3.1

13

Comments

  • Nemesis_ZeroNemesis_Zero Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    OK, hands up who understood all that <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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  • The_CheatThe_Cheat It&#39;s a The Cheat&#33; Join Date: 2003-11-19 Member: 23191Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Cagey+Aug 3 2005, 01:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cagey @ Aug 3 2005, 01:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Even with a smoothing function the current wall detection would lead to a very jumpy first person roll--walking down a vent could feel like being stuck in an active laudromat machine. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I just imagined this in-game and I literally almost fell out of my chair. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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  • NumbersNotFoundNumbersNotFound Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7556Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Aug 3 2005, 02:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Aug 3 2005, 02:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> OK, hands up who understood all that <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The hard part isn't understanding what he means, the hard part is trying to imagine how to implement that O_o
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  • Jmmsbnd007Jmmsbnd007 Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9793Banned, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Zek+Aug 3 2005, 12:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Aug 3 2005, 12:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-voulge+Aug 3 2005, 04:34 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (voulge @ Aug 3 2005, 04:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-aeroripper+Aug 2 2005, 05:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (aeroripper @ Aug 2 2005, 05:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm interested to see how the new skulk movement stuff works out... i hope you can stay on the walls like in AvP now because its needed that for a long time <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->


    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->O Skulk wallwalk has been improved:
    - Skulks can now vault from walls. When attached to a wall, pressing jump will make the skulk jump in the direction the player is facing.
    - Precision wallwalking: While holding +speed (aka walk) the skulk will stick to walls much more rigorously then before. This makes it possible to navigate difficult architecture.
    - Wallwalk is now disabled when walking on the floor.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    YES YES YES YE YE YE YES!!!!!! omg, the alien wallclimb ability in Avp/2/primal hunt was THE BEST... it gave me such a loopy feeling in my head, and you really DID need the little arrows to tell you which way was up and down (though it really didnt matter because the wallclimb/stick ability was almost flawless, so any surface/edge could be whatever you wanted it to be).

    The NS game needs more of THIS kind of whack'd out awsome cool special effects just to make it cooler and more difficult (skillwize, not tac's). Drop the eyecandy, just get the skulk wallclimb ability right!!! please! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Um, don't get too excited, the skulk view orientation is the same as before. That was attempted way back in 2.0's beta I think and it was determined to be too far difficult to make it work smoothly. The only difference in 3.1 is that you can jump away from a wall, and when walking slowly on a wall you'll stick to it without detaching no matter which direction you look in(sort of like how ladders work). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I don't really like that. It makes it harder to skulk, as you can't finely disconnect yourself from a wall, but rather, you have to jump (and god knows how far away from the marine that will throw you).
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  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    edited August 2005
    <!--QuoteBegin-Cagey+Aug 3 2005, 02:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cagey @ Aug 3 2005, 02:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Max's attempt was pretty straightforward.  It was causing jumpiness because it was constantly adjusting to new active wallwalk surfaces--when you have a skulk in a corner and it's actually potentially touching 3 or 4 walls at sharp angles to each other you can have real issues with the view to jerking around unless you're very careful about how you transition from touch to touch. 

    If you watch another player skulk around complex geometry and see the model orientation jumping around, it's pretty much the same issue.  I want to convert the wall detection code to use volumetric testing for solid objects near the skulk instead of the current raytrace and surface normal tests to smooth things out and get an averaged wall surface instead of point samples, but that's not a trivial project--the real issue for skulk view rotation isn't a lack of ideas, but a lack of implementation time; I don't have the 3-4 weeks of time blocked out that are required for that sort of research.

    My personal ideal view system would be completely unlocked and user driven pitch and yaw coupled with a roll that reorients based on the latest surface data using a dampened exponential decay function for over a year now, but I haven't found time to experiment.  Even with a smoothing function the current wall detection would lead to a very jumpy first person roll--walking down a vent could feel like being stuck in an active laudromat machine.  There are issues with going over +/-90 degrees yaw relative to the surface you're touching, so that may end up being a locked limit with roll automatically compensating if you do something like fall on your back. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Are the pitch limits things that can be set dynamically?

    My thinking involved limiting the surfaces you can wallwalk on to those whose normal has a positive dot product with your up vector (in the openGL sense of being relative to your current view direction) when you were previously on a surface, and keeping it unrestricted otherwise. You can tweak the up vector slightly in the direction opposite the direction that someone is strafing to still allow strafing onto walls. This would cut out the vent case at least, unless you are hopping around a lot.

    How does the current code determine what direction to send the raytrace in?

    Edit: now that I think about it, if I remember correctly the openGL up vector wasn't always orthogonal to your view direction. So replace that in the above with the vector of the direction you strafe when you strafe right crossed with the vector for the direction you are facing.
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  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer
    edited August 2005
    <!--QuoteBegin-JmmsbndZeroZeroSeven+Aug 3 2005, 08:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JmmsbndZeroZeroSeven @ Aug 3 2005, 08:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't really like that. It makes it harder to skulk, as you can't finely disconnect yourself from a wall, but rather, you have to jump (and god knows how far away from the marine that will throw you). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- Precision wallwalking: <b>While holding +speed (aka walk)</b> the skulk will stick to walls much more rigorously then before.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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  • ultranewbultranewb Pro Bug Hunter Join Date: 2004-07-21 Member: 30026Members
    Anyone that played Decent should understand most of it - and all the similar problems and pitfalls of forward/backward/left/right/up/down/clockwise roll/counter-clockwise roll. If it wasn't dissorienting and unintutive, everyone would be pilots and we'd all have flying cars.

    To correctly implement wallwalking - in my opinion - you'd actually have to get away from pre-fabbed animation and go to a realtime calculation where the paws of the model are actually placed on textures, so you could have a skulk with his left paws on the floor and his right paws on the wall. The orientation of the player view would be simple to calculate then. This, however, is still a very process intensive calculation on modern hardware and not something fitting of an almost 8 year old game engine. You need the same calculations used in ragg doll physics to get it done. The wallwalking in Doom 3 looks like what I'm talking about, it - however - looks very prefabbed.
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  • Jmmsbnd007Jmmsbnd007 Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9793Banned, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Mendasp+Aug 3 2005, 02:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mendasp @ Aug 3 2005, 02:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-JmmsbndZeroZeroSeven+Aug 3 2005, 08:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JmmsbndZeroZeroSeven @ Aug 3 2005, 08:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't really like that. It makes it harder to skulk, as you can't finely disconnect yourself from a wall, but rather, you have to jump (and god knows how far away from the marine that will throw you). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- Precision wallwalking: <b>While holding +speed (aka walk)</b> the skulk will stick to walls much more rigorously then before.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yes, but it will still be a balancing act to silently disconnect from the wall without making a footstep noise (and no, I don't want to walk to the bottom of the wall first, if that would even help).
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  • Nemesis_ZeroNemesis_Zero Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    +Duck?
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  • tankefugltankefugl One Script To Rule Them All... Trondheim, Norway Join Date: 2002-11-14 Member: 8641Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited August 2005
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->How does the current code determine what direction to send the raytrace in?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The traces are currently sent upwards NE, SE, SW and NW, and one straight downPretty inexpensive

    The problem with the wallwalk is two-folded, actually. First, there is the actual detection of which walls to climb on to create the resulting surface normal. Then there is the actual projection of movement so that small ledges and variations won't stop a player. This is the hard part, as NS maps have in many cases very complex geometry.

    I doubt we will devote much more time on this before the Source version. The skulk behaves ok now, and you're able to walk around corners and such when you have to now. For Source, we have a bunch of ideas on how to work on it. It still remains to find an inexpensive solution in terms of computional power, though.
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  • CoolCookieCooksCoolCookieCooks Pretty Girl Join Date: 2003-05-18 Member: 16446Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Aug 3 2005, 08:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Aug 3 2005, 08:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> OK, hands up who understood all that <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    /me puts his hand up and runs
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  • StarchyStarchy Join Date: 2003-04-21 Member: 15727Members, Constellation
    the leap off the wall thing sounds neat, good job. I'll have to check it out, looks like a lot of cool changes have taken place in recent months.
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  • joeejoee Join Date: 2005-06-18 Member: 54113Members
    edited August 2005
    eh nevermind
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  • urinalcakeurinalcake Can&#39;t work a sound card United States Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7799Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-XP-Cagey+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (XP-Cagey)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My personal ideal view system would be completely unlocked and user driven pitch and yaw coupled with a roll that reorients based on the latest surface data using a dampened exponential decay function for over a year now, but I haven't found time to experiment.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I'd say I love you Cagey.. but.. ow, head.. hurts.
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  • devicenulldevicenull Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15967Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    <!--QuoteBegin-JmmsbndZeroZeroSeven+Aug 2 2005, 06:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JmmsbndZeroZeroSeven @ Aug 2 2005, 06:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> O Added the ability to toggle off NS's gamma ramp
    Does this mean I can whitewall now with my ATi drivers? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    No, it means I will actually be able to _see_ the game on my x64 system.
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  • joeejoee Join Date: 2005-06-18 Member: 54113Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-devicenull+Aug 3 2005, 04:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (devicenull @ Aug 3 2005, 04:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-JmmsbndZeroZeroSeven+Aug 2 2005, 06:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JmmsbndZeroZeroSeven @ Aug 2 2005, 06:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> O Added the ability to toggle off NS's gamma ramp
    Does this mean I can whitewall now with my ATi drivers? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    No, it means I will actually be able to _see_ the game on my x64 system. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    ok gamma hacker
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  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
    \o/

    No real balance changes though? Like damage or health or speed...
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  • NGENGE Join Date: 2003-11-10 Member: 22443Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-im lost+Aug 3 2005, 01:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (im lost @ Aug 3 2005, 01:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So apparently cloaking shouldn't be fixed then, it should be left so that it is completely effective against some people, partly effective against others, and useless against others. Or maybe it should be removed completely, but then you have to have an upgrade to replace it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    No, cloaking should be 100% invisible while an alien is still, 10% visible when he walks, and 60% visible when he runs.

    No more skill involved in cloaking whatsoever. Either you counter the cloak with an obs or scan or die. Fun for everyone (by everyone I mean the aliens).
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  • puzlpuzl The Old Firm Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
    edited August 2005
    Although we shouldn't rule out the solution you have described NGE, we're going to wait until after the first round of tests to make any decisions.

    So can we make an effort to avoid convincing each other for now, it's going to bore most readers and eventually derail the topic completely.
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  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
    No, they're only 100% cloaked while standing still. That's why it says "blah blah base opacity reduced to 0", rather than "cloaking is now 100% at all times".
    They'll be a bit less visible than previously, but if you could see them before, surely you'll be able to see them if they're 10% less visible?
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  • FreddehFreddeh Join Date: 2003-07-29 Member: 18520Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Aug 3 2005, 11:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Aug 3 2005, 11:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> +Duck? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    nem wins
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  • a_civiliana_civilian Likes seeing numbers Join Date: 2003-01-08 Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
    <!--QuoteBegin-Align+Aug 3 2005, 07:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Align @ Aug 3 2005, 07:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->No, they're only 100% cloaked while standing still. That's why it says "blah blah base opacity reduced to 0", rather than "cloaking is now 100% at all times".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Cloaking provides 100% transparency both while standing still and while walking with +speed.
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  • urinalcakeurinalcake Can&#39;t work a sound card United States Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7799Members
    For some reason, I feel like we'll see more 3.1.x patches than 3.0.x patches :/
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  • Nemesis_ZeroNemesis_Zero Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    And that's a bad thing?
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  • aeroripperaeroripper Join Date: 2005-02-25 Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Cloaking provides 100% transparency both while standing still and while walking with +speed. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    that's the way it should be IMO
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  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited August 2005
    <!--QuoteBegin-a civilian+Aug 3 2005, 08:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (a civilian @ Aug 3 2005, 08:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Cloaking provides 100% transparency both while standing still and while walking with +speed. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Also while inside a sensory chamber.

    If you guys think it's overpowered, feel free to sign up for Constellation and prove it to us <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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  • Jmmsbnd007Jmmsbnd007 Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9793Banned, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Zek+Aug 3 2005, 10:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Aug 3 2005, 10:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-a civilian+Aug 3 2005, 08:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (a civilian @ Aug 3 2005, 08:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Cloaking provides 100% transparency both while standing still and while walking with +speed. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Also while inside a sensory chamber.

    If you guys think it's overpowered, feel free to sign up for Constellation and prove it to us <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    ...
    You can bunnyhop at someone full speed while invisible?
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  • Jmmsbnd007Jmmsbnd007 Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9793Banned, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Freddeh+Aug 3 2005, 06:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Freddeh @ Aug 3 2005, 06:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Aug 3 2005, 11:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Aug 3 2005, 11:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> +Duck? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    nem wins <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    bandaid solution
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  • schkorpioschkorpio I can mspaint Join Date: 2003-05-23 Member: 16635Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-WaterBoy+Aug 3 2005, 10:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WaterBoy @ Aug 3 2005, 10:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Reeke+Aug 2 2005, 07:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Reeke @ Aug 2 2005, 07:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I've said it before, if its some bloody stats tracking system im gonna go NUTS!!

    or, um, sit in the corner and and cry  <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    They have already said its not...about 10 times <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    it better not be!!!! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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  • stallioNstallioN Join Date: 2005-06-21 Member: 54363Members
    the 100% cloaking should only be for when you're standing completely still. Being inside the sensory chamber's cloaking radius should have the same effect as if you had gotten the upgrade... that is ridiculous. sensory would be completely overpowered.
    also if you had gotten silence and were inside the radius, gg invisible silent aliens that give you no notice until you've been attacked first.
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