[NS:S] Outdoor Maps

tigersmith · July 2006

How about some Outdoor Maps for NS:S. that would be cool maybe a map at the Alien base on another planet or the Marines main Base.

Sorry for the Crappy info about my idea, when I get back home ill post some more

X_Stickman · July 2006

Outdoor maps have been suggested before I think (but I won't tell you to go search for them 'cos the search is broke, and I cba looking for them myself, so I'll try to remember what the basic responses were).

Essentially, NS doesn't work well in large open spaces. One of the reasons for this is the skybox, basically. NS has always been relatively realistic (based on it's own rules that is), that is, it has it's own set of rules/physics, and sticks to them. Seeing a lerk fly upwards and then suddenly hit a skybox would look fairly ridiculous, then.

Another major problem is the fact that, in large open spaces, the aliens get utterly owned unless the marine team are complete nubs. The only aliens capable of crossing any sizable distance with speed are the skulk with leap (which would get cut down fast), the fade with Blink (which would also get cut down fairly fast, especially by 3 marines, in an open space) and the lerk (which would just get cut down very fast). The onos would be dead before it reached the line of the marines, simply because it's a big, slow moving target.

So the way to combat these points would be to have something covering the sky, and make the maps more claustraphobic and tight. Which is in essense what we have now, and removes the good points about having outside maps in the first place. What you'd basically get is a set of re-skinned versions of current maps, or a map made out of the biodome hive style decor.

To conclude: I don't think outdoor maps would work with the current weapon systems of the aliens and marines. If some major changes were made (such as giving the aliens a decent long range weapon, or significantly toughing them up, or adding a noticable spray/recoil effect to the marines weapons) then it could work I guess, but the advantage would be on the marines. Then again, none of us really know what sort of shape NS:S is gonna take, and those who do know won't tell.

Zenzou · July 2006

There's the possibility of having outdoor maps that have a mothership of somesort in the sky or an actual large alien thing... or even better an infested TSA battleship! Although the issue of the marine's weapon range advantage.

There's also things that could be done to help the aliens out like cloud or fog cover or perhaps an advanced war version of the aliens. As one of the stickies in this section suggests, the first NS was first contact while NS:S is the war. So wars a bigger in scale and don't neccessarily have to be in small confined spaceships or corridors all the time.

The main selling point I think, when the mod first came out was the almost-unique RTS & FPS combo (C&C Renegade having taken that first step before). So perhaps outdoor environments can build upon this RTS & FPS combo even more and with something new and unique. The consideration of the outdoor maps idea shouldn't be put aside, but it could be very possible with the Source engine.

I've already played many mods that leads me to believe that there are very high limits that can be exploited to make anything work.

aeroripper · July 2006

The only thing I would want to see outdoors in NS:S is maybe an introductionary sequence to each map where marines enter the station from outdoors in some way that fits with the story of each map.

Ex) Flying to the compound in a TSA ship and unloading, unlocking doors to get into the command chair room, etc. I like the landing ship idea, it would be cooler if we could also move around during this sequence do give it an extra level of interactivity and realism.

For the main game though, everything should be indoors and pumped with atmosphere.

BobTheJanitor · July 2006

Outdoor maps don't really work, for most of the reasons already lined up. Aliens as the melee class get owned in any large space, and skulks walking on the sky just looks bad.

The idea of an outside area where marines originally spawn and then come into the fight was actually part of the original design. You can still see it on the very old school version of ns_hera that was floating around for a while. Marines start out on the landing pad and run in to MS. That doesn't work so well either, due to beacon using the original spawn points. Hard to save MS when you have to run 10 seconds to get there...

However, source would allow different spawn entities that might make beaconing less problematic, so maybe the initial spawn/dropship idea would be more usable there.

GamezLord · July 2006

TBH I've been thinking about trying to make 1 that will fit the NS playstyle for quite some time. The thing I found the most fitting is a Swamp based TSA bunker being seiged by aliens/TSA invading Kharaa infested swamp planet.

A dense swamp outdoors scene will work but I dunno if HL1 engine is capable of it since I never got to fiddle around with the idea. With alot of hard work Source engine can probably make it work, with dense tree and tons of fog.

baddy · September 2006

caverns swamps jungles
all of them are outdoor and doesn't have to be the big open spaces

i remember one of the mappers that kept pointing out different outdoor scenarios that could be pulled of with the current teams (it is in the ns:source poll in the general forum)

anything is possiple with a little imagination

a few other things

duststorms:storms of different particles going at wery high speeds
damaging players

electrical storms: shutting off equipment and and noise on all channels:
players caught in one of these will lose the functionality of the hud or seeing/hearing things not there

mixing indoor with outdoor

could be 2 or 3 smaller installations connected by vents and different passages to the outdoor

a cavesystem...

this is just brainstorming ideas

and dealing with the maps...
i'm gonna listen to the mappers, not the players

Scythe · September 2006

From a story perspective it could be said that the aliens are in their current form due to them having adapted for combat in a close-quarter environment. If combat were to take place in an open arena the life forms would be totally different. It's impossibly difficult to pick what would change, or even if changing the current life forms would be good enough, but it should be possible to pick out a few rough principals. For starters all aliens would have to be A) A hell of a lot tougher, B) Faster, C) More deadly, D) More ranged attacks, or any combination of the above or any other factors.

In short, outdoor maps would require a radical reworking of essentially every aspect of NS. Don't hold your breath. But I'm still hoping. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />

Sheba · September 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> In short, outdoor maps would require a radical reworking of essentially every aspect of NS. </div>

It depends on how the outdoor maps are designed. If you think of a desert ... you are right, but let me be your inspiration ^^

Imagine an urban area with a big spaceship beeing crashed into it. It could have pierced the sewer-system and the subways. Huge debris parts are covering the streetcanyons. Dust, fire and chaos everywhere ^^

If there are problems with the map limitations ... think! ^^ If I was the TSA, the first thing I would do, is quarantine that area with some kind of huge energyfield (assuming the story allows the TSA to have energyfields) from above, and firedoors in the subways and sewers.

Don't think about problems, think about solutions ^^

Merkaba · November 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BobTheJanitor @ Jul 23 2006, 01:41 AM) [snapback]1564258[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>and skulks walking on the sky just looks bad.
</div>

You do realise that it is possible to code it so that skulks <i>can't</i> walk on sky, right? I mean, NS2 is going to be on a new engine and built from scratch and all, you'd think it's possible to overcome a stupid little bug like that <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> Also, lerks hitting a skybox is a problem that can be easily fixed too. There's no reason why NS2 couldn't have outdoor areas which don't have bizarre behaviour.

Rover · November 2006

Imo semi-outside spaces would work better. What I mean is for example a map consisting of both normal parts (inside) and big parts covered by glass. Big terrains with loads of cover, yet still giving an open feeling would be perfect. It could be a huge base with certain (huge) rooms dedicated to growing plants for example, letting light in but being shut off from the toxic outside world.

CrazyFool · November 2006

Well of course it wouldn't need to be a wide open map like a desert. You could fight in say, a forest and have plenty of tree cover while possibly using the canopy of the trees as a sky box. You could have hives hang from trees and imagine walking through a forest and having a lerk swoop down from a tree and eat your head.

TheOriginal10Round · November 2006

Well , I don't think an onos would be found wandering caves to graze in........I see alot of ppl awnsering or posting as if this is still going to be a limited HL1 mod, this is an entirely new game and should be looked at as such. Outdoor maps would be extremely fun if done correctly, rolling ,hilly, wooded plains where hives could be found in mounds, the outdoor map in no way should be flat , think of something like the bad lands with ravines and pits. Use your imagination.....

Hyperion · November 2006

Semi-outside seems to be the best way to go IMO. Not only does it prevent some of the problems listed, but it really adds to the atmosphere, but giving you a feeling of being trapped (origin anyone?) close to safety but very, very far from it.

[NS:S] Outdoor Maps

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