Seigeturrets - Long Post.
Kobra
Join Date: 2002-06-09 Member: 744Members
Join Date: 2002-06-09 Member: 744Members
<div class="IPBDescription">You've heard it all before but. story</div> I wonder is there a limit on how many seigeturrets you can build in an area? Just like there is a limit on how many chambers you can place as an alien, if so what's that limit?
The reason im wondering is that as we all know, seigeturrets are powerful and great for removing alien building nearby. 1 turret can cause alot of damage and easily kill any aliens near any alien buildings. The thing is, that if you place more then one seigeturret at a spot they get twice as powerful, quite enough to wipe out any medium defence there is nearby. Aliens can live with that, thay can still "try" to repair the buildings, and there is alot healing to be done with only 2 seigeturrets fireing. If more then 1 seigeturret is firering on the same building, it's nearly impossible to save, even so if even 1 is fireing on it. So yes they are annoying for the aliens, but it's possible to take them out.
But here is the thing. In a game i had built up 2 hives to the max, i had placed some rows with offensie chambers at either passage leading to the hive and some defensive chambers behind them to keep them safe. I was careful not to place all the chambers too close to eachother, but close enought to be effective defence.
So here i am building these two hives and have just finished them both and i use a movement chamber to get to the 3rd hive that we just got built and are just about to start building when i hear that one of the hives are being attacked, the same hive i just left with maxed defense.
So i quickly start building a movementchamber and manage to teleport back the that hive again. Just as i reappear at the hive i get killed by a seigeturret and at the same time that hive goes down. The same time it took for me to teleport to another hive, build a movement chamber and teleport back to the hive, the marines managed to wipe the entire hive out, all chambers, hive, everything.
So we loose that hive. Annoyed i respawn and as soon as i materialize into my hive, i hear that yet another hive is gettign attack. The hive being attacked is the other hive that i also had maxed with chambers and such, so i sprint there as a skulk to do what i could to help. Once i get near the hive, i run into a marinebase and get killed by a row of turret and marines. A few seconds after i die, we loose that hive as well.
I did manage to get a good look at their base before i died tho, and it looked like they had built a large number of seige turrets in the middle of the room along with an turret factory, it all surrounded by a ring of turrets.
Im sorry about the long story but what i wanted to point out was that if you build 1 or 2 seige turrets together, they are powerful, but if you build about 6 of them, the damage they do is insane. Basicly, all the marines have to do is to fortify a room near a hive, build a group of seige turrets and turrets and defend them and just wait until the hive nearby dies then go on the the next one and repeat it all again.
The marines does'nt even have to get near the hive itself to take it out.
Many would say that i should've fortified the rooms nearby as well. As well as this sounds like a good idea, it's not very practical since if you build defenses in a room near the hive, you either leave the hive itself unprotected or you eventually have your defenses so spread out, they wont even need seige turrets to break throu.
So is there a limit to how many turrets you can build in an area and if so how many?
Imho seigeturrets should be a very limited building to place. Making it so that you have to be more careful where to place them and care more about their survival as a marine.
The reason im wondering is that as we all know, seigeturrets are powerful and great for removing alien building nearby. 1 turret can cause alot of damage and easily kill any aliens near any alien buildings. The thing is, that if you place more then one seigeturret at a spot they get twice as powerful, quite enough to wipe out any medium defence there is nearby. Aliens can live with that, thay can still "try" to repair the buildings, and there is alot healing to be done with only 2 seigeturrets fireing. If more then 1 seigeturret is firering on the same building, it's nearly impossible to save, even so if even 1 is fireing on it. So yes they are annoying for the aliens, but it's possible to take them out.
But here is the thing. In a game i had built up 2 hives to the max, i had placed some rows with offensie chambers at either passage leading to the hive and some defensive chambers behind them to keep them safe. I was careful not to place all the chambers too close to eachother, but close enought to be effective defence.
So here i am building these two hives and have just finished them both and i use a movement chamber to get to the 3rd hive that we just got built and are just about to start building when i hear that one of the hives are being attacked, the same hive i just left with maxed defense.
So i quickly start building a movementchamber and manage to teleport back the that hive again. Just as i reappear at the hive i get killed by a seigeturret and at the same time that hive goes down. The same time it took for me to teleport to another hive, build a movement chamber and teleport back to the hive, the marines managed to wipe the entire hive out, all chambers, hive, everything.
So we loose that hive. Annoyed i respawn and as soon as i materialize into my hive, i hear that yet another hive is gettign attack. The hive being attacked is the other hive that i also had maxed with chambers and such, so i sprint there as a skulk to do what i could to help. Once i get near the hive, i run into a marinebase and get killed by a row of turret and marines. A few seconds after i die, we loose that hive as well.
I did manage to get a good look at their base before i died tho, and it looked like they had built a large number of seige turrets in the middle of the room along with an turret factory, it all surrounded by a ring of turrets.
Im sorry about the long story but what i wanted to point out was that if you build 1 or 2 seige turrets together, they are powerful, but if you build about 6 of them, the damage they do is insane. Basicly, all the marines have to do is to fortify a room near a hive, build a group of seige turrets and turrets and defend them and just wait until the hive nearby dies then go on the the next one and repeat it all again.
The marines does'nt even have to get near the hive itself to take it out.
Many would say that i should've fortified the rooms nearby as well. As well as this sounds like a good idea, it's not very practical since if you build defenses in a room near the hive, you either leave the hive itself unprotected or you eventually have your defenses so spread out, they wont even need seige turrets to break throu.
So is there a limit to how many turrets you can build in an area and if so how many?
Imho seigeturrets should be a very limited building to place. Making it so that you have to be more careful where to place them and care more about their survival as a marine.
Comments
It still bothers me tho that a group of seige turrets can wipe out anything and everything in a matters of seconds.
Naah. How big was the game? On 7+ people per team games the RPs get screwed to pooch and back. Marines end up with huge surplusses(sp?) and aliens get next to nothing.
Ah well. It's been said pleny of times before, I'm sure someone's heard it. I would appreciate a damn limit on the damn things but that's just me, as a pure alien player. I'm sure some people think fades are unkillable when I get <b>66-0</b> in games. Yes. You read the bold text right <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> . I ROCK <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
Sieges will usually fire at least one shot before the aliens take notice of it. In most of my Kharaa games, the aliens always swarmed the siege location to destroy it before it caused anymore damage. The smart move is to build nowhere near it, use healing spray if you want to support the attackers, but don't build a defense tower within the siege's range... please.
i can't see how your complaining. if the marines had the resource to setup 6+? SC's near TWO seperate hives, had the time to do it, and apparently no alien noticed, it is YOUR fault for losing.
a server i play on basically banned usage of the SC's in an offensive fashion, (as well as disabling HA) because they felt that a group of HA marines + SC's was much more powerful then an equal number of fades + whatever.
i think that it is ridiculous to try to match this stuff up. the siege cannon is meant to destroy buildings. it is your job to make sure that doesn't happen. not the creator's responsibility to make sure that nothing can blow up your "maxed out" hives. if you had enough resources to max out defenses you should have built sensory chambers or SOMETHING to keep track of the enemy.
and yes, i play marine heavily.
It's still quite possible for marines to seige a room and fortify it, even with a experienced alien players.
Im not sure how they could afford all those seige turrets, afaik those are rather expensive, and we had most of the nodes availible.
It was'nt until we lost two hives that they starting to grab our nodes.
I dont say this happens everytime, since this is the second time it has happened, so it's not that common.
And please dont take everything people say as a complain and flame it.
I never really have problems when i play and most times a enjoy it, even when loosing, but you can get a bit annoyed, just like people would as an marine if for example an skulk zerg wipes out the marine base ect. Things like this happens and will happen even more in the future, when players for example learn how powerful seige turrets can be.
I was generaly curious on how many seige turrets and ordinary turrets you can fit in one area.
I guess one room of seigeturrets would equal an whole alien team as an onos, but even a full team of onos cant take out a heavily defended base under 2 min. But that's not really comparible tho. It just feel like a bit overkill, that's all.
I can't see why you dont think i did'nt build sensor towers as well, i use them alot as well as movement towers and i can't see how you can blame me for having my team loose, imo i did everything right.
I generaly play both sides but lean more towards the alien side (how suprising) since i feel that the marines are a bit too "whiny" atm.
It'll probably be better for both sides when people learn to play better, but there will always be new people so you cant always expect people to be experts.
I think these Turret clusters wont be as common in later when people learn to play and cooperate a bit better.
but yah, that 6 siegeturets is fn scary, that is a hideous amount of RPs and I am willing to bet that they pulled the Build-them-To-1-Bar-left strategy, and then got them all O/L nearly the same time (thus why the hive went down so fast)
my 2 things on this case:
1) it is interesting that they started hitting the hives so fast (other advantage of chambers is that they will usualy get targeted first so you get the 'structure under attack' and have time to run back
2) your team probably was sucking if they managed to get up that many siege turrets (to save for that you team must not have been constantly rushhing thme as they should have been ;D)
my basic Strat fro Aliens:
2 teams, one builds the other pisses off the marines <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> (go chomp the CC/IP/TF don't worry about killing it, though that is a pluss, just make sure they gotta keep some marines in base, it slowes em down ;D)
I'd say you did your job great, just had a rough time with your team <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think these Turret clusters wont be as common in later when people learn to play and cooperate a bit better.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a common mistake people keep on making and I cannot figure out why. These walls of lame that people talk about were not because of alot of Defense Chambers just stacked around offense chambers. The problem is the bug with siege cannons not dealing the right amount of damage. Trust me... Once the seige cannons are fixed... no more than 1 or 2 would ever be needed for any area. The reason people see so many is because the siege cannons are not working like they're supposed to.
Still... Even WITH the siege cannon not working properly... It is still quite easy to take down these stacked Offense Chambers. Grenades actually wont work too well unfortunately. What will work splendidly is an HMG. Take a lesson from the fade. Go in there, unload one clip into an OC and back out. Reload. Heal. Repeat. That takes out OC's easily. I personally like siege cannons not because of their ability to destroy structures quickly (since they usually cannot atm), but their ability to kill the enemy from splash damage. Have a bunch of SC's aiming at a corridor of alien structures... and the aliens wont pass either. Nor will they be easily be healed (if the gorges were morons and put everything next to each other that is).
Ah well. It's been said pleny of times before, I'm sure someone's heard it. I would appreciate a damn limit on the damn things but that's just me, as a pure alien player. I'm sure some people think fades are unkillable when I get <b>66-0</b> in games. Yes. You read the bold text right <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> . I ROCK <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dont know what you're talking about. Resources are not messed up like they used to be. No matter what team size you have. I play both sides about evenly now a days and the aliens can get a surplus of resources just as easily as the marines... by controlling Resource Nozzles. Simple concept. Devestating results.
And being a pure alien player is a waste of time and to an extent should remove you from ever commenting about balance issues. Unless you play both teams about evenly and can understand the strengths and weaknesses (not to mention the two different sets of strategy) you cannot complain about balance. If you're a pure alien player you will have no concept of anything other than your alien world. Of course you'd hate siege cannons. Rediculous to think other wise.
LOL... that's actually funny. Trapping aliens in buildings. I'll have to try that sometime.
and the other part isnt that bad of a strat either.
LOL
The game went something like this:
Join the server. Move to holoroom. Get some defenses up, and build two nossles. Move to archiving, and fortify that hive. Link everything up with phase gates.
Spend 15 minutes and about 300 RP's, not to mention the lives of 20 marines, attempting to take and hold processing. We finally got backed into a corner by fades and skulks, and even with the HA and HMG's we were carrying, it was a hectic firefight. And I mean, hectic. Try having 2 guys on either side of the room, emptying their weapons as fast as they can fill them, and 3 guys with their back's to the wall, trying to get a turret factory up for the seige on DCD. We set it up, and start work in our first seige. A lucky acid rocet kills 2 people, and our skirmishers run low on ammo.
Just as my health turns to zero, we get the first seige up. Everyone rushes in with shotguns to try to defend it, and 5 minutes and hundreds of rounds of ammo later, the seige stops firing.
So we move to the east wall of processing, and set up another seige point. This time, under the constant barrage of spieks and suicide skulks. Innumerable ammounts of men go down trying to get the base up.
10 minutes later, we win.
Now, the aliens had multiple opportunities to win the game, let's examine.
1) Keep the pressure on us, and keep us in our place in Hera Reception. This would have bought the gorges another 5 minutes to defend the hive locations.
2) Hold and fight for the holoroom for all it was worth. Keep us spending massive ammounts of RP's taking it down, and building it back up again, all the while making co-ordinated rushes on the area, to keep us on our toes.
3) Hold us outside of processing. There's only so much acid spam a man can take.
4) Kick out as hard and as fast as you can against archiving. Take down the phase gate, kill the turret fac, and build a third hive.
Take your pick. There were plenty of ways that we could have won, and plenty of ways that they could have won. IMO, the game is balanced.
turrets should be limited to
6 sentries per turret factory
1 siege per turret factory
3 turret factories max in a area about the size for the alien turrets
yea..