Alcapwn"War is the science of destruction" - John AbbotJoin Date: 2003-06-21Member: 17590Members
<!--quoteo(post=1567868:date=Sep 25 2006, 02:13 PM:name=urinalcake)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(urinalcake @ Sep 25 2006, 02:13 PM) [snapback]1567868[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> just the same feel of ns. gameplay still has to be fun, but i want the feel that NS 1.0 gave me. dark, eerie. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think most of the "Dark Errie" feeling from NS 1.0 came from the maps; i was playing tanith 1.04 the other day; and the amount of atmospheric stuff they took out of that map is amazing. (Water, fog, smoke etc)
All for the 2.0 optomization ofcoruse, but it hope that stuff is back in NSS.
<!--quoteo(post=1567535:date=Sep 23 2006, 02:44 AM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swiftspear @ Sep 23 2006, 02:44 AM) [snapback]1567535[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Karba: Currently there are significantly more players playing DoD:S then there are playing DoD, nearly double last time I checked. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1--> Current Current Player Minutes Game Players Servers /Month Day of Defeat 3,857 1,734 192.230 million Day of Defeat: Source 2,972 2,240 150.310 million <!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
(sorry for the double-post, but the two posts are really pretty separate subjects)
<!--quoteo(post=1567631:date=Sep 23 2006, 03:57 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swiftspear @ Sep 23 2006, 03:57 PM) [snapback]1567631[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> NS slippery slides harder then any RTS game out there I know, and I've played many. The maddening thing is that it's entirely preventable too, it just requires NS to use the same counter slip that every RTS in existence uses. Unit/counter unit innate design. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree that you can often predict the victor by the outcome of the first major battle. However, this attribute of a game is not inherently a bad thing. This statement is pretty much true of any game where the battles are determined by skill (as opposed to RTS, where battles are largely determined by your build/strategy that has given you the army you're using in battle), though. If one team is better than the other, which team is more likely to win the first major battle and which team is more likely to win the round?
I also agree that NS sometimes has annoyingly prolonged endgames even after the victor is clear.
I do not agree that counter units are at all a reasonable idea for NS.
NS is not an RTS. It is an FPS with RTS elements. There are some major problems with increasing the RTS aspect of the game. As has been said in countless NS interviews, nobody wants to be a zergling vs a firebat. Greatly increasing the RTS/tech path/strategy part of the game is that it would then become too much a one-player game on marines. If the commander could merely research the appropriate counters for his marines, and the marines' efficacy comes down largely to what counter tech their comm has researched, what role are the marines playing in the game? The marine game would come down to the comm's RTS abilities, which sort of ruins that whole 'teamplay' thing some of us FPSers are keen on.
The slippery-slope problem (I prefer "drinking game syndrome", so as to avoid confusion with the "slippery slope" logical fallacy) could certainly use some attention, and I don't claim to have a solution, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to play an NS with hard counters.
<!--quoteo(post=1567650:date=Sep 23 2006, 09:44 PM:name=Wyzcrak)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wyzcrak @ Sep 23 2006, 09:44 PM) [snapback]1567650[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> It's my understanding that Speex is not supported in the Source engine? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> True. I do remember seeing a mod that included in their features list a custom voice codec... though that is probably on the wish list of all source mods, implimentation would be a treat.
<!--quoteo(post=1567936:date=Sep 25 2006, 07:47 PM:name=Dirm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dirm @ Sep 25 2006, 07:47 PM) [snapback]1567936[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Woo, I get to use the same link twice in one day
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1--> Current Current Player Minutes Game Players Servers /Month Day of Defeat 3,857 1,734 192.230 million Day of Defeat: Source 2,972 2,240 150.310 million <!--c2--></div><!--ec2--> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There isn't, simply because DoD: Source is basically DoD with better graphics and minor tweaks, not to mentiom requires a better computer than DoD needs(which isn't much) and you have to buy HL2 to play DoD.
So people paying extra $$$ for just better graphics and minor tweaks to DoD = reason why DoD:S isn't as popular as DoD.
NS:Source on the other hand, we're not only going for better graphics, but going for things the HL1 engine couldn't support, which is a lot of change to NS.
So when NS:S comes out, there is a reason to actually get NS:S besides just better graphics.
Edit: So now "Quote" doesn't automaticly quote the person that quoted another person? Boohoo. When I said "There isn't" I refered to Swiftspear's comment about DoD:S having more players than regular DoD.
urinalcakeCan't work a sound cardUnited StatesJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7799Members
<!--quoteo(post=1567943:date=Sep 26 2006, 01:08 AM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aeroripper @ Sep 26 2006, 01:08 AM) [snapback]1567943[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> A camera view_control entity attached to your players model at the head so when you die you see your ragdoll bouncing below you. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dystopia has that! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> Oh, and that reminds me, I think it might be kind of cool to have your orientation change if you climb walls as a Skulk, like Dystopian cyberspace. I remember hearing puzl working on that for the current NS version, but I think it was halted or something.
<!--quoteo(post=1567947:date=Sep 26 2006, 01:41 AM:name=urinalcake)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(urinalcake @ Sep 26 2006, 01:41 AM) [snapback]1567947[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Dystopia has that! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> Oh, and that reminds me, I think it might be kind of cool to have your orientation change if you climb walls as a Skulk, like Dystopian cyberspace. I remember hearing puzl working on that for the current NS version, but I think it was halted or something. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Last I remember, they decided against it, because they thought it would make people motion sick. (Although if you're easily motion sick, I've got to wonder why you would play an FPS...)
In a way, Dys' cyber space is a much less traumatic reorientation because (A) other than the tubes, you can see it coming, and (B) you don't have to deal with it if you're not a decker. At any point, the whole alien team will have been a skulk, and a skulk moves a heck of a lot faster than pretty much anything in any other mod currently.
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1567943:date=Sep 26 2006, 12:08 AM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aeroripper @ Sep 26 2006, 12:08 AM) [snapback]1567943[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> A camera view_control entity attached to your players model at the head so when you die you see your ragdoll bouncing below you. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- Even more ambience. Source can handle more atmospheric effects, use them (Gas leaks, fire, etc). The sounds in the game are excellent but some of the background moods and music are becoming worn out. I would especially love to see a more dynamic "infestation" effect around captured hives with puddles of living sludge (I would love to see them expand as the game goes on but I don't know how feasible that is). - Flame laucher. That's almost a given. I have yet to see a well done volumetric flame laucher in a game, but I believe Source is capable of it. I always dreamed of immolating that vent in ns_nothing behind the resnode that leads to Cargo Bay. If the flames could progress realistically, it would be an amazing addition to the game. - New core features seem essential. I'm not sure how integration/balance would work but NS:S has to go beyond better graphics. I can see that a port seems like the most viable option at the moment, but I would prefer fresh gameplay. - NS:Combat should be secondary if even considered.
Yeah I really like the idea of dynamic infestation, maybe even with some gameplay effects, like if the aliens take a certain hive the infestation starts growing and eventually cuts off critical routes to the marines? Hives should start off looking perfectly normally and eventually look completely alien (so you cant see any of the metal behind them).
<!--quoteo(post=1567941:date=Sep 25 2006, 11:05 PM:name=Petco)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Petco @ Sep 25 2006, 11:05 PM) [snapback]1567941[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> So people paying extra $$$ for just better graphics and minor tweaks to DoD = reason why DoD:S isn't as popular as DoD. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> those "minor tweaks" you refer to are the direct cause of why no one considers dod:s a valid competition platform
Interesting discussion with some good info. I agree with a lot of what is said here, particularly what Merkaba says about slowing the game down, building training into the game (and making it fun, not a chore) and making the game as atmospheric as possible (something I think we can do with better tools and the increased entity allowances in Source).
The idea of whether to remake NS or make a new game does seem a bit up in the air though. I know which I'd prefer <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> but I'd be interested to find out what you guys think.
WyzcrakPot Pie AficionadoJoin Date: 2002-12-04Member: 10447Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Slow is good, even if that describes the development cycles as much as it does the gameplay. I can wait. Just don't compromise. Make it what you want it to be, even if those wants are influenced by the feedback you get here.
<!--quoteo(post=1567192:date=Sep 21 2006, 03:38 AM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(puzl @ Sep 21 2006, 03:38 AM) [snapback]1567192[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Sounds to me like you want to continue playing NS on half-life. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We want to continue playing ns with more players, and source is a good way to do that.
Sometimes I watch Sci Fi Movies, laughing at the Characters Weapons. When I go to sleep then, I sometimes dream of Weapons that aren't Hand carried, but attached to Arms or the Hand's back.
Something like this should be considered for the Player's Model(s) in NSS/NS². But that is only my Dreaming =)
..no, this is not taken from Dystopia's Heavyarmor Model, I had this Idea way before I happened to see that Game in Action.
I don't want huge battles. This is not Counter Strike. Stay to the original idea with adding new stuff to the arsenal of weapons and lifeforms and you'll be fine. I want a nice game with cool ambient stuff, dark corridoors and all the things that made NS popular =)
<!--quoteo(post=1568078:date=Sep 26 2006, 06:06 PM:name=Nadagast)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Nadagast @ Sep 26 2006, 06:06 PM) [snapback]1568078[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Slow the game down? I disagree entirely although I guess its more of a preference thing than one where one of us is right and one is wrong.
Games are supposed to be fun not slow & boring... <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The games don't necessarily have to be boring if they are slow. Personally, for the RTS side of the game, I WOULD like to see longer games. It's all about balance though, since you still have the FPS element. You need games to be mediocore in length.
<!--quoteo(post=1568137:date=Sep 27 2006, 07:00 AM:name=Lt_Realness)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lt_Realness @ Sep 27 2006, 07:00 AM) [snapback]1568137[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I don't want huge battles. This is not Counter Strike.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Counter-Strike was designed for 5on5 play. Natural Selection (correct me if I'm wrong here Charlie) was designed for 6on6 play. However, despite the gameplay imbalances inherent of playing with larger numbers of players than either game was designed for - we see both. 30+ man CS:Source servers are a common sight - just as much so are the 20+ man NS:Combat servers.
The point here is that you can hardly base your decision on what Joe Public decides to do with a completely different game, whilst completely disregarding it's balance and gameplay issues/design.
I vote for more light marine vs skulk combat. The best part of the game is the first 4-5 minutes of NS anyway. The rest is just a transition until the start of the next round <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
0/1/0 marines vs skulks wihtout upgrades is awesome.
Alcapwn"War is the science of destruction" - John AbbotJoin Date: 2003-06-21Member: 17590Members
<!--quoteo(post=1568190:date=Sep 27 2006, 03:29 PM:name=coris)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(coris @ Sep 27 2006, 03:29 PM) [snapback]1568190[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I vote for more light marine vs skulk combat. The best part of the game is the first 4-5 minutes of NS anyway. The rest is just a transition until the start of the next round <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
0/1/0 marines vs skulks wihtout upgrades is awesome. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I *Slightly* agree with this.
The line between mid-game and end-game is blurred a little too much in NS. Something that needs to be fixed in NS2.
<!--quoteo(post=1568190:date=Sep 27 2006, 02:29 PM:name=coris)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(coris @ Sep 27 2006, 02:29 PM) [snapback]1568190[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I vote for more light marine vs skulk combat. The best part of the game is the first 4-5 minutes of NS anyway. The rest is just a transition until the start of the next round <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
0/1/0 marines vs skulks wihtout upgrades is awesome. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Totally agree. It's a thinking man's shooter. The more cunning person will usually win in these fights, not the one with his ZOMGWTH bunnyhop from hell and chipmunk on caffeine reflexes.
<!--quoteo(post=1568199:date=Sep 27 2006, 03:32 PM:name=WaterBoy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(WaterBoy @ Sep 27 2006, 03:32 PM) [snapback]1568199[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I *Slightly* agree with this.
The line between mid-game and end-game is blurred a little too much in NS. Something that needs to be fixed in NS2. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The line isn't blurred at all, it's a HUGE SOLID RED line right at the 7 minute mark, if the second hive is up and finished then or before then you enter the endgame and aliens have won, if it does not you enter the endgame and the marines have won. It would be really nice if we could at least pretend there was a reason to keep playing the game past the second hive in NS2. It's entirely possible to do it in such a way that this is true, but it would require some design magic to make it realistic.
The line is blurred by each team's respective skill in pub play. Two hives won't save you from a good team of marines and viceversa one hive doesn't mean doom for the aliens. I've seen so many comebacks that I never think I'm winning/losing before the final rush. And I like the mid game, both pub and competitive, because with upgrades and res for lifeforms it truely shows off how the teams are managing their res (you have more options to choose) to try to get the upper edge, and unless you've got lots of fades or oni on your trail, you may never know what you can still do.
Comments
just the same feel of ns. gameplay still has to be fun, but i want the feel that NS 1.0 gave me. dark, eerie.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think most of the "Dark Errie" feeling from NS 1.0 came from the maps; i was playing tanith 1.04 the other day; and the amount of atmospheric stuff they took out of that map is amazing. (Water, fog, smoke etc)
All for the 2.0 optomization ofcoruse, but it hope that stuff is back in NSS.
Karba: Currently there are significantly more players playing DoD:S then there are playing DoD, nearly double last time I checked.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Woo, I get to use the same link twice in one day
<a href="http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=stats" target="_blank">Steam stats</a>
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->
Current Current Player Minutes
Game Players Servers /Month
Day of Defeat 3,857 1,734 192.230 million
Day of Defeat: Source 2,972 2,240 150.310 million
<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
<!--quoteo(post=1567631:date=Sep 23 2006, 03:57 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swiftspear @ Sep 23 2006, 03:57 PM) [snapback]1567631[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
NS slippery slides harder then any RTS game out there I know, and I've played many. The maddening thing is that it's entirely preventable too, it just requires NS to use the same counter slip that every RTS in existence uses. Unit/counter unit innate design.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree that you can often predict the victor by the outcome of the first major battle. However, this attribute of a game is not inherently a bad thing. This statement is pretty much true of any game where the battles are determined by skill (as opposed to RTS, where battles are largely determined by your build/strategy that has given you the army you're using in battle), though. If one team is better than the other, which team is more likely to win the first major battle and which team is more likely to win the round?
I also agree that NS sometimes has annoyingly prolonged endgames even after the victor is clear.
I do not agree that counter units are at all a reasonable idea for NS.
NS is not an RTS. It is an FPS with RTS elements. There are some major problems with increasing the RTS aspect of the game. As has been said in countless NS interviews, nobody wants to be a zergling vs a firebat. Greatly increasing the RTS/tech path/strategy part of the game is that it would then become too much a one-player game on marines. If the commander could merely research the appropriate counters for his marines, and the marines' efficacy comes down largely to what counter tech their comm has researched, what role are the marines playing in the game? The marine game would come down to the comm's RTS abilities, which sort of ruins that whole 'teamplay' thing some of us FPSers are keen on.
The slippery-slope problem (I prefer "drinking game syndrome", so as to avoid confusion with the "slippery slope" logical fallacy) could certainly use some attention, and I don't claim to have a solution, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to play an NS with hard counters.
It's my understanding that Speex is not supported in the Source engine?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
True. I do remember seeing a mod that included in their features list a custom voice codec... though that is probably on the wish list of all source mods, implimentation would be a treat.
Woo, I get to use the same link twice in one day
<a href="http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=stats" target="_blank">Steam stats</a>
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->
Current Current Player Minutes
Game Players Servers /Month
Day of Defeat 3,857 1,734 192.230 million
Day of Defeat: Source 2,972 2,240 150.310 million
<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There isn't, simply because DoD: Source is basically DoD with better graphics and minor tweaks, not to mentiom requires a better computer than DoD needs(which isn't much) and you have to buy HL2 to play DoD.
So people paying extra $$$ for just better graphics and minor tweaks to DoD = reason why DoD:S isn't as popular as DoD.
NS:Source on the other hand, we're not only going for better graphics, but going for things the HL1 engine couldn't support, which is a lot of change to NS.
So when NS:S comes out, there is a reason to actually get NS:S besides just better graphics.
Edit: So now "Quote" doesn't automaticly quote the person that quoted another person? Boohoo. When I said "There isn't" I refered to Swiftspear's comment about DoD:S having more players than regular DoD.
A camera view_control entity attached to your players model at the head so when you die you see your ragdoll bouncing below you.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dystopia has that! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Oh, and that reminds me, I think it might be kind of cool to have your orientation change if you climb walls as a Skulk, like Dystopian cyberspace. I remember hearing puzl working on that for the current NS version, but I think it was halted or something.
a release date.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You want to be disappointed?
Dystopia has that! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Oh, and that reminds me, I think it might be kind of cool to have your orientation change if you climb walls as a Skulk, like Dystopian cyberspace. I remember hearing puzl working on that for the current NS version, but I think it was halted or something. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Last I remember, they decided against it, because they thought it would make people motion sick. (Although if you're easily motion sick, I've got to wonder why you would play an FPS...)
In a way, Dys' cyber space is a much less traumatic reorientation because (A) other than the tubes, you can see it coming, and (B) you don't have to deal with it if you're not a decker. At any point, the whole alien team will have been a skulk, and a skulk moves a heck of a lot faster than pretty much anything in any other mod currently.
A camera view_control entity attached to your players model at the head so when you die you see your ragdoll bouncing below you.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did I mention this would be first person?
- Flame laucher. That's almost a given. I have yet to see a well done volumetric flame laucher in a game, but I believe Source is capable of it. I always dreamed of immolating that vent in ns_nothing behind the resnode that leads to Cargo Bay. If the flames could progress realistically, it would be an amazing addition to the game.
- New core features seem essential. I'm not sure how integration/balance would work but NS:S has to go beyond better graphics. I can see that a port seems like the most viable option at the moment, but I would prefer fresh gameplay.
- NS:Combat should be secondary if even considered.
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pudgy.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::gorge::" border="0" alt="pudgy.gif" />
So people paying extra $$$ for just better graphics and minor tweaks to DoD = reason why DoD:S isn't as popular as DoD.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
those "minor tweaks" you refer to are the direct cause of why no one considers dod:s a valid competition platform
The idea of whether to remake NS or make a new game does seem a bit up in the air though. I know which I'd prefer <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> but I'd be interested to find out what you guys think.
Vote <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com:90/forums/index.php?s=410380904289524992&showtopic=98008" target="_blank">here</a>.
Sounds to me like you want to continue playing NS on half-life.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We want to continue playing ns with more players, and source is a good way to do that.
Something like this should be considered for the Player's Model(s) in NSS/NS².
But that is only my Dreaming =)
..no, this is not taken from Dystopia's Heavyarmor Model, I had this Idea way before I happened to see that Game in Action.
Games are supposed to be fun not slow & boring...
Stay to the original idea with adding new stuff to the arsenal of weapons and lifeforms and you'll be fine.
I want a nice game with cool ambient stuff, dark corridoors and all the things that made NS popular =)
Slow the game down? I disagree entirely although I guess its more of a preference thing than one where one of us is right and one is wrong.
Games are supposed to be fun not slow & boring...
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The games don't necessarily have to be boring if they are slow. Personally, for the RTS side of the game, I WOULD like to see longer games. It's all about balance though, since you still have the FPS element. You need games to be mediocore in length.
I don't want huge battles. This is not Counter Strike.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Counter-Strike was designed for 5on5 play. Natural Selection (correct me if I'm wrong here Charlie) was designed for 6on6 play. However, despite the gameplay imbalances inherent of playing with larger numbers of players than either game was designed for - we see both. 30+ man CS:Source servers are a common sight - just as much so are the 20+ man NS:Combat servers.
The point here is that you can hardly base your decision on what Joe Public decides to do with a completely different game, whilst completely disregarding it's balance and gameplay issues/design.
0/1/0 marines vs skulks wihtout upgrades is awesome.
I vote for more light marine vs skulk combat. The best part of the game is the first 4-5 minutes of NS anyway. The rest is just a transition until the start of the next round <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
0/1/0 marines vs skulks wihtout upgrades is awesome.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I *Slightly* agree with this.
The line between mid-game and end-game is blurred a little too much in NS. Something that needs to be fixed in NS2.
I vote for more light marine vs skulk combat. The best part of the game is the first 4-5 minutes of NS anyway. The rest is just a transition until the start of the next round <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
0/1/0 marines vs skulks wihtout upgrades is awesome.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Totally agree. It's a thinking man's shooter. The more cunning person will usually win in these fights, not the one with his ZOMGWTH bunnyhop from hell and chipmunk on caffeine reflexes.
I *Slightly* agree with this.
The line between mid-game and end-game is blurred a little too much in NS. Something that needs to be fixed in NS2.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The line isn't blurred at all, it's a HUGE SOLID RED line right at the 7 minute mark, if the second hive is up and finished then or before then you enter the endgame and aliens have won, if it does not you enter the endgame and the marines have won. It would be really nice if we could at least pretend there was a reason to keep playing the game past the second hive in NS2. It's entirely possible to do it in such a way that this is true, but it would require some design magic to make it realistic.