What Went Wrong?

Comments

• rebo Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2734Members

  November 2002 edited November 2002

  you only need to hold the hives long enough to get fully upgraded HA and HMG, its simple give your men welders dont engage the opostion, never chase. Weld weld weld, then when your in doubt weld again. As soon as the HA and HMG comes then go skulk hunting. =)
  
  oh and jetpacks are underated <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->

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• playerman Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7854Members

  November 2002

  So 6 guys were not enough to defend -two- bases -and- a bunch of resource nodes. that's not really a surprise to me.
  
  And indeed, the small aliens can be quite a pain. Just the other day me and some fellow skulks and lerks managed to hold out for quite a long time while HA marines tried to take the one hive we had.
  Don't underestimate the aliens desire to get their hive back. They care much more about their hives than about the marines' start base.

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• vvInter Join Date: 2002-11-11 Member: 8180Members

  November 2002

  The problem was: you were defending instead of setting an assault on their last hive.
  If you did that... the lerks wouldnt have their spike shooter anymore.
  
  And if they haven't breached the defences on another hive, they lose because they can't do anything with just biting on turrets, will only get themselves killed.
  
  And even if they had, it would take time to get that hive back online, till then they won't be able to respawn. So it will only get easier, and you will have enough time to retake that breached hive.
  
  Game over.
  
  Remember: Offence is the best defence.
  
  How to kill easy a lerk : Jetpack + shotty, incredible powerfull and underestimated. Kills a lerk with one blow.
  No Kharaa creature is able to do something against it except maybe a fade. And still a fade will have a hard chance against him, hitting a fast moving target + fade dies by 2 shottie hits (4 with lvl 3 carapace).
  
  
  Yours sincerely,
  
  Winter

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• Tomten Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8138Members

  November 2002

  Problem was probably that you didn't control the map. If you don't have a resource income, you loose. It doesn't mather if you got two hives if you can't afford to research and build more advanced armor/weapons, sooner or later they will just tear down your defenses.
  
  Personally I don't think NS_Nothing is a good map, It's very big and has many resource nodes, it favours aliens because they are faster and can travel over the map in seconds. It's way to easy for them to build resource nodes on some remote location, and that way gain an advantage over the marines. I've never really tried the map with my clan, but on public servers it's no fun at all.

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• bitnine Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9283Members

  November 2002

  I've had something similar happen to me. The aliens on ns_nancy went nuts on my team, killing most of them, then took one of the two hives back while we were respawning and most of them went fade. Well, we were in a bad spot and they were attacking us. But instead of worrying about our base and turtling up, we had 2 people stay in the hall to the bridge and the rest of the team just go to their other hive. We sieged the hell out of it and brought it down. Sure they'd just taken a hive, but they were back to only 1.
  
  That's in general what I'd suggest; the aliens can't be in two places any more than you can. Doing a little trade-off like that is generally in your advantage even, since it'll take the aliens a little while to grow up some defenses at their new (and now only) hive, and marines can focus and build very quickly.

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• padijun Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3419Members

  November 2002 edited November 2002

  Here's the basic recipe for marine loss at 2 hives:
  
  Aliens take defense and movement for the first 2 hives
  Marines have an average or below average commander
  Lerks and fades working in teams (umbra and acid rockets to hell thanks to adreneline)
  Poor marine equipment (IE deciding to turret farm instead of getting equipment, then having tricky aliens roll over the turret farms)
  
  It's rare, but that's generally the scenario.

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• UGLJon Join Date: 2002-11-04 Member: 6940Members

  November 2002

  There is no "lerk-proof" hive strat.

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• xBaD_AcCuRaCyx Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9265Members

  November 2002

  <!--QuoteBegin--padijun+Nov 24 2002, 07:56 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (padijun @ Nov 24 2002, 07:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Here's the basic recipe for marine loss at 2 hives:
  
  Aliens take defense and movement for the first 2 hives
  Marines have an average or below average commander
  Lerks and fades working in teams (umbra and acid rockets to hell thanks to adreneline)
  Poor marine equipment (IE deciding to turret farm instead of getting equipment, then having tricky aliens roll over the turret farms)
  
  It's rare, but that's generally the scenario.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
  I would have to agree with that recipe. Everytime I play as Marines, we give our trust and hope to the commander we just met 5 seconds ago. If I don't personally know them, either from my Internet Cafe or previously playing with them...I'll try and go Commander to make it easier on us. Nothing is worse then having a Noob Comm which happened to me once.
  
  Scenerio: Ns_Bast
  -game starts and a marine volenteers to be comm and claims to be good, i give him a chance...
  -he tells everyone to wait and gather in the middle
  -a few secs go by and he still doesn't have an infantry portal...
  -a few more secs and the marines complain...we try and kick comm
  -while doing that....the whole team of Kharaa Skulks pour in from the vents close to the CC (revolving door vent)
  -1/2 the team gets killed off before they knew what hit them
  -the rest starve off and get killed
  - no portals to respawn and at this point...pointless
  
  Back to the point about losing even after controlling 2 hives....it is quite common to see that. Most of the frontieermen i've played with and know, claim we need a auto-balance sort of like CS to keep the teams 2:3 with marines having the upper ratio. To meh, I don't think its the amount of players that counts, just the particapation, coordination and overall skill of the team. i personally would take 6 intermedate players i know on my local Internet Cafe which would mean ultimate cooperation since i can yell my orders across the room instead of 6 experts who don't comply and think their strat is better then everyone else.
  
  Ns_Nothing is not a bad map...just an unfriendly one. If you have a good comm and a great team, aliens will be constantly reacting and confused instead of plotting up for another assault on your CC on ANY map. expert aliens will make easy meals of marines, henceforth, expert marines will make green slime out of aliens. but i have yet to experiance both teams as expert...might be a draw.
  
  The lerk abilities usually put them as ranged units. I have yet to see a lerk try and use bite on a group of marines...why not spike them from afar or if u have the hives...why not have the fun and spore them and see them run? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
  
  i think the main deterant for lerks are small rooms and hallways, not a hive location because of the usual massive amount of places to hide. when i'm playing lerks, the spikes are mere nusiances rather then efficant killers. you might get a kill once in a while on an unweary un-armoredmarine but HA'ed ones are just a waste of energy. spores are one of my favorite cause it hurts, scares and there is no trail so you can cloak and fire them till fades come in to finish the job but at this point, they already lost. jus shoot at the lerk and don't chase. firstly, any lerk while lose a considerable amount of HP from even a lmg so a smart one will regen and MAYBE come back for more and the dumb ones just explode in a vent of green mess. secondly, chasing will only get you hurt yourself...either from ambush or spreading your lines to thin and they can simutaniously attack one of your bases. just keep the pressure on them at their last hive and they shouldn't cause any problems at their other lost 2 hives.

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• Destro Join Date: 2002-11-12 Member: 8336Members

  November 2002

  What you could try to do on viaduct is build a factory kinda in the hall just outside, and then build turrets and at least one siege turret, this will ensure if they sneak in they can't build crap anyway. It should be a bit harder for the lerks to take out too since they can't use the walkway.

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• Juji Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9153Members

  November 2002

  I think your problem might have been sending your whole team to one location, just to deal with a solo lerk.
  When your whole team got to one hive, 2 other aliens were attacking another hive.
  
  A better idea might have been to leave 2 marines at 1 hive, 2 at another and 1 at main and defend until you have enough upgrades to easily squash those lvl 1 aliens.
  
  Once you do, leave 2 marines behind (1 at each hive) and send the other 3 out to assualt the last hive. Lerks have very low hp, and even a few hits should scare it off, so you don't need that many marines to deal with them. It's when you leave them alone and attacking a tf that they can cause problems.
  
  Once you have your assualt team going to the last hive, things should quiet down at the other hives, as hopefully, your assault team is doing damage and forcing the aliens to defend instead of attack.

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• sender Join Date: 2002-11-12 Member: 8337Members

  November 2002

  This is probably the same as marines with no hives getting a siege base set up, taking 1 hive and then winning the map. Good work on the aliens part...I'm sure it must have sucked to lose at that point, but they also did a good job exploiting your weakness'.
  
  
  Anyhow, my suggestions on what you could have done is kept 1 marine at each hive (or 1 marine jumping between the two). The rest should have been setting up resource nodes/turret choke points. Did you only have 1 marine setting up each resource nozzle? I find that it's really hard to set up a base with less than 3 marines (2 building 1 gaurding or against really good skulks the opposite). Anyways, sounds like the aliens just got lucky/played as a team very well. Not much to do except applaud them.

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• Texas_Ranger Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9755Members

  November 2002

  When dealing with solo or 2 lerks I usually just send one or two marines to deal with them...
  When taking resource nodes I insist on having at least 2 marines there b4 I start building..
  When having problems with skulks/lerks attacking from vents moving etc, I wield shut all vents that can be wielded, research jetpacks and give them to everyone that knows how to use them, drop a few mines and tell my guys to mine all vents that cannot be wielded shut
  Also when you have two Hives it is good to take like one/two resources set up some defenses (say 5 mins ) and then go full offensive... You can send in marines with LMG's and take out the last hive and while they are fighting you can research better armor and guns and eventually (if it goes on that long) drop better stuff
  
  Also building two Phase gates at hives and 2 TF at hives can really save your **obscenity** sometimes
  
  I too have seen the game lost when we had two hives, from both the viewpoint of the marines and the aliens, its a learning process you just pick up the pieces and move on..
  Texas Ranger <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->

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• Ardesco Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7831Members

  November 2002

  Usually, when you take cargo bay and the Great Viaduct, and power silo is all that's left, I usually assign a smart marine to pickup a grenade launcher and a jetpack (usually the most skilled player on the team, or I ask for this equipment myself, since I try to do this when I'm not commandering). Power silo has really high ledges that can be exploited by any jetpacking grenadier--if the enemy gorges were not clever enough to build an offensive tower up there, then your jetpacker can simply fly up to a ledge (preferably the one that faces the power silo hive), and start shooting grenades at the thing until it dies. Even if there is an offensive tower or two, a couple of well-placed grenades while the jetpacker flies around should take it out (sounds a lot harder than it is...which is why your grenadier needs to be skilled). Easy counters to this is to simply get skulks to climb the wall and chomp the guy to death, which is usually why another jetpacker with an HMG should cover him (or alternatively, fire grenades AT the first grenadier so that any skulks going up to the ledge meets explosive death). If Power Silo is their last hive, opposition to this tactic once the skulks are dead is minimal, since most of them take splash damage from your grenades hitting the hive. I've pulled this off twice successfully on power silo, but that was mainly because the enemy opposition was totally disorganized by the time I launched the attack.

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