Upgrade Chambers
Lord_Frodo
Join Date: 2002-09-26 Member: 1333Members
Join Date: 2002-09-26 Member: 1333Members
It seems like every single day I see a new post/thread/both that says something to the tune of:
"<chamber name> should never ever be built first. <other chamber name> is infinitely superior and it is impossible to win without it as the first chamber. Anyone who builds <first chamber name> first is an absolute moron who deserves to be banished from civilization and forced to eat wild berries and live in the kingdom of the moles forever."
Interesting. Open your eyes, alien players! There is no "ultimate super uber godlike unbeatable upgrade order." Player A plays better with defense chambers first, great. Player B might like sensory or movement. Get used to ALL types of chambers, and not only will you be useful in MUCH more varied combat situations, but you won't have to go and whine whenever you don't get the only type of chamber you know how to play with first.
Quit limiting yourselves!
Def = Sens = Adren, you just need to make your play style adapt a bit and realize it.
"<chamber name> should never ever be built first. <other chamber name> is infinitely superior and it is impossible to win without it as the first chamber. Anyone who builds <first chamber name> first is an absolute moron who deserves to be banished from civilization and forced to eat wild berries and live in the kingdom of the moles forever."
Interesting. Open your eyes, alien players! There is no "ultimate super uber godlike unbeatable upgrade order." Player A plays better with defense chambers first, great. Player B might like sensory or movement. Get used to ALL types of chambers, and not only will you be useful in MUCH more varied combat situations, but you won't have to go and whine whenever you don't get the only type of chamber you know how to play with first.
Quit limiting yourselves!
Def = Sens = Adren, you just need to make your play style adapt a bit and realize it.
Comments
I think movement and sensory are equal because all they can do is parasite and teleport (for their attack) , but I find defense most important...
Offense chambers die twice as quick if they dont have defense chambers behind them.. same with any chamber or strucutre. So II think defense shoudl always be first, unless you want to rush!
if your whole team decides to rush marines first thign and destroy them quick a movement chamber could be more valuable then defense, but dont be suprised if it fails and your hive dies quickly
I have more fun with the movement and sensory upgrades.
Early-game hunting as a skulk is way more fun (and usually more effective) when you can be completely invisible and waiting in the middle of the hallway as a marine runs towards you. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
People are becoming set in there ways, you need to adapt your playing style.
With sensory first, the game is not lost. In fact, you have a HUGE advantage now. You can cloack, you can now succesfully hide and ambush the backs of marines. Even battle hardned ones, who do look in vents, corners, ceilings. The only problem is, you need to attack together, and be more aggressive. Thats why most games with sensory fail. You allow the marines to get more resources, before you get a second hive.
If movement is first, you all of a sudden, are a blink inthe eye of a skulk. Since you never run out of energy to kill a un upgraded marine, celerity or silence your best choices. Silence defintly helps your ambushes too, and hell, level 3 celerity, even those marines who always seem to get direct hits all the time are going to have some trouble. Your one fast little bugger. Once again, this requires you to be more aggressive.
Now defensive, this is the one that allows you not to be so aggressive. Your buildings live longer, and so do you. Problem is, that it makes most alien palyers, relaxed. Ive noticed this alot. People just sit there. Gorg is building a building, and you have a skulk just hanging from the wall "preotecting" the gorg. Right, sure. You always need to be aggressive, but with defensive, it lulls most people into a false sense of seecurity, like observatory does for marines.
So my personal opinion is that defensive should be second. With the other 2 upgrades, you can really hamper a marine exspansion. As put in other posts, the only really good upgrade for early game skulks is carapace, which in turn really is kinda crap. You will most liklely survive a fire fight, but you won't be able to go into another one without healing. So being faster, quieter, being able to see hurt marines, marines in darkaned corners, and being able to turn compltly invisble, are your best choices, for a aggressive alien team.
If you don't harrass the marines and keep them from expanding far into a map, then your screwed if you poicked anything but defensive. Of course, even then u might be screwed.
Oh well, iam sure il lcontinue to get into games with aliens that are either weinning, or losing very badly, to which people just **obscenity** about the wrong chamber. Right.
I think movement and sensory are equal because all they can do is parasite and teleport (for their attack) , but I find defense most important...
Offense chambers die twice as quick if they dont have defense chambers behind them.. same with any chamber or strucutre. So II think defense shoudl always be first, unless you want to rush!
if your whole team decides to rush marines first thign and destroy them quick a movement chamber could be more valuable then defense, but dont be suprised if it fails and your hive dies quickly<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All I can say is when you want that lerk to umbra the fades.....you want to have adrenaline.
I can't even begin to tell you what a huge difference this makes in the firepower of the alien side.
Sensory should always be last....
Defense
Movement
Sensory
In that order.
/me gets out the cattle prod, and starts herding posts
*bzzt* *bzzt* go on, posts! Get back in <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=21&t=11719' target='_blank'>this thread</a> where you belong!
Ok, seriously guys. Don't start talking about the order of chambers, or the merits about arguing about the order of chambers <i>again</i>. It's already all in that thread.
This consideration alone screws over the sensory first build. Sure, you can get lots of kills with Skulks, but once they get HA they can kill you even if you take them by surprise. Since your Fades suck without move/defense, the HA marines will easily mow through your team.
This leaves you with a choice between movement chamber first and defense chamber first. Defense chambers give you the obvious advantage of nearly invulnerable offense chamber walls, forward healing for damaged Skulks, and the Carapace upgrade which makes Skulks twice as hard to kill. In contrast, Movement chambers do jack diddly squat when you have one hive, and Skulks gain virtually no benefit from movement chamber upgrades.
Thus, defense first is almost always the way to win. This is a fundamental imbalance in the game.
You don't let them get HA. If they do get it, youve done a bad job of keeping them from expanding.
Also, dsecond hive goes up, you have sensory, now defense.
What is stopping your gorg from running his little butto over to the third pronto?
If you were doing your job, and keeping them confined as much as possible, its a good chance that they do not have all 3 hives.
So instead of buidling up defense at the second hive, why not just waddle up to the 3rd and, start it up almost immeditally? Hell, start saving for resources right ater the second starts building. Hives go up fast, then its just a rapid descent for the marines.
Yet, you need a capable team.
Also, there is no order for chambers, and anyone who says this should be first, really are morons.
Wow, well that cinches it because as we all know message board registration dates directly corresponds to skill in a videogame. The only trump card left to play is to say that clan players like sensory first. 'Cause you know, most people in clans aren't idiot humptards whose only qualification to get in a clan is the ability to type some characters in front of their name and get an attitude that they're l337.
I realize that you guys hate to be totally dominated in an arguement to the point where you can't come up with anything to say, but starting a new thread and pretending the other 40 threads don't already exist isn't going to work.
Edit: Sorry if this comes of as nasty, I just finished up a weekend marred by some of the absolute worst Gorge work that can be dodne within the games mechanics and it's got me riled up. Contrary to opinion, there actually is an absolute "best" to arange chambers in each and every area on each map, and there is in fact a "best" order for building chambers. As the game stands now, if played properly the Kharaa are unbeatable with only two hives. Guess which chamber you don't need at all? I'll give you three guesses and the first two can be movement or defense.
I live with, arguably, one of the best ninja skulks out there. Sometimes I swear he picked up blink from some fade or something. He also loves cloaking with a passion, and swears by it as a first chamber.
Whenever he gets his way, he gets his **obscenity** handed to him. It really is that simple.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->With sensory first, the game is not lost. In fact, you have a HUGE advantage now. You can cloack, you can now succesfully hide and ambush the backs of marines. Even battle hardned ones, who do look in vents, corners, ceilings. The only problem is, you need to attack together, and be more aggressive. Thats why most games with sensory fail. You allow the marines to get more resources, before you get a second hive.
If movement is first, you all of a sudden, are a blink inthe eye of a skulk. Since you never run out of energy to kill a un upgraded marine, celerity or silence your best choices. Silence defintly helps your ambushes too, and hell, level 3 celerity, even those marines who always seem to get direct hits all the time are going to have some trouble. Your one fast little bugger. Once again, this requires you to be more aggressive.
Now defensive, this is the one that allows you not to be so aggressive. Your buildings live longer, and so do you. Problem is, that it makes most alien palyers, relaxed. Ive noticed this alot. People just sit there. Gorg is building a building, and you have a skulk just hanging from the wall "preotecting" the gorg. Right, sure. You always need to be aggressive, but with defensive, it lulls most people into a false sense of seecurity, like observatory does for marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Furthermore, if you look at the winning strategies for both sides it all comes down to which side has the more aggressive offense. Cloaking is a completely <i>defensive</i> power, unlike almost all the other upgrades; cloaking doesn't work if you're relentlessly attacking. You must lie in wait, or deliberately slow your attacks to make use of cloaking, which is hardly the recipe for a devestating assault. You can be crafty, or sneaky, or subtle, but you cannot be aggressive. And in my experience, being aggressive is what wins games.
Movement is a very good chamber to have once you get the tier 2 aliens; fades with adrenaline can tear up bases like nobody's business, making it impossible for marines to live a second past their spawn. That's easily worth all the cloaking in the world, since you no longer have living marines to hide from in the first place. Celerity is a nice ability at times, and a clever skulk with silence is often worth 3 with cloaking.
Defense, contrary to what you claim, is <i>not</i> a "relaxed" chamber. If anything, it makes the aliens more aggressive; I've recently learned how nasty a skulk with level 3 carapace is, and take it every chance I get. That insures that when I go on a base rampage, I'll do a <i>lot</i> more damage to my target before biting the bullet. Regeneration allows for near-constant assaults on bases, forcing almost all the marines to deal with <i>you</i> rather than expanding or hunting down your teammates. Redemption gets you back in the game quickly, healing you back up for another attack as a fade or lerk so you don't have to expend the time and resources to respawn and evolve.
Even the chamber abilities by themselves tell the story clearly. DCs heal players and structures, making them last significantly longer. Movement chambers allow teleporting across the map to hives under attack, or cutting down on travel time. Sensory chambers... well, basically do nothing. They parasite any marines dumb enough to touch them, and give your team a vague, nebulous warning that the marines are <i>somewhere</i> close to one of your many sensory chambers.
I would be <b>glad</b> to see the sensory chamber role and upgrades improved to the point where they're actually tempting, but as of right now the case <i>cannot</i> be made that they are a viable alternative to the other 2, clan organization or not. DCs and MCs are unquestionably better than SCs, regardless of your strategy or playing preferences.