What the heck happened to my NS?
parrotpatrol
Join Date: 2006-12-23 Member: 59205Members
Join Date: 2006-12-23 Member: 59205Members
Is it just me or does anyone miss the old NS? I just came back after a LONG LONG LONG hiatus, years, (pre combat!) and I realised that the games don't last as long as they used to. The good old NS games would last as long as 2-3 hours! 3 hours of epic back and forth action! But nowadays it seems like all the matches end in 15 minutes. I can't even get my rythym going before the match is over. And is it just me or do the fades seem more powerful than even the Oh-noes? It seems like the only thing that can bring down a fade is lag, while onos present a huge, slow moving target. Of course, this was always the case, but it seems doubly so now.
Comments
We've moved on to better things such as xmenu level 99 build menu block script combat ns. Enjoy your stay.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Who is we, cause i don't certainly play on a server using a external plugin to modify the game, so its played not the way its meant to be played.. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/marine.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::marine::" border="0" alt="marine.gif" />
Did they ever fix that thing where I would go into a vent with a bunch of defense chambers and hide for the entire game? I certainly hope not, nothing is more fun than playing some NS hide and seek. With siege cannons.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't tell whether this is being worded sarcastically or as a direct question. Hide and seek is fun. "Finish being sought after, and sit in one spot wasting other people's time" tends to be the opposite.
As for what "happened" to NS since then: for better or worse, the answer is "plenty." You may feel frustrated with it at first, but if you approach it with a different mindframe/gameplay style, we hope you'll find the changes refreshing, interesting, and enjoyable <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
We've moved on to better things such as xmenu level 99 build menu block script combat ns. Enjoy your stay.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This man spits the truth.
Also, the NS playerbase has become much more skilled at actually playing the game. This means there's much fewer opportunities for last-minute comebacks because both teams are expecting this and are checking for that stealth hive or sneaky relo.
Fast games are a symptom of both factors. If you get a server full of people that have never played NS you can have some really, really long games that go back and forth.
--Scythe--
Did they ever fix that thing where I would go into a vent with a bunch of defense chambers and hide for the entire game? I certainly hope not, nothing is more fun than playing some NS hide and seek. With siege cannons.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If all the hives go down, you steadily take damage as an Alien.
So, no hide and seek, while your team afks in boredom.
<!--quoteo(post=1591751:date=Dec 24 2006, 12:14 AM:name=parrotpatrol)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(parrotpatrol @ Dec 24 2006, 12:14 AM) [snapback]1591751[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
What ever happened to the first minute base relocates to a alien hive?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Happens all the time on the G4BRS server.
Hell, we had an early game Gorge rush against the spawn too ;D
Marines repelled it with handgrenades, and lots and lots of beaconing.
But wow it sure was bloody with all those OCs.
my tacktic with this is usaly pick some where to ambush from take out a few riens in the area then groge it up for some lasting defence protect it long enough to go some where else usaly clseo by and gorge that area up as well.
others how ever use it to keep there fade and lurks going
yes ono's is now a hit and run unit, me i ether use it in a few ways, stealth with silence walking the whole time, siting at a T section with bends and ill devo the last rine stop the rest then run off reset, maybe gore one or two if i feel lucky and know there mc's around,
way two cat and mouse, take adren scent and redemp, and start hiting rine res stay away from as many dots as possable if you see a dot come at you drop said res node if you can if not run
other use it by shoveing mc's up ther rectum, cel regen and prolly focus they charge in gore gore stomp charge out with little to no res, that or they act as a road block to a hive entrance
upgrade dont cost res for aliens a great thing, rines still hold ange superiority, prolly also a great thing
chamber dont stack like they used to but if your lucky enough you can still stack them on the very edges
seige guns dont hurt aliens if they stahd near structures, very good, gorges can heal them selves OMG yes, note rines hate this a couple of gorges full blow heal if they get a mc up they can ring around a rosy heal nothign can touch them and drop oc's in rine start, its like a shot gun rush
SC's now have a static scent of fear range, DC stamina are now stronger, lurk got his bite back i dont know when you played last, he also has a new flying system as apose to the flying turret of mosquito like spikes
pheramones has been removed a change i wasnt to keen on cos all tho it some times got in the way pheramones was sometimes better to keep track of a rine espasaly if there are multiple coridors next to each other, focus is nice to, halfs your attack speed but like double triples you damage or what *note just make sure you land your first bite with a para before hand
games are faster but there are still some 1.04 servers running around or even better, newer servers with out RFK, rfk is what really speeds up the game
rines still turtle like ######
most of the maps are still the same, i would sugest playing some combat get the feel back for your aliens
only take 3 upgrades like you would in classic tho ya wouldnt want to spoil ya self then go back to classic
yes the ping of death is still in game and a good shake will still last a while how ever rines know exsackly were out are and will take the shortest rougte to get to you and take your ###### out
the game is faster, but its still ok its just the slipry slope of doom but if both teams are good long games happen
oh and welcome back to the community
<!--coloro:orange--><span style="color:orange"><!--/coloro-->*snip* Semorghope, be nice. Or if you're going to offer this sort of response, at least do so in PM to avoid interrupting the flow of the thread with something so user- and post-specific.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
A word of advice: some people here are very, very defensive about the current version of NS and you'd be better off not trying to argue with them. Especially when it comes to R4K. Trust me. Fortunatly, the new forums feature an "ignore user" function.
My opinion is that people like me who prefered the game the way it was (full fledged RTS/FPS hybrid) were drowned out by the people who were frustrated that their mad FPS skills alone couldn't win the game. The result? A game that is, as annother poster put it, much more like TFC (FPS with occasional structure building).
A word of advice: some people here are very, very defensive about the current version of NS and you'd be better off not trying to argue with them. Especially when it comes to R4K. Trust me. Fortunatly, the new forums feature an "ignore user" function.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't understand the basis of your complaint. The people who can kill better will win the game over the people who can't, regardless of teamwork.
Specifically between 1.04 and 2.0 there was concerted effort to remove a lot of the time where the players were playing "against" Walls of Lame and Turret Farms, and weren't really facing off against each other. I can't find the exact quote, but Flayra described it really well at the time with a sentiment that was roughly "we've all had those 45 minute battles for one res node on ns_nothing. Our goal was to compress the action and gameplay of those long games into shorter ones."
A lot of people, myself included aren't really intersted in fighting primarily against static defenses. I (we?) want to play against other players, not stand behind corners emptying clip after clip into an endless sea of structures all game long. To achieve this you have to place more emphasis on Player on Player interaction, which is obviously going to shift attention away from mass dropping of static buildings that do the battle for you. But that doesn't mean the RTS element is gone.
You could remove the Commander entirely from the game, servers with /buildmenu show you how it could be done. But it plays an extremely critical role in NS, its just that most of his (or her) job isn't directly about the battle, its about supporting the other players on the team while they are in combat. Obviously the game is heavily skewed towards the FPS elements, but since all but 1 person on the team are directly interacting with the game as an FPS, that only makes sense.
I can't tell whether this is being worded sarcastically or as a direct question. Hide and seek is fun. "Finish being sought after, and sit in one spot wasting other people's time" tends to be the opposite.
As for what "happened" to NS since then: for better or worse, the answer is "plenty." You may feel frustrated with it at first, but if you approach it with a different mindframe/gameplay style, we hope you'll find the changes refreshing, interesting, and enjoyable <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nope, gorge love nests were great fun <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Especially, with the right people.
When the knifing heavy train, is crawling slowly down a vent and the fatties are spitting for their lives, then you have NS at its best <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
But yeah, prolonging every game sucks, but having a hideout after a long battle is great, cause you have 1-2 minutes to relax and prepare yourself for the next round.
From my perspective (and obviously its going to be biased towards current gameplay) the change wasn't to shift it from a RTS/FPS hybrid (which it definetly still is), but instead it was a condensing of what was generally very long lapses of very little player interaction.
Specifically between 1.04 and 2.0 there was concerted effort to remove a lot of the time where the players were playing "against" Walls of Lame and Turret Farms, and weren't really facing off against each other. I can't find the exact quote, but Flayra described it really well at the time with a sentiment that was roughly "we've all had those 45 minute battles for one res node on ns_nothing. Our goal was to compress the action and gameplay of those long games into shorter ones."
A lot of people, myself included aren't really intersted in fighting primarily against static defenses. I (we?) want to play against other players, not stand behind corners emptying clip after clip into an endless sea of structures all game long. To achieve this you have to place more emphasis on Player on Player interaction, which is obviously going to shift attention away from mass dropping of static buildings that do the battle for you. But that doesn't mean the RTS element is gone.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Isn't putting more emphasis on player-on-player interaction exactly what he said, turning away from the RTS part in favour of more FPS? Instead of the teams gameplan being the crucial factor in victory, its the teams capabilaty to shoot/bite/move in a certain way that decides victory. If a team cannot shoot, the commanders plan will not work as the team finds itself slaughtered when they face a opponent with superior reflexes.
Currently, both teams hinge on the team's FPS part for a strategy to succeed, imo Marines should focus more on how the commander plans the game, and executes that plan that decides victory, rather than individual marines shooting skill possibly deciding the game, while aliens should be the ones with more focus on FPS(as exampled by a mobile builder unit instead of a commander, and i remember many early quotes about developers saying that aliens should focus more on the individual, while marines should work as a team, that is not true currently).
Right now, NS is exactly like a shooter, with some strategy thrown in on the side. Each team needs many individuals with great(or even extreme in some cases) reflexes, without those individuals there, the team looses for certain no matter what strategy you have laid out before you.
1. Marines got a two hive lockdown during the early game, which was almost impossible for skulks to break. Marines would get tech up and then finish off the aliens some 15-30 minutes latter.
2. Marines would jetpack HMG/siege the second hive before it finished, lock it down, then finish off the aliens 5-10 minutes latter.
3. Aliens would complete their second hive, get fades with acid rocket (which was stronger then most marine guns) and finish off the marines (even if they had jetpack HMGs) some 30-60 minutes latter.
The only time games could really go back and forth were after the second hive went up, but before the fades came online. This "back and forth" situation couldn't even last very long. If the marines got the hive, any remaining fades became useless, preventing an alien comeback[1]. If the fades came online they would break the siege or kill the jetpack HMGers and the marines couldn't really comeback. With res overflow it was possible for fades to start evolving as soon as the hive was finished.
So, what has changed? What is different now? The points in the game which can go "back and forth" are longer. Fades can start coming online before the second hive is finished and be useful without their second have ability. This means that aliens have many more ways to break a two hive lock down. They can also recover should their second hive be killed before it completes. Fades themselves are also weaker to marine proto-tech and can be killed by simple shotguns. The skill of the people playing the game can effect the outcome for a greater period of the game. In 1.0x a one hive fade couldn't stop a jetpack HMG rush, but now (if the fade is extremely skilled) they could. In 1.0x hordes of proto-level marines could be killed by acid rocket. Now skilled proto-level marines can kill two-hive fades.
[1] I am not attempting to exaggerate to make my point. I am well aware that comebacks were logically possible in 1.0x. I am just saying that such comebacks were rare to such an extreme degree that the possibility of one happening was negligible.
There are a few good servers still, that you can play on, depending on your geographic location.
I feel that the Devs kinda sold out with Combat. The reason I always liked NS is because the strategy element is because it kept the counter strikers from showing up to play. Before, it was all tea and crumpets, and now its cocaine and needles. I don't even know what I'm saying anymore, its friggin 3am. But I'm sure at least one of you understands what I'm saying.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i definitely feel you bro. it definitely had a higher fun factor that is now somewhat missing in the current version.
I like fighting static structures!
They're the only ones I can hit. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
And I've heard even ocs warp on spanish servers <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":0" border="0" alt="wow.gif" />
-------------------------
the slippery slope isnt that slippery anymore in 3.2, and yes you do need more than "mad fps skills" to win. there's strategy in ns, and there's tactics. if you don't understand this by now then i honestly dont know what i or anyone else could possibly do to help you.
See if you can get a slot on Guns4Back2School Classic for the best idea of what modern NS is suppsoed to be. I think they run the least gameplay-ruining mods, and their stable player base is pretty friendly.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I certainly don't think 15v15 is the best idea ever conceived for modern NS.
I certainly don't think 15v15 is the best idea ever conceived for modern NS. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
QFT. Try tacticalgamer for some awesome games(45 minute games are still a reality, ive seen 6 hives go down and still won as an alien), although thats pretty much just 3.2 now, or jigglypuff's jigglyroom for a 100% unmodified ns, although more pub-level teamwork.
I pretty much wont play on any classic server with more than 18 players, its horrific.
We are trying our best to recreate the success it had in its heyday while at the same time minimize some of the flaws that it currently experienced over the past few months.
There are players on right now, I recommend giving it a shot.