In Response To The "nerf The Weilder Posts"
Mr_Bean
Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7943Members
Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7943Members
<div class="IPBDescription">A Comparsion</div> Four Marines, HA with Weilders 25x4+25x4+10x4=240 RP(Acutal 244 for Spawn Cost)
VS 2 Fades + Upgrades(48x2)
1 Lurk Upgraded(38)
1 Gourge Upgraded(16)
96+38+16=150 RP or something like 62% Less than the Marines
Now then who takes more damage
With that Lurk Umbraing, The Fades Rocketing and the Gourge Healing? VS the Marines two Shooting two Weilding the others
Now then in dishing out damage you have a large advantage on the surface at least to the Marines with HMGs mean they rip out over a thousand Damage per Clip while Per 4 Shot Volly a Fade does a "Mear" 320 points of Splash Damage
The Weilder costs nothing to use and is effictly endless while the Gourge with upgrades can heal close a thousand points of damage before stoping oh AND they can Build healing chambers which heal 20 or so damage every second per chamber
Now then as to Acutal Damage during Combat if the Marines are soaking up a good 90% of the damage sent thier way while they have armor, on the other hand they are slow, unweidly and have terrible turn and reload rates
Meanwhile the Fades if they have Caprence are taking roughly 50% Normal Damage Before Umbra which acutal goes first so they take only 10% Normal damage from Bullets then 50% off that so roughly 5% Normal Damage or the 20 Damage HMG is doing 1 Damage a shot to them, or a Full HMG Clip Does 155 Damage to a Fade, Now then the Gourge can Heal 155 Damage with its AOE Healing Spray in roughly four Sprays and have another twenty to go while the Marines have to reload(If they are Reloading they are not weilding and if those are Weilding they are not shooting)
Now then from a damage output with the "Uber Weilding Combo" the Marines Outpace the Aliens by a HANDY Margin
However by SURVIABLITY the Aliens kick the Marines around by so much its not even Funny
Infact this very above Alien Combo this morning took SEVEN Marines with HMG To Overcome with two weilding and the Commander Spamming Ammo meaning Five HMG were needed to take out two Fades, in the Mean time they took four resource points and a hive back....
Fokes the Weilder is nice damage wise and decent at healing ARMOR, But then the Gourge Spray is better at healing(As it heals both)
The Weilder is poweful sure(It kills Resource Towers good as well as Hives) but you know what? The Aliens have better toys
Stop the Nerf Crys and start using tatics fokes and you will relise how pathetic the weilder is.
VS 2 Fades + Upgrades(48x2)
1 Lurk Upgraded(38)
1 Gourge Upgraded(16)
96+38+16=150 RP or something like 62% Less than the Marines
Now then who takes more damage
With that Lurk Umbraing, The Fades Rocketing and the Gourge Healing? VS the Marines two Shooting two Weilding the others
Now then in dishing out damage you have a large advantage on the surface at least to the Marines with HMGs mean they rip out over a thousand Damage per Clip while Per 4 Shot Volly a Fade does a "Mear" 320 points of Splash Damage
The Weilder costs nothing to use and is effictly endless while the Gourge with upgrades can heal close a thousand points of damage before stoping oh AND they can Build healing chambers which heal 20 or so damage every second per chamber
Now then as to Acutal Damage during Combat if the Marines are soaking up a good 90% of the damage sent thier way while they have armor, on the other hand they are slow, unweidly and have terrible turn and reload rates
Meanwhile the Fades if they have Caprence are taking roughly 50% Normal Damage Before Umbra which acutal goes first so they take only 10% Normal damage from Bullets then 50% off that so roughly 5% Normal Damage or the 20 Damage HMG is doing 1 Damage a shot to them, or a Full HMG Clip Does 155 Damage to a Fade, Now then the Gourge can Heal 155 Damage with its AOE Healing Spray in roughly four Sprays and have another twenty to go while the Marines have to reload(If they are Reloading they are not weilding and if those are Weilding they are not shooting)
Now then from a damage output with the "Uber Weilding Combo" the Marines Outpace the Aliens by a HANDY Margin
However by SURVIABLITY the Aliens kick the Marines around by so much its not even Funny
Infact this very above Alien Combo this morning took SEVEN Marines with HMG To Overcome with two weilding and the Commander Spamming Ammo meaning Five HMG were needed to take out two Fades, in the Mean time they took four resource points and a hive back....
Fokes the Weilder is nice damage wise and decent at healing ARMOR, But then the Gourge Spray is better at healing(As it heals both)
The Weilder is poweful sure(It kills Resource Towers good as well as Hives) but you know what? The Aliens have better toys
Stop the Nerf Crys and start using tatics fokes and you will relise how pathetic the weilder is.
Comments
Hmm... wouldn't a GL marine with welder back up be better for taking on that alien combo? It would negate the lerks umbras and do quite some damage. Well, maybe not just one GL marine, should have HMG's along with him too.
a fight cannot be calculated by mathematical equations
common sense has failed you<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
However, this is not a mathematical equation:
"Infact this very above Alien Combo this morning took SEVEN Marines with HMG To Overcome with two weilding and the Commander Spamming Ammo meaning Five HMG were needed to take out two Fades, in the Mean time they took four resource points and a hive back...."
Rather, it is a practical example. The numbers he used only help to prove his point. Also, gorges are good support, and not "easily killed" when behind two fades, and in umbra... and besides, even if they ARE killed, they've drawn a lot of fire, and healed a lot of damage done to the Fades.
Im not sure if your lying or exaggerating or both. 7 Marines with HA can kill anything with ease, Umbra or no.
Im willing to bet that what <b>actually</b> happened was, each Marine was firing off and ducking back. They were likely doing so a few seconds apart from eachother and in short bursts of fire. What you obviously didnt talk about here is the dozen defense towers behind the Fades.
You see, using commong sense, and in-game experience, I will tell you with great certainty: It is impossible to survive more then 5 seconds against 7 Marines firing HMGs simultaniously. Perhaps a Onos with Carapace and Umbra could do it, but I doubt even that.
I play a Fade every day, I don't last more then 3 seconds infront of a HMG. I have had Lurks with Umbra helping me before, and I still had to fall back to recover all the time.
I have tried Regeneration, Carapace, and Redemption, they are all essentially moot versus a HMG, they might buy you a few seconds. I usually go with Redemption, as there is a greater chance of me being ported back to hive then there is of killing a HMG Marine at any range.
Of course, I can virtually guerentee a kill on any Marine stupid enough to take potshots at me while im near defense chambers and they have no backup.
a fight cannot be calculated by mathematical equations
common sense has failed you<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then you have never played with good tactics. Gorges, provided they stick behind the Fades/Onos, and quite effective on the frontlines. Healing and webbing alone make wonderful tactics, and throwing in Babblers only makes it even sweeter.
-Ryan!
One of the indictments of civilizations is that happiness and intelligence are so rarely found in the same person.
-- William Feather
Ah, but Umbra blocks 6 out of every 7 bullets that might otherwise have hit you. This is not an insignificant amount.
-Ryan!
One of the greatest victories you can gain over someone is to beat him at politeness.
-- Josh Billings
no text needed, its FAR more common to see HMG/welders
then...
lerk UMBRAING that is lucky to not die from a stray 5 bullets
gorge that happens to be on front lines HEALING, but hidden EXACTLY in the back of fades
fades all grouped at the same spot with carapace/adrenaline<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Copy and paste from another post:
Simple fix for that.
Get Voice Comm or learn to type wicked fast, and COMMUNICATE.
With effective communication and a strong leader on the ground, this is a regular occurence. Very regular. As in, I see this in almost every game in which a few aliens have Voice Comm.
Not sure what you mean by the "No text needed" comment.
-Ryan!
Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer but wish we didn't.
-- Erica Jong
aliens can slap up tonnes of defence chambers just outside an enemy base or just outside siege turret range allowing a fade to fall back to that and go from nearly no health to full health in a matter of seconds. A marine can only have armour fix, health is usually harder to come by as the commander can not be everywhere at once.
A gorge supporting the fades is the equivalent of a welder wielding marine. Not sure why you feel the need to upset that balance...
You claim that all you have to do is get 2 fades, a lerk and a gorge together and you will be able to stop marines fully upgraded. I'm sorry, but I've never seen any thing close to team work this precise. In a clan match maybe, but not in the public games. I do see fully upgraded marines though, in just about every game I play in.
In conclusion, with extremely precise team work you might be able to take out those marines, but I've never seen it happen. Also, I think the welder should be used only as a defensive weapon. I have no problem with marines healing themselves, but it does way more damage than a knife or gun when you're fighting melee. The aliens were made to be melee, not the marines, and I believe it takes away from the concept of the game.
"the above is my opinion, so take it or leave it, just don't flame it." -- Me (loaded)
"If you see an *fully upgraded marine. You do what we do... Run." -- The matrix.
*Please note, I've made the necesary correction to the quote to make it compatible with NS.
What are both teams in the example doing?
Using Tatics.....
A Single Marine with HA,HMG and a Weilder can not take down four Fades all by himself, Why do you expect a Single Fade to take down Four Marines with HA, and HMGs?
Its called Balance
While 1 Fade Can rip apart a HA, HMG Marine, possibly two, he can't do three or Four(Unless he's realy good/acutal a Marine) Pound of Pound a Fade is better than anything else the Marines can put down on the Map, Even a fully upgrade HA, HMGer
Now then its no suprise when a single Marine looses, and looses baddly to the avarge alien, When you group up your power goes up by magintudes along with your suvivablity, The only way for Marines to survive Aliens like Fades/Onos is sticking togther, Why **obscenity** and whine when the Aliens relise they have to do the same to kill the Marines?
As for my Example Mndeg it was Tanaith, Reactor Room, Five HA marching down the Hallway above the Ladder Towards the Elavator with them standing on it with gourge healing and the Fades acid rocketing us as we came around the Corner and we still lost three fokes before we got both fades and the Gourge/Lurk Ran(One of the weilders and two shooters)
All in HA, all with HMGs, two weiding Five shooting and they still got three
a single HA + HMG marine should kill any fade he encounters in the open and with relative ease. the only thing going for a fade is his manoeuvrability with which he can retreat from combat whereas a wounded marine is far more vulnerable. Even then it's far too easy to die in seconds as a fade if you get caught in the open, corners are a fade's best friend. blink helps a bit too.
A big group of HA, HMG and welder marines can only be countered by a similiar group of advanced aliens. A single fade against three of the above marines should be prepared to harass them with acid blasts and to fall back until he gains some support and has a position he can fight from, i.e. near a row of d chambers.
English is not my first lanauge and spelling mistakes are common, I manage quite well don't you think?
Well apart from this dodgy American-English one. Colo<b>u</b>r. Harbo<b>u</b>r. Armo<b>u</b>r. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I can however swear at you in them and six more besides