, the consumers, who
know the difference between right and wrong, life and fiction.
I'd like to leave you with two quotes. The first is from your site,
StopKill.com:
"Safety will trump freedom."
The second, by Benjamin Franklin:
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little
temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
I consider my right to be entertained, in a responsible way, an
essential liberty.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe I'll send a less polite one later from my other email address. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Something like
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->OLL LEIK OMG WTH DEUD! UR STOPID! HAHA I PWN U AT HALO 2 WIF MY NUDE MODELS<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
AHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA.
This guy is such a joke I'm finding it hard to control my laughter.
The more the guy flips out and overreacts, the less seriously people take him. The only power he has is when people buy what he says, and him tossing up quotes from overzealous knee-jerk gamer e-mails is just going to fuel that fire. And if you're eloquent and courteous? He'll call you a murdering scumbag anyway, or something.
It's true, and you've said it yourselves- he would have to download a mod to see this. Sadly, it seems that this guy either has sources that know something about games or he knows a bit about games himself. This means that he can bash many, many games by attacking simply their mods, while using the media sectors friendly to his cause to obscure important facts about modding and model insertion from the public. You guys seem to be implying that he may have stumbled over this through ignorance, but it may be his plan. I'm hoping for the former.
Unfortunately, we've also got a good chunk of politicians against us- some Democrats, such as Joe Lieberman, favor censorship of violent games because of their pacifist tendancies, and I'm willing to bet that Republicans will quickly pick up the cause in another moral crusade-type deal. The worst part of this is that pundits with undying allegiances will form a direct mind-meld between the said politicians and the average Fox/CNN/MSNBC viewer.
Also, evil as this tactic may sound, video game corporations don't have enough lobbyists/connections/leverage in Washington. Hollywood, while already moderately regulated, keeps itself from being fully censored because they have money, they're popular, and they're <i>loud</i>. We're just loud over the internet.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Your stance on The Sims 2 is, too say the least, way out of line. I,
and many other people, have seen this gamespot article.
(http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/22/news_6129609.html) First, I'm
going to pick apart your article and explain to you why your wrong.
"Sims 2, the latest version of the Sims video game franchise ...
contains, according to video game news sites, full frontal nudity,
including nipples, penises, labia, and pubic hair."
Hmm, maybe if you actually took your time to research, you would find
that, in fact, that is not the case. You even contradict yourself on
that point. Here is a quote from you in that same article just at the
bottom of the page.
"The blur is an admission that even the 'Ken and Barbie' features
should not be displayed."
OK, so you have just said that the body's in Sims 2 don't actually
contain "Nipples, penises, labia, and pubic hair" (as you said) but
feature...flat surfaces. Why the lies, Jack, why the lies? Why did you
lie in your previous statement?
Here is another quote from you in that article:
"The nudity placed there by the publisher/maker, Electronic Arts, is
accessed by the use of a simple code that removes what is called 'the
blur' which obscures the genital areas. In other words, the game was
released to the public by the manufacturer knowing that the full
frontal nudity was resident on the game and would be accessed by use
of a simple code widely provided on the Internet."
Correct me if I'm wrong (and I don't believe I am), but doesn't full
frontal nudity, among other things, contain penises, ****'s,
nipples, etc?
So, again. You have lied. Call it what you want, it's a lie. If you
think that Ken and Barby features don't belong in a Game rated T for
teen, then you should also be going after Mattel for making a doll
that is marketed to kids under 5 that have the same features,
shouldn't you?
And if your looking out for the good of the community, as you say you
do, shouldn't you go after the makers of said doll? I mean, they have
a much broader appeal, and they appeal to younger audiences. If you
were really looking out for the good of the people you should go after
then first.
Let me ask you something, Jack. Did you play the Sims 2 in depth? I'm
not talking for 15 minutes so you can test out your ludicrous
accusations, i mean playing the game for more than 2 or 3 hours for
the purpose of having fun, instead of picking apart the game? If you
didn't, then you should.
Now, if by now you figured out that all I'm doing is pointing out your
mistakes and technicalities, then your right. That's exactly what i
did. However, let me point out that none, or at least very few, of
those would have been there had your accusations been true. However,
as i have proved, there not.
I'm expecting a reply for this email. And not the usual cookie-cutter
reply either.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can anyone verify this for me? It would be incredible if it were true.
I should tell you people, perhaps some of you have even heard about this before...
Do any of you remember a novelty story of sorts about a man who was being orally pleasured by his girlfriend and she went psycho and bit off his unmentionables and spit them out their 3rd story window into rush hour traffic?
That was Jack Tompson.
Who was severely injured in a car crash due to a certain unsightly obstruction splattering all over his windshield.
He hasn’t been quite right since. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
you know about some creepy things
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Jack Thompson,
I am writing this email to inform you of some very incorrect statements made on your website, <a href='http://www.StopKill.com' target='_blank'>http://www.StopKill.com</a>. Please note that this email is not meant to attack you personally or harrass you.
You state that video games cause children to become violent and teach them how to be violent. I disagree with you there. Here are some of the incorrect statements I found on your website, and my corrections:
"This game allows you to train yourself to kill people by placing plastic bags over their heads while you watch them struggle while suffocating."
Manhunt does not train you to kill. Pressing a button and causing the character to place a virtual bag over a virtual character's head does not teach you how to place the bag over their head, nor does it teach you how to keep it there until the victim suffocates. I would also like to note that the character is not, in fact, a real person that is suffocating but rather, a 3D model and an AI routine that responds to a certain factor.
"You may know someone harmed by someone addicted to violent entertainment who copycatted that violence."
If someone copied violence that they saw on television, the blame falls on the parents for not teaching the child that it is wrong to hurt others, and that video games are merely fantasy.
"The incredibly violent Grand Theft Auto: Vice City, made by Take-Two Interactive of New York City, has caused multiple copycat killings across the country."
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City was, in fact, made by Rockstar Games and PUBLISHED by Take-Two Interactive.
"In this game you have sex with a prostitute and then kill her grotesquely to get your money back and win the game faster. Police officers are set on fire, shotgunned in the face, and innocent pedestrians are run over with cars."
Note that these are POSSIBLE choices. You are completely free to do this, but you are also completely free to be a law-abiding citizen that hurts nobody. I would like to question the amount of time you have spent playing or observing this game, if any, as you have a poor understanding of the mechanics of the game.
"In April 1999, eight days before Columbine, Jack Thompson appeared on national television to identify the role that shooter video games, specifically Doom, would play in future school shootings. A week later in Littleton, Colorado, Klebold and Harris, who obsessively trained on Doom, killed thirteen."
I mean no disrespect towards the victims of this attack, but Klebold and Harris did NOT train on the video game DOOM. Once again, I would like to question your understanding of the mechanics of this gane, as well. To suggest that they learned how to kill by playing DOOM would be like suggesting that a young man learned how to fly by observing a flock of birds. They merely enjoyed playing the game.
"Jack Thompson predicted, in an interview by Matt Lauer on NBC's Today show three weeks before the Beltway Snipers were apprehended, that one of the snipers "might very well be a video gamer as young as 15 trained on a game switched to sniper-mode or God-mode.""
And again, a poor understanding of the game in question is evident. Halo is a science fiction first-person shooting game. It is not, in any way, able to train anyone on the mechanics of operating a rifle, and it is certainly not able to assist their aiming ability. Also, "God-mode" is a mode where the player's character is unable to be killed. That is the only way it effects the game.
"I am trying to protect our freedoms."
That is incorrect. You are trying to limit the freedom of artists to create their work.
Video games cannot train children to kill, as they are simply not a bit like reality. The weapons and the environment do not accurately resemble their real life counterparts, it is incredibly simplified. The process of moving the mouse or joystick in order to point a crosshair in the center of the screen at a virtual character and then pressing a button to fire is absolutely nothing like firing a real weapon.
They also can not make children violent, if their parents have taught them properly. Learning the difference between fantasy and reality is incredibly important, and it is the parent's fault if the child does not learn this. It is entirely possible for the child to learn this at a young age.
Video games, however, MAY trigger people with already-existing psychological issues to become violent. However, that does not make for a case against video games, as absolutely anything can be a trigger.
Thank you for your time, I would appreciate it if you would take my points in to consideration.
- Chris Forrester<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can anyone verify this for me? It would be incredible if it were true. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The reality is that crimnals do not play games.
if you could please post his reply to your email, I'm interested in seeing his reply although I doubt it will be any different that the others I have seen.
people probably wont take you seriously if they see you spell "you are" your instead of you're.. or "barby" instead of barbie especially when its quoted in the email <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And even if making a game character naked by a mod is a crime, why is it they are blaming the game and NOT the modder who did it?
I can't believe Jack Thompson has this much leverage and yet can be so damn stubborn. He updates his statement saying
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Thompson this afternoon updated his earlier statement, saying he is aware certain mods only remove "the blur," but adds that "Electronic Arts has done nothing about this." Thompson's new conclusion: EA is "cooperating, gleefully, with the mod community to turn Sims 2 into a porn offering."<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So now because game companies don't block out mods, game companies are automatically supporting the mod??? If Jack goes on this way, game modding is going to the pits with game companoes banning mods.
There was once this news about DOA: Beach Volleyball. When someone modded a naked mod for it on the Xbox, the game developers quickly made all attempts to stop it. I thought it was ridiculuous but sad that soon it might be an everyday occurance if Jack Thompson is not stopped now.
That took me like ten minutes to write. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Remove the quotes, and it shrinks to half the size that it looks to be.
I'll post the reply, though. Possibly toss back another mocking email, disguised under a sea of professional wording and such.
He should have attacked UT2004, HL2 or Morrowind next. He'd have a chance at acctually making a case in those titles.
We'll not see him for 2-3 months mind while he "complies his report" (hits level 60). <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Then he'll have forgotten why he played WOW for that length of time,and move on to targeting Winnie the Pooh and the Teletubbie games.
or "***** ******* **********"
I mean it's quite obvious he has forsaken any sanity he had long ago; the most we can hope for is to hurt what’s left of his deadened feelings.
He should have attacked UT2004, HL2 or Morrowind next. He'd have a chance at acctually making a case in those titles. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hadn't thought of that actually, but it's a good point. If anyone in the game world has the ability (and the will) to stand up to something like this, it's gonna be EA. Which is good.
But guys, seriously, do not waste your time on Jack Thompson. At best you'll get an insulting and berating mail back about how he's your worst nightmare and will crush the industry.
You want to make a difference? Mail Hilary Clinton or Leland Yee. Tell them about yourself. Tell them you're an avid gamer. Tell them you're concerned about the potential of federal regulation. If you can, mention that your parents are involved in what you play, but don't use generic anecdotal (i.e. "I'm not violent or a killer!") tales (which are worthless) unless it helps a point mentioned in this next barrage:
In particular, talk about the mod community. Talk about the friends you've made all over the world. Talk about how, if you create content for games, it challenges your creative and technical knowledge. Emphasize that it is not 'hackers' doing this as the media suggests. Talk about how you worry about Jack Thompson's latest barrage and that people will target well-meaning amateur developers in the name of stopping a few lame nudie mods. Tell them you worry if games start being judged by the content that 3rd-party users can create, companies may cease shipping editors and SDKs and the like. Hell, if applicable, tell them your mod development work keeps you off the street or away from drugs or something. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> I mean, when other kids my age in high school and college were out getting drunk, stoned, and laid, I was playing games and making maps and having the time of my life.
Also perhaps mention to Hilary that you'll be voting in 2008 <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
When you listen to more than just snippets of these two, they have some very intelligent thoughts and are not 'out to get' the industry as a whole. There are some misplaced feelings, but when they come down to it, the big concern is making sure the ratings system is enforced. Which it is, but voluntarily.
Hilary has floated ideas in the past for a unified ratings system for TV, movies, and games. This is an excellent idea. People in Europe sometimes mock us for our silly mix of TV-14, PG-13, T, etc. etc. It's no wonder people get confused, and given people's perceptions of gaming as kids-only, it's no wonder that parents who don't know any better buy their kids GTA and get shocked at what they find. I think <i>this</i> is the answer, not a federal mandate. No major entertainment industry is regulated by the government and it's particularly important as gaming crawls up from its fledgling status into a multi-billion dollar industry that this doesn't happen now.