The Aliens Are Too Powerful Compared To Marines...
LionofSun
Join Date: 2005-03-06 Member: 44003Members
Join Date: 2005-03-06 Member: 44003Members
<div class="IPBDescription">..and the Dev's don't seem to care...</div> Why?
The developers of NS don't seem to understand that in order for the Marines to win, they *MUST* (Yes, you heard me, I am making a very major statement by saying *must*, it's not my ususal way of speaking or dealing with things, but in this case the absolute must be mentioned)rshotgun-rush, or set up seige cannons outside a hive within 5 minutes or so of the game starting..OR hope that the aliens are utterly incompetant/stupid. Thats how it works. A single skilled fade can literally take on an entire team of marines, two of em have no trouble keeping them pinned in base while the rest of the alien team controls the map and secures resources..and then..the Heavy Assault Onos come rolling in.
People say, "well hey, how come marines win almost 50% of the time, that must mean the game is balanced ..right?"
WRONG. Public play involves what often amounts to incompetants flailing blindly at incompetants. With of course plenty of team stacking once it's ascertained that a certain player is exceptionally skilled.
50% or so win rate does not mean balance by itself. One must look at what is causing that .
And in the face of competant players. There is only one fact: The aliens higher level life forms are overpowered compared to high-level marine tech. Aliens with teamwork> Marines with Teamwork. And thats the bottom line.
Ooh, nearly forgot to mention. The "Balance model" of marines using ranged attacks versus aliens who must carefully ambush marines to negate that "advantage" only works with skulks and lerks. Fades move too quickly, and are too strong. The only thing that can counter fades effectively are mass HMG/SHOTTY/HA marines...and if the game is somehow miraculously at that point either a) The aliens are incompetant.
b) Allah has smiled upon the poor marines, c) see a
And of course, the aliens can switch to oni and continue the rapage, while it is nearly impossible to effectively switch to or even use JP's to "counter" Oni. Yes, there are a few areas on certain maps where this works, the rest of the time, the aliens have enough HP and speed to always escape and thus dictate when and where the fights occur.
Before I hear the "OMG AIM WHY DON"T YOU?!!", I've seen the joys of "AIMBOT USERS" with hmg's being unable to kill skilled fades..while the fades kill *everyone *. Thats right. Because it doesn't matter how good your aim is when the aliens can move in, strike and move out to regen before you can kill them. Thats how it works. The fades who die are the ones who don't understand the Hit-and Run power they have versus slow moving marines with their laughable "ranged attacks are kewl! even though they mean nothing in this game against enemies who can stun me, or close the distance before I have a chance to deal even slight damage to them!". And thats all.
Discuss.
The developers of NS don't seem to understand that in order for the Marines to win, they *MUST* (Yes, you heard me, I am making a very major statement by saying *must*, it's not my ususal way of speaking or dealing with things, but in this case the absolute must be mentioned)rshotgun-rush, or set up seige cannons outside a hive within 5 minutes or so of the game starting..OR hope that the aliens are utterly incompetant/stupid. Thats how it works. A single skilled fade can literally take on an entire team of marines, two of em have no trouble keeping them pinned in base while the rest of the alien team controls the map and secures resources..and then..the Heavy Assault Onos come rolling in.
People say, "well hey, how come marines win almost 50% of the time, that must mean the game is balanced ..right?"
WRONG. Public play involves what often amounts to incompetants flailing blindly at incompetants. With of course plenty of team stacking once it's ascertained that a certain player is exceptionally skilled.
50% or so win rate does not mean balance by itself. One must look at what is causing that .
And in the face of competant players. There is only one fact: The aliens higher level life forms are overpowered compared to high-level marine tech. Aliens with teamwork> Marines with Teamwork. And thats the bottom line.
Ooh, nearly forgot to mention. The "Balance model" of marines using ranged attacks versus aliens who must carefully ambush marines to negate that "advantage" only works with skulks and lerks. Fades move too quickly, and are too strong. The only thing that can counter fades effectively are mass HMG/SHOTTY/HA marines...and if the game is somehow miraculously at that point either a) The aliens are incompetant.
b) Allah has smiled upon the poor marines, c) see a
And of course, the aliens can switch to oni and continue the rapage, while it is nearly impossible to effectively switch to or even use JP's to "counter" Oni. Yes, there are a few areas on certain maps where this works, the rest of the time, the aliens have enough HP and speed to always escape and thus dictate when and where the fights occur.
Before I hear the "OMG AIM WHY DON"T YOU?!!", I've seen the joys of "AIMBOT USERS" with hmg's being unable to kill skilled fades..while the fades kill *everyone *. Thats right. Because it doesn't matter how good your aim is when the aliens can move in, strike and move out to regen before you can kill them. Thats how it works. The fades who die are the ones who don't understand the Hit-and Run power they have versus slow moving marines with their laughable "ranged attacks are kewl! even though they mean nothing in this game against enemies who can stun me, or close the distance before I have a chance to deal even slight damage to them!". And thats all.
Discuss.
Comments
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->However fades... Are over powered...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think thats it.
In this case, use 2-3 shotguns to take fades quickly.
really, teamwork >>>>>>> all.
except for violence, maybe.
on another note, I would REALLY like for you to prove this to me.
it just isn't so, I would rather say that marines have the advantage before fades arrive, and marine squads should go around capping/killing nodes. If they do this properly pre-fade game, you should have the 20-30 res for shotguns to take down the fade.
It used to be that alien early game was weak, and then midgame they got incredibly strong.
Now it's more like alien early game is on par with marines (free upgrades ftw, plus movement chambers make it way, way too easy to defend hives that are going up. At least aliens can destroy one end of a phase gate) and then midgame proceeds as usual with aliens being very strong.
The fact is, the entire game sill revolves around the second hive being put up, and whether or not the win ratio gets balanced even in clan play isn't going to affect that having the game revolve around the 2nd hive gets boring.
Res needs to matter more, and I think removing r4k will do wonders for game balance in addition to making res nodes more important than they are now.
Oh yeah, that and not letting fades take focus <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
See, Marines rely on teamwork and research while Aliens focus on action.
Even if the aliens are just a bunch of public, I'm-doing-this-my-way users whose only purpose on life is to rend the flesh of a few marines, they can still win because of their superior abilities (faster, tougher, quieter, etc).
On the other hand, the Marines, who require teamwork and excellent research capabilites will not always succeed at beating the Aliens. In fact, if the humans use their technology properly (using a balance of JP & HA and not just one or the other), they can still win.
Of the games that Marines lose, 99.5% (basically, all the public servers) of those games are lost because their commander has given up expanding by spending more res on reinforcing their main base instead of building other small ones (big mistakes include: being comm and afk, building 2nd IP too early, not telling marines to go out and cap res nodes, not reacting fast enough to marine request to put res node and putting a newbie in the comm chair).
At the end of the day, what scores the kills and brings home the res nodes are the guys sitting behind the computer screens, not the game. The guys at Unknown Worlds have really done a good job at balancing this game (even more so, by reading the change log of 3.1).
Long enough for ya? I think that's enough.
Sredahf
The developers of NS don't seem to understand that in order for the Marines to win, they *MUST* (Yes, you heard me, I am making a very major statement by saying *must*, it's not my ususal way of speaking or dealing with things, but in this case the absolute must be mentioned)rshotgun-rush, or set up seige cannons outside a hive within 5 minutes or so of the game starting..OR hope that the aliens are utterly incompetant/stupid. Thats how it works. A single skilled fade can literally take on an entire team of marines, two of em have no trouble keeping them pinned in base while the rest of the alien team controls the map and secures resources..and then..the Heavy Assault Onos come rolling in.
People say, "well hey, how come marines win almost 50% of the time, that must mean the game is balanced ..right?"
WRONG. Public play involves what often amounts to incompetants flailing blindly at incompetants. With of course plenty of team stacking once it's ascertained that a certain player is exceptionally skilled.
50% or so win rate does not mean balance by itself. One must look at what is causing that .
And in the face of competant players. There is only one fact: The aliens higher level life forms are overpowered compared to high-level marine tech. Aliens with teamwork> Marines with Teamwork. And thats the bottom line.
Ooh, nearly forgot to mention. The "Balance model" of marines using ranged attacks versus aliens who must carefully ambush marines to negate that "advantage" only works with skulks and lerks. Fades move too quickly, and are too strong. The only thing that can counter fades effectively are mass HMG/SHOTTY/HA marines...and if the game is somehow miraculously at that point either a) The aliens are incompetant.
b) Allah has smiled upon the poor marines, c) see a
And of course, the aliens can switch to oni and continue the rapage, while it is nearly impossible to effectively switch to or even use JP's to "counter" Oni. Yes, there are a few areas on certain maps where this works, the rest of the time, the aliens have enough HP and speed to always escape and thus dictate when and where the fights occur.
Before I hear the "OMG AIM WHY DON"T YOU?!!", I've seen the joys of "AIMBOT USERS" with hmg's being unable to kill skilled fades..while the fades kill *everyone *. Thats right. Because it doesn't matter how good your aim is when the aliens can move in, strike and move out to regen before you can kill them. Thats how it works. The fades who die are the ones who don't understand the Hit-and Run power they have versus slow moving marines with their laughable "ranged attacks are kewl! even though they mean nothing in this game against enemies who can stun me, or close the distance before I have a chance to deal even slight damage to them!". And thats all.
Discuss. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
learn to aim, 2 marines can easily down a fade with shotguns
um what? Are you using a different dictionary than everyone else?
As for balance, the aliens are (IMHO) meant to more self-suffiecent (regeneration anyone?), while marines are meant to stick in squads (You know, the commander can assign SQUADS!!!). Unless everyone is ramboing the technical details are getting more balanced every build and it's boiling down to whoever has the most skill.
EDIT: Anyone have that quote from Nem0? The "Adapt or die, the game's called natural selection" quote?