New Phasegate
demm
Join Date: 2003-09-10 Member: 20714Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Diamond
Join Date: 2003-09-10 Member: 20714Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Diamond
<div class="IPBDescription">like a Portal</div>Hi.
I'd like to suggest that the phasegate gets changed to be more like a portal.
So instead of a platform you stand on it should be like a door you just walk through.
I guess most of you have seen the "Portals" trailer (the game will be included with the upcoming HL2:Episode 2) and get the idea of how I would like it to behave.
The main advantage could be, that you can see and even shoot through the portal. No more using the phasegate and getting instantly killed by nearby aliens.
Maybe there should be somekind of setting of the portal to allow all matter to pass through (marines, aliens, bullets, ...) or just marines (so that aliens/bullets trying to phase will get disintegrated). The mode could be made visible by the color of the event horizon of the portal.
Since portals only allow travel between two of them there would have to be some kind of way to allow marines to phase to multible locations. One solution could be some kind of console on the side of the portal that allows the marines to choose which counterpart phasegate should be active. Another way would be to make those portals relatively cheap but with a fixed link to another phasegate. (much like the nydus canal in Starcraft. You build one canal, once it is finished you can choose where the exit of this canal should be. When one of the two canals is destroyed the other one dies too.)
I think this new phasegate could create a lot fun gameplay options. Tell me what you think.
PS: Just to show you how some old (~1970) sci-fi artists drew such portals:
<img src="http://www.perry-rhodan.net/pics/protected/materietransmitter.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
I'd like to suggest that the phasegate gets changed to be more like a portal.
So instead of a platform you stand on it should be like a door you just walk through.
I guess most of you have seen the "Portals" trailer (the game will be included with the upcoming HL2:Episode 2) and get the idea of how I would like it to behave.
The main advantage could be, that you can see and even shoot through the portal. No more using the phasegate and getting instantly killed by nearby aliens.
Maybe there should be somekind of setting of the portal to allow all matter to pass through (marines, aliens, bullets, ...) or just marines (so that aliens/bullets trying to phase will get disintegrated). The mode could be made visible by the color of the event horizon of the portal.
Since portals only allow travel between two of them there would have to be some kind of way to allow marines to phase to multible locations. One solution could be some kind of console on the side of the portal that allows the marines to choose which counterpart phasegate should be active. Another way would be to make those portals relatively cheap but with a fixed link to another phasegate. (much like the nydus canal in Starcraft. You build one canal, once it is finished you can choose where the exit of this canal should be. When one of the two canals is destroyed the other one dies too.)
I think this new phasegate could create a lot fun gameplay options. Tell me what you think.
PS: Just to show you how some old (~1970) sci-fi artists drew such portals:
<img src="http://www.perry-rhodan.net/pics/protected/materietransmitter.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
Comments
having marines shoot through the portal or nade-spam through it doesnt sound like fun.
<!--quoteo(post=1591617:date=Dec 23 2006, 01:02 PM:name=waterbuster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(waterbuster @ Dec 23 2006, 01:02 PM) [snapback]1591617[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
having marines shoot through the portal or nade-spam through it doesnt sound like fun.
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that's the reason the gate should have two operational settings. Either only marines can go through (no bullets, no aliens) or everthing can. So nade-spamming shouldn't be too much of a problem because the aliens can easily walk through the phasegate.
Now, what if the commander could designate what portals go where. What if he could even establish multiple phase gates within an area. Meaning, what if he had the reosurces to make 2 of these portal/phase gates in Marine start, one that transfers between hive #1(back and forth), and the other one also transfer back and forth to Hive #2.
This calls for 4 phase gates, which is more expensive, yet if he wants marines to go directly from spawn to Hive #2, the marines wont have to phase twice. I think both ways would desired, so, giving the commander the ability to just "link" the phase gates, determine which gates point to what, and being able to make 2 phase gates link to each other, with the presense of other phase gates on the field, would be cool.
Now I really like the portal idea for the phase gates, some problems you might run into through would be:
If its a fixed two dimensional gate (you enter it from one side, or the other) I wonder how you would approach aliens that are biting or slashing it on the other side. The aliens would only have to bite both sides to effectively cover it. Where as now we have a platform that allows marines to jump or enter in any direction they want.
So I would propose this:
At first when you said "portals" I instantly thought of the game (which is really cool) and I imagined that since the phase portal(New name!) needs to be a structure, or built somehow, it would have like a casing around the portal(imagine Stargate SG-1 or something). This would make the portal 2 dimensional, and you have to enter it from both sides.
What if instead, the commander would drop like a cube or even a little platform on the ground, and it would project a 2D portal face, yet as you strafe around the platform the portal would face you(like some flat vertical sprites do now in the HL engine). The visual would be client side, so, you wouldn't watch another marine strafe around the gate, and watch the gate face him, it would always face you. This would be cool, by theory, you could strafe around the platform, be able to see through the portal, and check out an entire say, hive, just by strafing around the portal thats in marine start. How you would visually present how the portal appears on the otherside, I dont know. Unless you make the portal appear like an Egg, or a sphere. And you could see into that room just from the other side. That would be a crazy and cool visual part of the game... how server intensive? Probably a lot, but if the NS2 team could develop something like that, and display it like they did with Dynamic Infestation, I would imagine the game would start getting a lot of attention.
I would imagine the the portals could be "shielded" in the same way as the <i>Stargate</i> is, untill a Marine "uses" the gate to open the shielding of both the entrance and destination portals. This way, you could have the portals able to transport anything through it, including bullets and Kharaa. So if you kept it open to shoot at something, you'd be likely to get a mass of skulks on your face from the other side very quickly.
--Scythe--
It would take one marine to ninja one up and another five with GLs at the ready to take down a hive in under five seconds.
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This already works with the current phasgate...
If the shooting through the phasegate is really an issue, it could be removed. The new phasegate would still have the advantage of seeing through and would also look really good.
Also what Harrower said sounds like a good idea
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... slow everything down when it's entering the portal ... nades wouldn't get very far at all
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So you could shoot an alien directly in front of the gate, but would never be able to hit a hive hanging from the ceiling.
--Scythe--
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?s=266563443212687392&showtopic=99066" target="_blank">Obscure Rediculous Ideas?</a>
It started with "Imagine fade blink in combination with portals" and I had the following thoughts:
-One alien can create portals on walls (3rd or 4th weapon) and I'd like to see the fade or lerk doing this or some other mobile, supportive alien. Gorge would be even better maybe, because it isn't that mobile to quickly create portals which greatly decrease travelling time.
-There can only be created two portals at once , both entrance and exit, and you can see the other side through them like in "portals".
-You have to create both portals in a certain (short) amount of time or the first one will vanish.
-The portals stay for, rough said, 20-30 seconds and their appearance starts to change the last 5 seconds to alert the aliens.
-There has to be a max. distance between both portals (max ~500 Units?) to avoid deeper balance issues.
-All aliens can see and use the portals, marines can only see a ~90% invisible portal without being able to watch through it on the other side or use it.
-Observatory doesn't effect the portal, but a scanner sweep in range destroys it and thus both portals.
-Both teams can't shoot through them on the other side??
I like the idea of marines being able to see whats going on at another phasegate, although you could argue that the comm is supposed to tell marines about camped phasegates (or to sell them) and that marines deserve to die, if the phasegate isn't guarded,
but imho the outer appearance of portals fits more to aliens.
This would give the aliens only a kind of phasegate, which rather shortly supports an assault or battle instead of giving the aliens a way to travel like marines.
that's the reason the gate should have two operational settings. Either only marines can go through (no bullets, no aliens) or everthing can. So nade-spamming shouldn't be too much of a problem because the aliens can easily walk through the phasegate.
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Please take note:
*switch turns on*
*marine team fires through the portal*
*all aliens dead*
Strategically speaking, the portal itself would be a "bottleneck". This is when a defending team can fire at that one spot, and keep the whole team at bay, because that one spot is the only way through. And please remember aliens are mostly melee, so unless they have a lerk(and I doubt gas goes through event horizons..) they are going to die in a hail of gunfire.
bottleneck > aliens. Even if aliens could get through that portal, the problem of the bottleneck(even if its 30 feet wide and 90 feet tall) and focus fire would still present itself. HMG+portal = lose.
edit: I also forgot to mention how A team of marines can go through a single portal being attacked with nades out, and clear out anything lower than an onos. Earlier today in a g4b2s server, this happened to kill 5 fades because 9 marines phased through and spammed hand gernades.
Sorry, I should've added "With no risk to the marines".
--Scythe--
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You're forgetting that the Kharaa would be able to pass through the gate aswell, that's hardly "no risk", is it?
There's all kinds of things the Kharaa would be able to counter it with. OCs, Gorge spit, bilebombs, umbra, spores, acid rockets....
And let's not forget the gate would be destroyable aswell!
<!--quoteo(post=1591945:date=Dec 24 2006, 06:39 PM:name=waterbuster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(waterbuster @ Dec 24 2006, 06:39 PM) [snapback]1591945[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Please take note:
*switch turns on*
*marine team fires through the portal*
*all aliens dead*
Strategically speaking, the portal itself would be a "bottleneck". This is when a defending team can fire at that one spot, and keep the whole team at bay, because that one spot is the only way through. And please remember aliens are mostly melee, so unless they have a lerk(and I doubt gas goes through event horizons..) they are going to die in a hail of gunfire.
bottleneck > aliens. Even if aliens could get through that portal, the problem of the bottleneck(even if its 30 feet wide and 90 feet tall) and focus fire would still present itself. HMG+portal = lose.
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With the sphere-like portal, no bottleneck would exist, because the portal would be 360 degrees wide. If the marines are shooting at one direction, the Kharaa could just circle around to the other side, hop in, and eat the marines when they're reloading. I would imagine that the image of the other side would be distorted and dark, so the marines couldn't easily see if an alien is about to crawl in.
The function of phase gates should remian the same, how they look, and how they can be enhanced is what we should aim to settle on.
Strategically speaking, the portal itself would be a "bottleneck". This is when a defending team can fire at that one spot, and keep the whole team at bay, because that one spot is the only way through.
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That's true, but the bottleneck could easily be destroyed if all marines stay on the other side of the portal and don't walk trough, because if they all shoot through the gate, they all shoot in one direction. So the aliens just have to attack the portal from behind and destroy it.
Also don't forget that the marines can't create those portals magicly, they still have to build them. So if an alien team is stupid enough not to notice the marines building a gate in direct visual range of the hive, ... well then they should get punished for that.
The only way to really know if shooting through the gate would be an unfair advantage for the marines is to try it. And even if it turns out to be, then the feature could easily be disabled and we would still have a really good looking new gate. I say, let's use some of the graphics power the Source engine provides!
And let's not forget the gate would be destroyable aswell!
With the sphere-like portal, no bottleneck would exist, because the portal would be 360 degrees wide. If the marines are shooting at one direction, the Kharaa could just circle around to the other side, hop in, and eat the marines when they're reloading. I would imagine that the image of the other side would be distorted and dark, so the marines couldn't easily see if an alien is about to crawl in.
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If the gate was destroyable and yet having 360 degrees of vision/firing capabilites, we would have a worse problem.
We would have idiots running in circles on both sides of the gate, trying to target the aliens around the gate.
Also, this would mean we would have to attack(aliens) a seperate power generator. Assuming it would be under the spherical portal, it would be easy to destroy the gate then. But then we involve nades, and lobbing them from above the gate becomes a problem. I will laugh in joy as marines try to nade from above or below the gate to shrug off aliens.
@demm
Assuming the portal would have the same properties as the source portal maker, we would be in deep onos doodoo. Being able to see through the portal still causes problems.
A mobile PG DOES sound interesting however....
If marines don't notice DI could spread out from the portal infesting important areas like marine spawn.
No more using the phasegate and getting instantly killed by nearby aliens.
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That's a good thing about the current pg, not a bad thing. If you lose your ground enough to allow aliens to surround the pg then you SHOULD die when you phase through, it would be horrible if you could easily retake the pg when it's surrounded by aliens.
What i'd like the see is, pg's arn't turned on all the time.
When you walk up to a pg and use it a small map pops up displaying your teams pg's on the map. You click one and the pg switches on and the portal opens.
The portal stays open for 20 seconds before it closes.
You can't open a portal to a phasegate that's already activated.
Any living thing can pass through the portal, alien or marine. However only a marine can activate the portal.
projectiles don't go through, (i said: any LIVING thing).
When you step through your vision is slightly distorted for a second or 2 when you come out.
As for visuals, i'd love it if they could make the portal look similar to the oblivion gates in oblivion. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />. I don't think you should be able to see through it to the other side though. I prefer the idea of stepping through blind and having to take a second or 2 to get your bearings.
And with the vision blur, i only mean slightly just to add to the feel of it. Not enough to disorient the player.
<a href="http://imageshack.us" target="_blank"><img src="http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/4583/portalcn8.png" border="0" alt="IPB Image" /></a>
When active, the aliens could hide behind the pillar thingy on the back to destroy it.
The "shielding" which was mentioned earlier would just envelope the whole portal in a metal curtain, making it look like a big metal ball so nothing could pass through it.
with a portal there is no room for telefragging! (must admit that is pretty funny at times),besides half the charm with phasegates are they arent too visible.
a big portal might be more visible and thus more proned to ruin surprise assaults <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
But I have to agree, that it's part of the phasegate to guard it properly or risk to die after phasing.
The phasegate apparently uses some strange nanite technology, but the "portal" type gate would be something completely different, I'd guess.
The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to feel a portal like that would be something used for cargo transport from cargoship to another, or from space stations to planetary stations and vice versa. Whereas the personal phasegate would be just for quickly getting infantry from point A to point B over short distances, which is what it does currently.
Few pointers:
2 people entering at same time block each other from teleporting.
The reason with the original portal was to block your sight from what is going on, the comm has to tell you, it adds a bit to the chaos ns has.
How would it handle multiple portals? A slideshow?
Just to show you how some old (~1970) sci-fi artists drew such portals:
<img src="http://www.perry-rhodan.net/pics/protected/materietransmitter.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
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man, i DISLIKE this idea. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
It dosn't really fit the NS universe, I dunno it just looks wrong to have a upstanding portal in NS.
Few pointers:
2 people entering at same time block each other from teleporting.
The reason with the original portal was to block your sight from what is going on, the comm has to tell you, it adds a bit to the chaos ns has.
How would it handle multiple portals? A slideshow?
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valid points. the whole portal idea is just stupid. if a mapper wants to add one like in the NS-stargate custom map, then cool, go nuts. but phase gates that marines construct should remain the same.
The warp would always be open in my view of the gate. However, you would not see a seamless picture from one side to the other; but rather, a small, fluctuating "hallway" type thing; like a wormhole. This way, any thing in the game can enter through the portal. Once they are through the portal completely, the portal starts pulling them towards the other side; bullets, aliens, and marines. HOWEVER, once in the middle of this "warpway", the portal analyzes what is going through. If it is Alien or something that shouldn't go through, it ejects it backwards rapidly; out the side it enters.
This would mostly be purely visual, but it would be hilarious to see bullets that are fired into the portal come flying back out in various directions, and would add to the general appeal/coolness factor. It also serves a function to prevent you from getting a full 180 degree view of both sides of the portal, even though the portal machine is basically flat. Aliens could also jump in them to get a slightly wider view of the other side, or just to see what would happen; it is more fun to be ejected from a huge portal than for the Marines to use their black tech magic to warp.
The other advantage to double sided warp gates is multi-directional warp throughout the PG network. With two sides, a commander could customize each warpgate, so it could lead out the other side of its own gate, make a few gates in the marine spawn go everywhere, and even shut off a side of a gate to help facilitate Marine movement.