Shamans are overrated. I've truly never seen them do anything special, and they're a boring class to play.
My hunter alt has killed two shamen who were 7 levels over it in its lifetime...still prefer my troll mage for PvP, though. Destroys everything it comes across.
And anyone who complains about hunters in PvP is just...wow. Hunters have so many ways to cripple their enemies and kite them to death it's astounding. 41 yard ranged attacks. FOURTY-ONE YARDS. Combine that with concussive shot and a chance to stun on it, wingclip, their stings, etc, they turn out very nasty in smart hands.
<!--QuoteBegin-Testament+Jul 26 2005, 11:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Testament @ Jul 26 2005, 11:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And anyone who complains about hunters in PvP is just...wow. Hunters have so many ways to cripple their enemies and kite them to death it's astounding. 41 yard ranged attacks. FOURTY-ONE YARDS. Combine that with concussive shot and a chance to stun on it, wingclip, their stings, etc, they turn out very nasty in smart hands. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Apart from the fact that its easy for every class to cross that 41 yard range, get in melee and stop you from getting back into range, where most of your damage is made. Wing clip? Yeah, its nice, but everyone else has a similar ability, or a full root. Only real chance is because of Scatter shots lack of a deadzone, means you can fire it in melee, aspect of cheetah to get away, turn around and concussive shot again. Hunters just don't do well in PvP.
Also remember that with talents, wing clip is a full root as well, though. Not to mention, as you said Scatter Shot, which if you're going to be any kind of ranged damage, you'll probably be going far enough down Marksmanship for it. And that's only on a 30 second cooldown. It's not exactly EASY to cover 36 yards as you're eating conc shot, arcane shot, at least one sting (a hunter duo is nasty as hell, too), and possibly regular shots. Also note that they can have Aspect of the Cheetah on for kiting. It's not difficult to switch Aspects during a fight for the situation.
As far as I remember, the furthest reaching damaging spell is also 41 yards with talents, and that's Fireball. Three second cast. I've done, recieved, and seen amazing things with/from hunters who didn't just give up and go "omglol im imbalanced i cant win."
"Only real chance is because of Scatter shots lack of a deadzone, means you can fire it in melee, aspect of cheetah to get away, turn around and concussive shot again. Hunters just don't do well in PvP."
And that's bad why? They can close to melee range and you get ANOTHER chance to blast them with a confuse and back off to continue kiting.
I cant wait until I respec protection with my orc. As soon as I reviewed the warrior pro talents (I had a 45 undead warrior who I rerolled orc, mind you it was for looks and to build tradeskills from step one -- I hate grinding!) I couldnt wait to shred a rogue or two.
Paladin does need a lot of work. Their talent trees need to be reworked and their DPS needs to be controllable instead of a number generator and a plee to lady luck. I dont like going up against an organized defense with a paladin in it, though. They're pretty damn good on holding a defensive line.
Shaman need a melee tweak slightly. Windfury is one of the biggest flaws in their design, its far too powerful. Everything else isnt as bad as everyone makes it out to be...
-
Racial attributes: Dwarves need to have theirs not slow them down at all, period, and take away the armor increasing part of the skill.
Gnomes need to have a non-inturruptable, <i>short</i> cast time. Having it instant would be horrid. Although this can be compaired to WoTF, similer yet it counters more snares than a fear, and the snare doesnt move them away from the caster (... yet that bug needs to be fixed with fear this patch!!! ARGH!).
Human's perception is almost fine.. the whole design flaw with not knowing the rogue is there in the first place needs to be worked around. I say just increase the range slightly and lower the cooldown, encouraging players to use it more often.
Night Elves' shadowmeld is an extremely powerful ability if used in a small, coordinated group in open field PvP. Powerful ambushes that catch your enemies with their pants buckled around their ankles certainly give them the upper hand if its used correctally, anyone that says different is crazy. It might not give you any bonuses immediatly in the current battle, but when it comes to preperation it is a priceless ability.
I'm also glad that WoTF got a nerf. Way too powerful and warriors were unstoppable, WoTF as soon as you're feared, kick on berzerkers rage eight seconds after its course has been run. Waaay too easy. Five seconds is finally balanced!
-
Erm, PvP servers. They are hardly as bad as everyone says they are. When you hit level 30 - 35, you're home free as long as you grab a group to quest. Not only do you finish quests faster and because of the quest exp you <i>do</i> level faster dispite the divided mob exp, its extremely easy to handle any level above you that comes along to gank you. Unless its a paladin. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Not to say they're a powerful steam tank engine, but those guys have the ability to wipe an entire party of players easy just because of their damage absorption and shields. Bastards!
Anyways, PvP servers are fine. Groups are needed -- stop soloing! (yay for long sloppy post)
<!--QuoteBegin-Metalcat+Jul 26 2005, 03:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Metalcat @ Jul 26 2005, 03:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Bosnian Cowboy+Jul 26 2005, 05:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bosnian Cowboy @ Jul 26 2005, 05:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm playing a Shaman right now. Most people consider them to be overpowered, but that isn't really true. They're generally good against every class in PvP but there isn't really no class they just automatically win against, except maybe the weaker classes that are obviously flawed in PvP situations like Warlocks and Hunters. They're not the kings of the hill they're just very efficient in a lot of situations. While other classes just plain suck in some and are great in others. For example, a frost mage can simply destroy a warrior, but when that mage (or any mage for that matter) comes up against a demonology warlock with a felhunter out, that mage is taking a very painful tour of smackdown city. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> this is not true, if you lose to a mage while playing shaman you are noob, earthshock > everything a mage has <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It doesn't even compare to the beating a mage takes from a demonology warlock with a felhunter our. Not even close. 60 resistances to all. GG. Plus mages have an instant fire blast and frost nova and a talent which can make any of their spells with cast times an instant. So earthshock can be worked around, especially since it has a 6 second cooldown so if they're in trouble and you earthshock on of their fire spells they can just come back with poly and set your **** up for a good one. Plus mage armor gives them resistances so earthshock can be resisted, so the shaman better hope his windfury steps in.
NarfwakJoin Date: 2002-11-02Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
<!--QuoteBegin-Bosnian Cowboy+Jul 27 2005, 01:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bosnian Cowboy @ Jul 27 2005, 01:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Metalcat+Jul 26 2005, 03:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Metalcat @ Jul 26 2005, 03:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Bosnian Cowboy+Jul 26 2005, 05:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bosnian Cowboy @ Jul 26 2005, 05:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm playing a Shaman right now. Most people consider them to be overpowered, but that isn't really true. They're generally good against every class in PvP but there isn't really no class they just automatically win against, except maybe the weaker classes that are obviously flawed in PvP situations like Warlocks and Hunters. They're not the kings of the hill they're just very efficient in a lot of situations. While other classes just plain suck in some and are great in others. For example, a frost mage can simply destroy a warrior, but when that mage (or any mage for that matter) comes up against a demonology warlock with a felhunter out, that mage is taking a very painful tour of smackdown city. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> this is not true, if you lose to a mage while playing shaman you are noob, earthshock > everything a mage has <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It doesn't even compare to the beating a mage takes from a demonology warlock with a felhunter our. Not even close. 60 resistances to all. GG. Plus mages have an instant fire blast and frost nova and a talent which can make any of their spells with cast times an instant. So earthshock can be worked around, especially since it has a 6 second cooldown so if they're in trouble and you earthshock on of their fire spells they can just come back with poly and set your **** up for a good one. Plus mage armor gives them resistances so earthshock can be resisted, so the shaman better hope his windfury steps in. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> . . .
No.
Have you even played a mage? Jesus. Just to fill you in, the elemental combat tree gives you most of our really good talents with fewer points costs and easier paths. How can you complain about Presence of Mind when a shaman can have the option of doing the same thing with a heal or chain lightning, and can use another talent that gives them a crit on it as well? How can you complain about a PoM fireball or pyroblast when earthshock does nearly as much damage, stops spellcasting, and has a tiny cooldown?
And mage armor? That's fifteen points. That means f***-all. The only reason anyone uses it is for the mana regen, and that's a PvE advantage.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->. Most people consider them to be overpowered, but that isn't really true.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nononono, you see, most people consider them overpowered because it REALLY IS TRUE. There is undeniable amounts of favoritism linked to the Shaman class and it is shown in EVERYTHING they have.
Lets look over the ending of a certain battle I had with a shaman.
I had been farming in a temple in Azshara. A nice shammy comes up and decides to attack me. Long story short, I get my **** handed to me, but I manage to get away.. or so I thought. I did what any rogue would do in the situation of getting my **** handed to me. I vanished and ran. My escape route was to jump off the bridge to the temple, into the water below and then under the bridge. Note the drop was at least 40 yards.
The shamans respose? Chain lightining a mob on the bridge.
Now, explain to me this. How is it not over powered when you can kill someone who you can not see or target? Now, what if you could see them, but you couldn't get line of sight on them, yet you can still kill them. Now of course the kicker. How about if you can see them, can get line of sight, but they aren't in range for any of your attacks.. And yet, as a shaman, you still are able to kill them, regardless of the fact that against any other class they would have had made a perfect getaway.
Lets look at some other things that point to Shaman favoritism.
Now, a number of classes get certain abilities that improve their mobility. Hunters get Aspect of the Cheetah, giving them 30% speed increase but will daze them if hit and later get Aspect of the pack at 40 allowing them to extend the increase to their entire party. Druids get Travel form at 30, giving them a 40% speed increase, but cripples their attack power. Shamen get Ghost wolf a 40% speed increase, at level 20 (Unlike druids) That has no disadvantages (Unlike hunters) and can still manage to hit pretty damn hard (Unlike druids again) Also, unlike the druid forms, Ghost wolf has a couple of specialized emote animations, including a cute dance. Favoritism? No. <b>NEVER.</b>
and thats just the mobility side of things. Lets look at the melee side. For a warrior or a rogue to get ONE extra attack, we have to spend 5 talent points for a 6% chance that only applies to swords. Shamen get a 20% chance to hit TWO extra times, with an extra 665 attack power (more than my rogue has RANGED attack power, Which she happens to have a lot of since I get 2 per agility and guess what rogues main stat is? oh, and the ap bonus of Windfury can be improved by 22% for a whole 2 talent points, bringing it up to "omgWTHpwn") Now, if that wasn't enough. They also get Bloodlust. A wonderful spell that allows them to increase their attack power by 50% for a minute.
Now, for a rogue (The supposed "Fast and furious" damage class) to get a 50% increase in attack power, they need both slice and dice and blade flurry (A talent 21 points into Combat) and even then it only lasts for 15 seconds.. assuming the slice and dice was a 3 point finsher.
Warriors, well. They get nothing as nice as that. And pallys have to sacrifice damage to increase attack speed with Seal of the Crusader.
Oh, and windfury and Bloodlust can be used at the same time. <3
On the damaged basted caster side of shamen, well. Sheilds and mail. Mages, warlocks and shadow priests would kill for sheilds and mail. Not to mention the ability to "omgWTHpwn" in melee. But thats just not how things turn out. Sure, Pallys get plate and sheilds, but their only offensive spell is Consecration, a weak DOT/AOE. and since pallys have no range, you can simply step away to avoid it.
On the healer side of things, well.. Shamen can both self res and ressurect others. and its not even a cool down res such as druids combat res. Its a normal res, no cool down, no reagents required. For any other healer class you would require a warlock to soul stone them for them to be able to self res and ressurect others.. but since you require the help of someone else, its not really much of a "self res". Their actual heals don't really matter since this ability is invaulable and hell, they already can do nice melee and magical damage. But from what I can see, their heals are on the heels of priests (Excuse the pun)
<!--QuoteBegin-Testament+Jul 26 2005, 11:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Testament @ Jul 26 2005, 11:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Also remember that with talents, wing clip is a full root as well, though. Not to mention, as you said Scatter Shot, which if you're going to be any kind of ranged damage, you'll probably be going far enough down Marksmanship for it. And that's only on a 30 second cooldown. It's not exactly EASY to cover 36 yards as you're eating conc shot, arcane shot, at least one sting (a hunter duo is nasty as hell, too), and possibly regular shots. Also note that they can have Aspect of the Cheetah on for kiting. It's not difficult to switch Aspects during a fight for the situation.
As far as I remember, the furthest reaching damaging spell is also 41 yards with talents, and that's Fireball. Three second cast. I've done, recieved, and seen amazing things with/from hunters who didn't just give up and go "omglol im imbalanced i cant win."
"Only real chance is because of Scatter shots lack of a deadzone, means you can fire it in melee, aspect of cheetah to get away, turn around and concussive shot again. Hunters just don't do well in PvP."
And that's bad why? They can close to melee range and you get ANOTHER chance to blast them with a confuse and back off to continue kiting. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 1) No Hunter should be spending points in survival. It sucks. 2) Conc shot is 4 second stun. Not a huge change in anyones speed really. Once it goes, the cooldown isn't long enough to get another shot off and stop them getting into melee range. 3) Furthest reaching spell means nothing. All mages I've seen blink in, frost nova, then stand in your dead zone and nuke you. 4) Its bad because it means its just going to happen all over again. 4 second confusion isn't enough to build up a decent range.
<!--QuoteBegin-Narfwak+Jul 26 2005, 11:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Narfwak @ Jul 26 2005, 11:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Bosnian Cowboy+Jul 27 2005, 01:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bosnian Cowboy @ Jul 27 2005, 01:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Metalcat+Jul 26 2005, 03:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Metalcat @ Jul 26 2005, 03:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Bosnian Cowboy+Jul 26 2005, 05:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bosnian Cowboy @ Jul 26 2005, 05:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm playing a Shaman right now. Most people consider them to be overpowered, but that isn't really true. They're generally good against every class in PvP but there isn't really no class they just automatically win against, except maybe the weaker classes that are obviously flawed in PvP situations like Warlocks and Hunters. They're not the kings of the hill they're just very efficient in a lot of situations. While other classes just plain suck in some and are great in others. For example, a frost mage can simply destroy a warrior, but when that mage (or any mage for that matter) comes up against a demonology warlock with a felhunter out, that mage is taking a very painful tour of smackdown city. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> this is not true, if you lose to a mage while playing shaman you are noob, earthshock > everything a mage has <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It doesn't even compare to the beating a mage takes from a demonology warlock with a felhunter our. Not even close. 60 resistances to all. GG. Plus mages have an instant fire blast and frost nova and a talent which can make any of their spells with cast times an instant. So earthshock can be worked around, especially since it has a 6 second cooldown so if they're in trouble and you earthshock on of their fire spells they can just come back with poly and set your **** up for a good one. Plus mage armor gives them resistances so earthshock can be resisted, so the shaman better hope his windfury steps in. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> . . .
No.
Have you even played a mage? Jesus. Just to fill you in, the elemental combat tree gives you most of our really good talents with fewer points costs and easier paths. How can you complain about Presence of Mind when a shaman can have the option of doing the same thing with a heal or chain lightning, and can use another talent that gives them a crit on it as well? How can you complain about a PoM fireball or pyroblast when earthshock does nearly as much damage, stops spellcasting, and has a tiny cooldown?
And mage armor? That's fifteen points. That means f***-all. The only reason anyone uses it is for the mana regen, and that's a PvE advantage. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Tiny cooldown? Why complain about earthshocks cooldown when you can just spam improved arcane explosion until fireblast comes back up. What about Cone of Cold? Or Blast Wave? Each high cooldown instants but keyword here is...instants. How about the fact that fire blast can be done from 41 yards while Shaman can shock from 20 yards? What about counterspell? Frost Nova! So instead of just saying completely ridiculous things like "earthshock > everything a mage has" maybe try think of a few ways you can improve your playing style. I think you're the noob buddy. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> For being so hostile.
Peoples problem is they give up so easily. I've won fights I never should have just by standing my ground and fighting, instead of screaming about imbalance problems. I've loved all the "bad" classes like hunters and mages for PvP, and found shamans completely and utterly boring.
If you do not think Shamans are overpowered, look at when Blizzard held that honor tourney thing, (think it involved something with ATI), the majority of horde that won first place on their servers were *shock* a shaman - guess how many pallys won first for alliance - zero.
Also (gtg really quickly in order to catch the buss to avoid the rain) if you are not conviced - level a shaman to 60 and watch how you can kill anything. Playing a shaman is boring - because you have no weaknesses.
<!--QuoteBegin-SentrySteve+Jul 27 2005, 01:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SentrySteve @ Jul 27 2005, 01:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you do not think Shamans are overpowered, look at when Blizzard held that honor tourney thing, (think it involved something with ATI), the majority of horde that won first place on their servers were *shock* a shaman - guess how many pallys won first for alliance - zero.
Also (gtg really quickly in order to catch the buss to avoid the rain) if you are not conviced - level a shaman to 60 and watch how you can kill anything. Playing a shaman is boring - because you have no weaknesses. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think the number of mages and rogues that won was like four times the shaman.
NarfwakJoin Date: 2002-11-02Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
<!--QuoteBegin-Bosnian Cowboy+Jul 27 2005, 02:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bosnian Cowboy @ Jul 27 2005, 02:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Tiny cooldown? Why complain about earthshocks cooldown when you can just spam improved arcane explosion until fireblast comes back up. What about Cone of Cold? Or Blast Wave? Each high cooldown instants but keyword here is...instants. How about the fact that fire blast can be done from 41 yards while Shaman can shock from 20 yards? What about counterspell? Frost Nova! So instead of just saying completely ridiculous things like "earthshock > everything a mage has" maybe try think of a few ways you can improve your playing style. I think you're the noob buddy. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> For being so hostile. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Fireblast is 26 yard range if you have the talent to improve it. Not every mage even has the talent; we're not like hunters who really have only one build. This verifies it - you have not played my class, no do you know the relavent info. You cannot comment on its behaviour, as you don't know what you're talking about.
Now, I'm not complaining about mages - I can destroy just about anything other than a shaman, druid, or priest, and even then I can trash them if I get a few lucky crits - I'm complaining that you don't think shaman are overpowered. They are. It's a fact of life. I don't know why you can't see what so many others feel is so obvious.
Shamans are overpowered, but I don't think in the way people scream about it. It's highly overblown. I've seen people literally give up against a shaman and let them kill them. It's stupid.
(A mage on my server won for Horde side, and our Warlord is a warrior. ;o)
NarfwakJoin Date: 2002-11-02Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
It's true. You can beat a shaman. It's just . . . harder. I feel the same degree of disgust when I see players give up in PvP encounters (alliance do it more than horde on our server - I swear, our players are just trash). As for honor rank . . . that's more about organization and time investment than class. In fact, it really has nothing to do with your class at all.
In my experience, a Shaman will comparatively kick all kinds of arse up to a certain point (read: level). Thing like the earthbind totem are really pretty game-breaking when you get them at level six but not so game-breaking when the person you're using it on has an actual means to fight back.
A person whom I played with, a real-life friend of mine, played a shaman. Still does. At any rate, as a druid my survival quota was far greater, simply because I had better buffs and better heals and more hp and more mana. Sure he could kill things more quickly than I could but he wouldn't last nearly as long. Shamans really aren't invincible - that's just a myth perpetuated by jealous alliance players <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I just gotta admit, though - the ghost wolf form is totally lame. When I played a druid, I generally played with that friend of mine. Truth is, when he got his wolf form ten levels before I got my travel form, it tended to trivialize any sort of joy I felt when I reached level thirty because, well, by that point my travel form wasn't so much a cool new ability as it was an <i>I can finally keep up</i> sort of thing.
Dubbilex u ever seen the Barrens? I feel sorry for anyone who doesn't have a speed buff in there. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> But I'll admit the Ghost Wolf 1-sec cast is a bit lame,but then it's only good if no freeze effects can be cast at you.
gah try being a low lvl alliance in STV EVERY time i have gone down to STV for more than 2 hours horde was raiding the hunters camp at least at some point. and quite a few times the horde has taken control of booty bay and gadgetzan. our lvl 60s seem to be quite lazy, in all my time in IF ive yet to see more than a couple of raids put together. most of which have just been to SS. All we ever do is battle grounds (in which we cream the horde each time (alterac))
What do you guys think about the professions? I have a level 47 Hunter with Mining at 273 and Engineering at 275. Engineering has got to be the best profession ever, especially with the Gnomish Death Ray. It's done 2000 damage in one hit, and that wasn't even a critical. I've killed Alliance in PvP in one hit, it was absolutely hilarious.
And how can you say that the Survival tree sucks? Have you even tried improved wing clip?
The only problem I have with the game is when I get into groups with a bunch of idiots that don't know how to play their class, like a priest deciding it's boring to heal so he fights and gets everyone else killed.
A lvl 35 undead priest miner engineer on bloodscalp
For some reason, people ignore me while trying to gank my friends... throw a couple dots on them, fear them, shield/heal my tanks, and no more gankers <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Plus engineering is nice so I can deal a bit of damage without using mana.
<!--QuoteBegin-Thaldarin+Jul 21 2005, 09:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thaldarin @ Jul 21 2005, 09:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you have no girlfriend, social life, job or school and you live on your pc I'd recommend you buy WoW.
If you have any of the above and want to keep them do not play WoW <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
In all seriousness I've not played it but lots of people recommend it to me. So I say go for it and buy it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> i have
a job
a social life
a fiancee
i still am pr0 <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> then again, ive never had a char to level 60..... so maybe im not quite leet enough.
<!--QuoteBegin-Testament+Jul 28 2005, 09:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Testament @ Jul 28 2005, 09:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Haha, Mullet. My 37 rogue and 30 mage are on Dragonmaw. Selvetarm and Shinaldi. I need to note down your names and corpsecamp you. Out of love. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Noes my 50 priest will smite you!
Comments
My hunter alt has killed two shamen who were 7 levels over it in its lifetime...still prefer my troll mage for PvP, though. Destroys everything it comes across.
And anyone who complains about hunters in PvP is just...wow. Hunters have so many ways to cripple their enemies and kite them to death it's astounding. 41 yard ranged attacks. FOURTY-ONE YARDS. Combine that with concussive shot and a chance to stun on it, wingclip, their stings, etc, they turn out very nasty in smart hands.
Apart from the fact that its easy for every class to cross that 41 yard range, get in melee and stop you from getting back into range, where most of your damage is made. Wing clip? Yeah, its nice, but everyone else has a similar ability, or a full root. Only real chance is because of Scatter shots lack of a deadzone, means you can fire it in melee, aspect of cheetah to get away, turn around and concussive shot again. Hunters just don't do well in PvP.
As far as I remember, the furthest reaching damaging spell is also 41 yards with talents, and that's Fireball. Three second cast. I've done, recieved, and seen amazing things with/from hunters who didn't just give up and go "omglol im imbalanced i cant win."
"Only real chance is because of Scatter shots lack of a deadzone, means you can fire it in melee, aspect of cheetah to get away, turn around and concussive shot again. Hunters just don't do well in PvP."
And that's bad why? They can close to melee range and you get ANOTHER chance to blast them with a confuse and back off to continue kiting.
Paladin does need a lot of work. Their talent trees need to be reworked and their DPS needs to be controllable instead of a number generator and a plee to lady luck. I dont like going up against an organized defense with a paladin in it, though. They're pretty damn good on holding a defensive line.
Shaman need a melee tweak slightly. Windfury is one of the biggest flaws in their design, its far too powerful. Everything else isnt as bad as everyone makes it out to be...
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Racial attributes: Dwarves need to have theirs not slow them down at all, period, and take away the armor increasing part of the skill.
Gnomes need to have a non-inturruptable, <i>short</i> cast time. Having it instant would be horrid. Although this can be compaired to WoTF, similer yet it counters more snares than a fear, and the snare doesnt move them away from the caster (... yet that bug needs to be fixed with fear this patch!!! ARGH!).
Human's perception is almost fine.. the whole design flaw with not knowing the rogue is there in the first place needs to be worked around. I say just increase the range slightly and lower the cooldown, encouraging players to use it more often.
Night Elves' shadowmeld is an extremely powerful ability if used in a small, coordinated group in open field PvP. Powerful ambushes that catch your enemies with their pants buckled around their ankles certainly give them the upper hand if its used correctally, anyone that says different is crazy. It might not give you any bonuses immediatly in the current battle, but when it comes to preperation it is a priceless ability.
I'm also glad that WoTF got a nerf. Way too powerful and warriors were unstoppable, WoTF as soon as you're feared, kick on berzerkers rage eight seconds after its course has been run. Waaay too easy. Five seconds is finally balanced!
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Erm, PvP servers. They are hardly as bad as everyone says they are. When you hit level 30 - 35, you're home free as long as you grab a group to quest. Not only do you finish quests faster and because of the quest exp you <i>do</i> level faster dispite the divided mob exp, its extremely easy to handle any level above you that comes along to gank you. Unless its a paladin. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Not to say they're a powerful steam tank engine, but those guys have the ability to wipe an entire party of players easy just because of their damage absorption and shields. Bastards!
Anyways, PvP servers are fine. Groups are needed -- stop soloing! (yay for long sloppy post)
this is not true, if you lose to a mage while playing shaman you are noob, earthshock > everything a mage has <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It doesn't even compare to the beating a mage takes from a demonology warlock with a felhunter our. Not even close. 60 resistances to all. GG. Plus mages have an instant fire blast and frost nova and a talent which can make any of their spells with cast times an instant. So earthshock can be worked around, especially since it has a 6 second cooldown so if they're in trouble and you earthshock on of their fire spells they can just come back with poly and set your **** up for a good one. Plus mage armor gives them resistances so earthshock can be resisted, so the shaman better hope his windfury steps in.
this is not true, if you lose to a mage while playing shaman you are noob, earthshock > everything a mage has <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It doesn't even compare to the beating a mage takes from a demonology warlock with a felhunter our. Not even close. 60 resistances to all. GG. Plus mages have an instant fire blast and frost nova and a talent which can make any of their spells with cast times an instant. So earthshock can be worked around, especially since it has a 6 second cooldown so if they're in trouble and you earthshock on of their fire spells they can just come back with poly and set your **** up for a good one. Plus mage armor gives them resistances so earthshock can be resisted, so the shaman better hope his windfury steps in. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
. . .
No.
Have you even played a mage? Jesus. Just to fill you in, the elemental combat tree gives you most of our really good talents with fewer points costs and easier paths. How can you complain about Presence of Mind when a shaman can have the option of doing the same thing with a heal or chain lightning, and can use another talent that gives them a crit on it as well? How can you complain about a PoM fireball or pyroblast when earthshock does nearly as much damage, stops spellcasting, and has a tiny cooldown?
And mage armor? That's fifteen points. That means f***-all. The only reason anyone uses it is for the mana regen, and that's a PvE advantage.
Nononono, you see, most people consider them overpowered because it REALLY IS TRUE. There is undeniable amounts of favoritism linked to the Shaman class and it is shown in EVERYTHING they have.
Lets look over the ending of a certain battle I had with a shaman.
I had been farming in a temple in Azshara. A nice shammy comes up and decides to attack me. Long story short, I get my **** handed to me, but I manage to get away.. or so I thought. I did what any rogue would do in the situation of getting my **** handed to me. I vanished and ran. My escape route was to jump off the bridge to the temple, into the water below and then under the bridge. Note the drop was at least 40 yards.
The shamans respose? Chain lightining a mob on the bridge.
Now, explain to me this. How is it not over powered when you can kill someone who you can not see or target? Now, what if you could see them, but you couldn't get line of sight on them, yet you can still kill them.
Now of course the kicker. How about if you can see them, can get line of sight, but they aren't in range for any of your attacks..
And yet, as a shaman, you still are able to kill them, regardless of the fact that against any other class they would have had made a perfect getaway.
Lets look at some other things that point to Shaman favoritism.
Now, a number of classes get certain abilities that improve their mobility.
Hunters get Aspect of the Cheetah, giving them 30% speed increase but will daze them if hit and later get Aspect of the pack at 40 allowing them to extend the increase to their entire party.
Druids get Travel form at 30, giving them a 40% speed increase, but cripples their attack power.
Shamen get Ghost wolf a 40% speed increase, at level 20 (Unlike druids) That has no disadvantages (Unlike hunters) and can still manage to hit pretty damn hard (Unlike druids again) Also, unlike the druid forms, Ghost wolf has a couple of specialized emote animations, including a cute dance. Favoritism? No. <b>NEVER.</b>
and thats just the mobility side of things.
Lets look at the melee side.
For a warrior or a rogue to get ONE extra attack, we have to spend 5 talent points for a 6% chance that only applies to swords.
Shamen get a 20% chance to hit TWO extra times, with an extra 665 attack power (more than my rogue has RANGED attack power, Which she happens to have a lot of since I get 2 per agility and guess what rogues main stat is? oh, and the ap bonus of Windfury can be improved by 22% for a whole 2 talent points, bringing it up to "omgWTHpwn")
Now, if that wasn't enough. They also get Bloodlust. A wonderful spell that allows them to increase their attack power by 50% for a minute.
Now, for a rogue (The supposed "Fast and furious" damage class) to get a 50% increase in attack power, they need both slice and dice and blade flurry (A talent 21 points into Combat) and even then it only lasts for 15 seconds.. assuming the slice and dice was a 3 point finsher.
Warriors, well. They get nothing as nice as that. And pallys have to sacrifice damage to increase attack speed with Seal of the Crusader.
Oh, and windfury and Bloodlust can be used at the same time. <3
On the damaged basted caster side of shamen, well. Sheilds and mail. Mages, warlocks and shadow priests would kill for sheilds and mail. Not to mention the ability to "omgWTHpwn" in melee. But thats just not how things turn out.
Sure, Pallys get plate and sheilds, but their only offensive spell is Consecration, a weak DOT/AOE. and since pallys have no range, you can simply step away to avoid it.
On the healer side of things, well.. Shamen can both self res and ressurect others. and its not even a cool down res such as druids combat res. Its a normal res, no cool down, no reagents required.
For any other healer class you would require a warlock to soul stone them for them to be able to self res and ressurect others.. but since you require the help of someone else, its not really much of a "self res". Their actual heals don't really matter since this ability is invaulable and hell, they already can do nice melee and magical damage. But from what I can see, their heals are on the heels of priests (Excuse the pun)
As far as I remember, the furthest reaching damaging spell is also 41 yards with talents, and that's Fireball. Three second cast. I've done, recieved, and seen amazing things with/from hunters who didn't just give up and go "omglol im imbalanced i cant win."
"Only real chance is because of Scatter shots lack of a deadzone, means you can fire it in melee, aspect of cheetah to get away, turn around and concussive shot again. Hunters just don't do well in PvP."
And that's bad why? They can close to melee range and you get ANOTHER chance to blast them with a confuse and back off to continue kiting. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) No Hunter should be spending points in survival. It sucks.
2) Conc shot is 4 second stun. Not a huge change in anyones speed really. Once it goes, the cooldown isn't long enough to get another shot off and stop them getting into melee range.
3) Furthest reaching spell means nothing. All mages I've seen blink in, frost nova, then stand in your dead zone and nuke you.
4) Its bad because it means its just going to happen all over again. 4 second confusion isn't enough to build up a decent range.
this is not true, if you lose to a mage while playing shaman you are noob, earthshock > everything a mage has <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It doesn't even compare to the beating a mage takes from a demonology warlock with a felhunter our. Not even close. 60 resistances to all. GG. Plus mages have an instant fire blast and frost nova and a talent which can make any of their spells with cast times an instant. So earthshock can be worked around, especially since it has a 6 second cooldown so if they're in trouble and you earthshock on of their fire spells they can just come back with poly and set your **** up for a good one. Plus mage armor gives them resistances so earthshock can be resisted, so the shaman better hope his windfury steps in. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
. . .
No.
Have you even played a mage? Jesus. Just to fill you in, the elemental combat tree gives you most of our really good talents with fewer points costs and easier paths. How can you complain about Presence of Mind when a shaman can have the option of doing the same thing with a heal or chain lightning, and can use another talent that gives them a crit on it as well? How can you complain about a PoM fireball or pyroblast when earthshock does nearly as much damage, stops spellcasting, and has a tiny cooldown?
And mage armor? That's fifteen points. That means f***-all. The only reason anyone uses it is for the mana regen, and that's a PvE advantage. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Tiny cooldown? Why complain about earthshocks cooldown when you can just spam improved arcane explosion until fireblast comes back up. What about Cone of Cold? Or Blast Wave? Each high cooldown instants but keyword here is...instants. How about the fact that fire blast can be done from 41 yards while Shaman can shock from 20 yards? What about counterspell? Frost Nova! So instead of just saying completely ridiculous things like "earthshock > everything a mage has" maybe try think of a few ways you can improve your playing style. I think you're the noob buddy. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> For being so hostile.
Also (gtg really quickly in order to catch the buss to avoid the rain) if you are not conviced - level a shaman to 60 and watch how you can kill anything. Playing a shaman is boring - because you have no weaknesses.
Also (gtg really quickly in order to catch the buss to avoid the rain) if you are not conviced - level a shaman to 60 and watch how you can kill anything. Playing a shaman is boring - because you have no weaknesses. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the number of mages and rogues that won was like four times the shaman.
Fireblast is 26 yard range if you have the talent to improve it. Not every mage even has the talent; we're not like hunters who really have only one build. This verifies it - you have not played my class, no do you know the relavent info. You cannot comment on its behaviour, as you don't know what you're talking about.
Now, I'm not complaining about mages - I can destroy just about anything other than a shaman, druid, or priest, and even then I can trash them if I get a few lucky crits - I'm complaining that you don't think shaman are overpowered. They are. It's a fact of life. I don't know why you can't see what so many others feel is so obvious.
(A mage on my server won for Horde side, and our Warlord is a warrior. ;o)
A person whom I played with, a real-life friend of mine, played a shaman. Still does. At any rate, as a druid my survival quota was far greater, simply because I had better buffs and better heals and more hp and more mana. Sure he could kill things more quickly than I could but he wouldn't last nearly as long. Shamans really aren't invincible - that's just a myth perpetuated by jealous alliance players <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I just gotta admit, though - the ghost wolf form is totally lame. When I played a druid, I generally played with that friend of mine. Truth is, when he got his wolf form ten levels before I got my travel form, it tended to trivialize any sort of joy I felt when I reached level thirty because, well, by that point my travel form wasn't so much a cool new ability as it was an <i>I can finally keep up</i> sort of thing.
I feel sorry for anyone who doesn't have a speed buff in there. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But I'll admit the Ghost Wolf 1-sec cast is a bit lame,but then it's only good if no freeze effects can be cast at you.
<span style='font-size:30pt;line-height:100%'>ASPLODE!!</span>
<img src='http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/8937/wowasplode6as.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
And how can you say that the Survival tree sucks? Have you even tried improved wing clip?
The only problem I have with the game is when I get into groups with a bunch of idiots that don't know how to play their class, like a priest deciding it's boring to heal so he fights and gets everyone else killed.
For some reason, people ignore me while trying to gank my friends... throw a couple dots on them, fear them, shield/heal my tanks, and no more gankers <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Plus engineering is nice so I can deal a bit of damage without using mana.
If you have any of the above and want to keep them do not play WoW <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
In all seriousness I've not played it but lots of people recommend it to me. So I say go for it and buy it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i have
a job
a social life
a fiancee
i still am pr0 <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> then again, ive never had a char to level 60..... so maybe im not quite leet enough.
Noes my 50 priest will smite you!