Fascist Police State Or Near-anarchy
Nil_IQ
Join Date: 2003-04-15 Member: 15520Members
Join Date: 2003-04-15 Member: 15520Members
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">YOU MUST CHOOSE</div> Something I thought up today that I thought I might share.
Somewhat inspired by you must choose.com. If you want to find it i'm sure you can do so on your own, because said site contains naughty words.
You must choose to either live in a fascist police state in which there is little to no crime and everyone is treated equally, or in an anarchistic world where everyone does what they want all the time. Incidentally i'm pretending the entire <i>world</i> magically unites and conforms to whatever choice you make, so no moving to Canada if it turns out you don't like the choice you made.
Before you answer, i'll go through the pros and cons of each so that you understand what I mean by each.
<b>Fascist Police state</b>
Pros:
-No crime, ever. You can walk down a dark alleyway anywhere in the world in the middle of the night without fear of being mugged.
Cons:
-Security cameras everywhere. And I do mean <i>Everywhere.</i> Even your home is under 24 hour surveilance.
-Mandatory ID cards for everyone, with prison sentances for anyone found without one. Random spot checks made by overzealous police. Think <i>combine</i> overzealous.
-You can't leave your house without logging into the DORS system (muchos bonus points to anyone who knows what the DORS system is from) so that the government knows you are gone. Leaving your home without doing so results in, again, a short prison sentance.
-Aforementioned overzealous police officers everywhere, who can basically do whatever they like. Again, think combine, only slightly less evil.
-As with the security cameras, there are little microphones everywhere. Saying anything negative about the government or police results in "re-education" (although you are allowed to live).
<b>Near-anarchy</b>
Pros:
-You can do what you like all the time. Ride a bike through a shopping mall, go naked in public, use illegal substances, no-one's going to stop you!
Cons:
-Crime is rampant. Going out after dark is pretty much suicide.
-Gangs of extremists preach hate on street corners (KKK, Neo-Nazis e.t.c).
-Unless you defend your own home yourself, you'll be robbed of everything you own within a few days.
So what would you choose? The main reason I thought this up (aside from said visit to youmustchoose.com) is that the way things are going in the world right now, we'll probably end up with one or the other eventually <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
</emo>
Somewhat inspired by you must choose.com. If you want to find it i'm sure you can do so on your own, because said site contains naughty words.
You must choose to either live in a fascist police state in which there is little to no crime and everyone is treated equally, or in an anarchistic world where everyone does what they want all the time. Incidentally i'm pretending the entire <i>world</i> magically unites and conforms to whatever choice you make, so no moving to Canada if it turns out you don't like the choice you made.
Before you answer, i'll go through the pros and cons of each so that you understand what I mean by each.
<b>Fascist Police state</b>
Pros:
-No crime, ever. You can walk down a dark alleyway anywhere in the world in the middle of the night without fear of being mugged.
Cons:
-Security cameras everywhere. And I do mean <i>Everywhere.</i> Even your home is under 24 hour surveilance.
-Mandatory ID cards for everyone, with prison sentances for anyone found without one. Random spot checks made by overzealous police. Think <i>combine</i> overzealous.
-You can't leave your house without logging into the DORS system (muchos bonus points to anyone who knows what the DORS system is from) so that the government knows you are gone. Leaving your home without doing so results in, again, a short prison sentance.
-Aforementioned overzealous police officers everywhere, who can basically do whatever they like. Again, think combine, only slightly less evil.
-As with the security cameras, there are little microphones everywhere. Saying anything negative about the government or police results in "re-education" (although you are allowed to live).
<b>Near-anarchy</b>
Pros:
-You can do what you like all the time. Ride a bike through a shopping mall, go naked in public, use illegal substances, no-one's going to stop you!
Cons:
-Crime is rampant. Going out after dark is pretty much suicide.
-Gangs of extremists preach hate on street corners (KKK, Neo-Nazis e.t.c).
-Unless you defend your own home yourself, you'll be robbed of everything you own within a few days.
So what would you choose? The main reason I thought this up (aside from said visit to youmustchoose.com) is that the way things are going in the world right now, we'll probably end up with one or the other eventually <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
</emo>
Comments
-Rob<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
That said, I'd go with the second option. I mean, your fascist police state is pretty much as bad as the crimials in the second scenario, except way better funded. That, and I really couldn't live in a society like that. Well, not until the inevitable re-education anyway.
<!--coloro:yellow--><span style="color:yellow"><!--/coloro-->I don't feel like restating this, but I'll ask lolfighter not to play mod since I'm obligated to do so, <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> -Rob<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I predict that the "fascist state" will win if people stay honest. But that's because the scenario is unrealistic in the first place, being only about extremes. A similarly extreme case would be, for example, giving us a choice between extreme pro-life (abortion is illegal period) and extreme pro-choice (parents can kill their children at will until legal age). It's not hard to predict what most people would choose given such a limited amount of options.
In reality, extremes are rare, and chances are that a totalitarian fascist state like that one would not appear in the first place, or would not work well and not last long.
I guess I can safely say that we all agree some measure of government control and protection of its citizens is desirable to "the law of the jungle" and your "fascist state" example is the one resembling that the most.
Plus, I'd sign up to join the police force/army.
Anarchy is, by nature, impossible to achieve because as soon as some band of armed and alike individuals starts a militia you're going to have a bunch of 3-block wide states popping up. Also, it sucks because anyone can kill you at any time and no one will help you. The cops in State 1 will only kill you if you annoy them.
[edit] Also, in anarchy I don't see much technological development happening. Humans would be knocked back to the Stone Age when the last of their modern equipment breaks down and the children are no longer taught. [/edit]
That said, I'd go with the second option. I mean, your fascist police state is pretty much as bad as the crimials in the second scenario, except way better funded. That, and I really couldn't live in a society like that. Well, not until the inevitable re-education anyway. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Remember, remember the 5th of November, eh?
<!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But...the problem with this choice is that anarchy is impossible for any extended period of time. Groups will congeal. Leaders will take charge of the groups. Members of the groups will arrest power from the leaders. Back to government. And you might say the same for an extreme fascist regime, that it would fall apart under the stresses of rebellion.
The fascist police state would be acceptable; as I'm not really doing anything illegal or of note anyway; as long as it's not preventing you from going about a routine life (marry who you want, live where you want, etc.), I don't really see it being particularily different for law-abiders...aside from the inability to change anything in the government short of a dramatic, spontaneous uprising. I'd probably know at least 6 people that would be officers in such a society anyway.
Anarchy wouldn't be too bad either, as it's not that hard to defend one's home. Plus I can make homemade gun-powder (and my grandfather has a mold for making lead bullets and shot); so I could pretty much keep myself indefinately defensible for as long as I'd need. Plus my grandfather's got about 50 acres and more guns than I even know of (and I know of at least 20, not counting the gun-safe <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> ).
As long as it's not spontaneous (and I'm not sure how something global could be spontaneous), either would probably be fine; I guess I'd actually go with anarchy...which would probably result in a lot of 'family armies' over gangs and such.
[Also: as mention at least one-hundred times in this forum alone, not to mention off-topic: the freedom of speech has obvious limits while interacting with other people. Most of them are centered around common sense.]
Aegeri! Quickly, go destroy the fools in the ID thread!
Additionally, remember that this forum is private property with users from multiple countries which each have their own take on rights. These factors make it impossible for people to have "constitution rights" of any definition other that those posted on the board rules.
This is an issue moderators grapple with ever. damn. day. :/
-Rob<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I'd go with the "anarchy" cause I'd take my sword, .357, and winchester, grab my friends, arm em up, and set up our own government <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Now, to stay on-topic....it's a horrible decision, honestly. I have no idea what makes you think the world is inexorably headed to one extreme or the other, but honestly I'd rather deal with known threats and punishments (an overpowering government) than live with the fear of...well...everyone around me.
These are the NS boards, a privately owned discussion area, with certain rules and moderators to enforce said rules. The oft-mentioned "free speech" argument people use to defend their "right" to say whatever they want around here is not applicable. End of discussion.
[...]
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As much as we/I try to be nice little dictator(s), this is still a valid point. Try to be nice to each other in here, everyone.
also, the forums and the servers they reside on are private property. the constitution only protects you from the government. move along, poster, nothing to see here.
The fascist government would indeed suck, but so long as I played nice with the other boys and girls, I'd be fine.
Anarchy would just lead to a fascist government anyway. Sooner or later, someone would orgainze an army of people and form a government anyway, gather supporters, kill all who oppose etc.
I'd have to take the fascist system, so long as I could get an education (even if it invludes being tought propoganda). Hell, who knows, I might even join the fascist police.
*cough* dictatorship of the proletariat *cough* also, THREADNOMANCY BAAD! >.<
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As this is the discussion forum, I feel it's prudent to allow such diablical practices so long as the rules of discussion continue to be followed.
To that end, I've nuked everything concerning the incident. It's been awhile, but we're back in the saddle here, so try and remember the rules of the boards. Welcome back to the benign dictatorship!
On topic, while I don't think I'd like to live in either, given no other choice, I'd have to say the total anarchy. The chance to dispense my own brand of justice and make a civilization of my own is just too interesting to pass up! I mean, you'd have to have some levels of organization, otherwise there's no one to distribute the weapons and drugs that everyone has, or harvest crops and things.
If those sorts of things exist, then there will be trade between them, and with trade comes the possibility of gaining power. It's really the best of all possible worlds for a no-namer to rise to great wealth and power. At least in my opinion.
Of course this whole discussion is fully hypothetical. Like pointed out by other posters, anarchy never lasts. People get together. They separate themselves from the other populace and form certain jobs for each one. Guards keep the people safe, the rest works on the fields/hunts etc. It's the same with police state. The described state sounded actually pretty good: no crime, no corruption. Surveillance, but that wouldn't harm since the government wouldn't use the said information against you, as long as you would abide the law. And as long as the law is fair, you really wouldn't want to break it in the first place. In reality however, power corrupts. The police would start abusing their status. The governing organs would begin to oppress the people for their own benefit(taxation etc.)
So, I don't really think people are ever going to be ruled by such extremes for longer period of times. Though I do think the world-government is eventually going to happen. Well, not in our lifetime.
Besides, if its anarchy, I can always just become a postman.
In anarchy , you may be killed for not pleasing the local warlord : this is the inherent risk in rising against any arbitrary rule. However , if you managed to make the people within his territory think like you , he has no choice but to negociate or run away. Soldiers needed to maintain order are never high in the hierarchy , so their loyalty is related to their revenue and the principles they are supposed to enforce. Given the value of these in any dictatorship , they are likely to side with the people when equality and justice are promised.
Order can rise from chaos ; but no life can grow from the sterile settings of fascist dystopia.