Offense chamber lock on = slow
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Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
They are a bit ineffective at stopping marines that pass by, since they block eachothers shot and "turn" too slowly. In case you hadn't noticed, OC's have to turn to fire at enemies, just like turrets, but there's no visible indication for it. I'm not sure if they rotate automatically as well, but they're just as slow to lock on as <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/turret.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::sentry::" border="0" alt="turret.gif" />... and thus we arrive at my question:
If OC turn time was removed, so they practically lock on and fire as soon as a marine comes within line of sight, would that make them too good? What about halving it?
If OC turn time was removed, so they practically lock on and fire as soon as a marine comes within line of sight, would that make them too good? What about halving it?
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secondly i sort of dont know the stance on the OC's RoT RoF and or projectile speed, i havent noticed much change on them thru out the years, all i know is a wall of them is great if they are cloaked and a unsuspecting rine comes running blindly around the courner, the delay on them is perfect hes ran to far out to keep running he ran to far out to turn back and theres no time for come to get to him and med him.
how ever from that second on one can almost garrentee every rine on the board knows they are there, how many at the last time of contact and support from gorges or additional structures E.g SC
now any to all that res there is now basicly useless cos from that momment on even if you built 6+ there rines with com support and or multiple rine Bhoping evadeing can effectively stear past OC's slip content and all that res become's a static wall of why the hell did i even bother
full till sulk bhoping with celerity and leaping over turrets and around the courner will still take a niffy chunk of ones health out enough to take said sulk out of the game long enough to have to regen it back
now admitedly sulks ment to be the agile one, but bare in mind hes not building a phase gate in a hive, along time ago the hive voice command was sugested on OC for OC's fireing with a set of hive sight icons,
at least i would like to see current oc Rate of Turn speeds uped, cos your correct align they are dodgeing damage and skiping content while i waste 80+ res, *note i am not running off and leting stationay defence do my job ill sit there as a gorge and defend said huge crippaling road block for all its worth, but theres nothing a gorge can do ahead of the OC's around the courner where rines cluster, or around the courner past oc's where rines skatter to find a hive
No thanks...
Since Alien is my favorite class I kinda have to vote for that too ^^ <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Static ranged defense that acquires and tracks targets better than a player ever can?
No thanks...
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Yes please. Well OK not really, but don't you agree the current OC's are useless and laughable?
OC's do a "fair" job of slowing down a marine rush by a few seconds, but once spotted you're lucky if it gets 1 hit in before it goes down. It's not an offensive chamber - it's a static tank which does nothing but soak up damage. Turrets are <b>way</b> more effective, specially since aliens lack ranged attacks able to gank the turrets (without being hit)... Exception of course being endgame gorge/fade.
Yesterday two marines, me being one of them, took down ~4-5 OC's located in the same room and we didn't get hit once.
Now, that's not an e-peen statement. I suck. And these things still didn't stop me. Just to show how sad these things are.
So...
Did they protect the area? No.
Did they serve any purpose at all, except to annoying us? No.
Did the gorge who built them waste his RES? Most definitely Yes.
Lets see now... Instead of wasting time building that "defense" he could have gone fade and killed both of us, if not more, and actually stopped us from getting into that still unbuilt hive. Why a hive is unbuilt when a gorge is running around wasting RES on OC's is beyond me, but hey. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Turrets need higher life forms to take more damage to destroy them, OCs just need someone with some ammo to hide round the corner out of range and shoot the base <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
Bring back the RTS in ns, please.
I'm not saying that OC should get a huge buff, but at least make them worth the cost and generally used (a lot) more!
It's there, taking up space in the pop-up menu. A smart gorge doesn't touch it, and that limits choices.
If i Drop a couple, I'm doing it to have an alarm of sorts, create an ambush point, or guide the rines to different route. Pending the map and location, I am more likely to place several along a path (for those that run past it) than just a "gate"
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The point is that for this function, OCs are too expensive to be worthwhile unless the aliens are loaded with res. They're just a luxury for rich teams.
OC's have proved themselves to be quite useless in tight competitive games (pub or not). Res flow just does not allow for such a low damage, high cost unit to be deployed. Upgrade chambers are nearly always a better option for the same res.
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Not really true, they're quite useful under certain circumstances.
I find OCs to be just fine. If anything, it seems as though most people dont know how to use them properly. OC placement is critical, and there are varing styles. The vast majority of players seem to drop them wherever they happen to be standing when they decide to drop them. A lot of players 'think' about it for a second and put them inside rooms, so that marines are already in the room when they start getting hit, and then have to hold rather vulnerable spots in the entrances while they shoot the OCs using the wall.
But IMO, the absolute best OC placement hold the longest line of sight (LOS) possible. If you have a corner, put the first right at the corner so it can hold both hallways. Then put another one diagonally behind it so that both can shoot down each hallway. THAT will hold off marines.
The thing about OCs, too, is that while they are generally slightly annoying (or actually useful with good placement), with a gorge nearby, their use multiplies. Not only can they not die simply from corner shooting, but they provide cover for a gorge (who can also see through them), incite many marines to do a suicidal rush on the gorge (a good spitter and ring-around-the-OC'er doesnt have problems with this), and can simply stop marine progress.
I do love going against isolated OCs as a marine with ammo. Using corners, they're easy to take out, and solo OCs can be taken out skilfully by knowing their turning rate and some guesstimation. Its skill though, not luck. And its fun.
But toss in a gorge or any kind of lifeform nearby and OCs do plenty. They really are a beautiful mirror of turrets, because each is still different but balanced. OCs have projectiles, but their aim cant be seen. Turrets are instant-hit, but their aim is visible. OCs are placed anywhere, turrets depend on the TF. OCs make marines vulnerable by expending their clip in open areas, and turrets make aliens vulnerable by keeping them in the open (ring-around-the-turret) against ranged enemies. Both cost roughly the same. Perhaps, PERHAPS, lower the cost to 9, like turrets. But that should be all.
When it comes down to it, they're fun, too.
makes oc's cost 5 res, make them small things that can be stuck on the wall. half their hp or something but leave their dps the same.
or maybe just half everything. 5 res, half hp, half damage (meh). 5 res is cheap and a gorge will feel safer with a little oc by them. whether its affective or not i dont know, but with half dmg they will be pretty damn weak. oc's are weak as it is.
using OCs in conjunction with player presence is a much more appropriate use.
what we are saying is that oc's are <i>usually</i> icing on the cake.
speaking about all of this makes me want to gorge and set up some oc's early game and see waht happens. starting steam in 5.
edit: meh, 2 games and never got a chance to lay oc's. we needed chambers.
a gorge behind a wall of 2 or 3 ocs will stop a small marine force, especially with a skulk around so they can't chase the gorge without being bitten.
the key is to drop them immediately around corners so that if they shoot the tower a skulk can easily jump over the oc and be immediately within biting distance. while marines are busy shooting ocs skulks can usually sneak up and get a bite in, expecially during reloads. they're limited but far from useless.
i don't think they're in drastic need of a buff but it certainly won't unbalance things too much because unless their price is halved, you won't find too many people dropping them wildly.
Static defenses are only meant as a speed bump and early warning system. I haven't pklayed in a server where 6v6 is the norm in a long time, but in the 15v15 servers, OCs are already overpowered because aliens can afford to drop like 5 of them at the beginning of the game. Unupgraded marines just can't deal with that many OCs. Making them cost 5 res and aliens will be doing lockdowns 1 minute into the game, because they can now drop 3 with their starting res.
I think we should just remove OCs and turrets period.
OCs where changed a <b>long</b> time ago to be more accurate and that was quickly removed (back when mineshaft still existed). Two OCs could take out a squad of marines in a long enough hallway.
15v15 is... not the normal size of a server.
Anyway, yes OCs can be useful if they have player support, but then you might as well go skulk and kill the marine for 0 res instead of 20. They're more expensive than turrets, but not much better.
Make the number of hives in game add more dmg and health to the oc, maby even more firerate or turn speed
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Seconded! Would also prevent it from being overpowered in the early game.
And yes, they do have different fire times cause (probably) the rotation thingy. Also on some versions jumping helped to dodge a bit of the fire. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Not really true, they're quite useful under certain circumstances.
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Please enlighten us with something to the conversation with a full answer and maybe an example as to why you think they are and what circumstances they suit and how it is justified in the game mechanics.
But theyre only really effective with the support of a lerk and some skulks, maybe a gorge.
Otherwise they will only act as a delay untill the team can arrive.