A Plea To The Marine In All Of Us
Asal_The_Unforgiving
Join Date: 2003-03-26 Member: 14903Members
Join Date: 2003-03-26 Member: 14903Members
<div class="IPBDescription">It's long past time</div>My friends, I've been playing NS for too long to care anymore, and there's really only one thing that makes me sad when I see it.
When I started, marines had the advantage, it was obvious. The game just wasn't as well balanced as it could have been, but then, each side had a way to fight back, and it could be both epic and bloody at the same time. But at the same time, when people screwed up, things went downhill. The funny part was, when people screwed up, it wasn't the ones you'd expect. It wasn't the comm, or the gorge, or even the one dropping the hive.
It was the marines. The ones who were supposed to be following orders, but ran off. When I started playing, listening to the comm was paramount, but that's gone now. And because of it, a lot of what made NS what it was is gone. You were forced to work together, to die together, and to scream bloody murder with your gun blazing, surrounded by friends every time you attacked a hive. But that's not there anymore. Now it's all about who is better, who is ahead, and that's not how it should be.
My friends, there is a plague on NS, and I'd like to call all those who see themselves as true marines just to play a few games listening to exactly what the comm says. If he says 'someone' assume it means you, and respond with a 'yes sir' or 'sure thing' or some way to let the comm know you've got it covered. And try your hardest, through death or infestation, to get it done. It doesn't matter if it's a suicide mission, you can spawn back in. Try, for the comms, and for the marines.
Rise, my brothers, and remember that the team isn't you, and it isn't the comm. It's all the marines together, and if you stand strong and listen to the one who can see the whole picture (and make no mistake, he can), you will win. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/marine.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::marine::" border="0" alt="marine.gif" />
To the everlasting glory of the infantry! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" />
When I started, marines had the advantage, it was obvious. The game just wasn't as well balanced as it could have been, but then, each side had a way to fight back, and it could be both epic and bloody at the same time. But at the same time, when people screwed up, things went downhill. The funny part was, when people screwed up, it wasn't the ones you'd expect. It wasn't the comm, or the gorge, or even the one dropping the hive.
It was the marines. The ones who were supposed to be following orders, but ran off. When I started playing, listening to the comm was paramount, but that's gone now. And because of it, a lot of what made NS what it was is gone. You were forced to work together, to die together, and to scream bloody murder with your gun blazing, surrounded by friends every time you attacked a hive. But that's not there anymore. Now it's all about who is better, who is ahead, and that's not how it should be.
My friends, there is a plague on NS, and I'd like to call all those who see themselves as true marines just to play a few games listening to exactly what the comm says. If he says 'someone' assume it means you, and respond with a 'yes sir' or 'sure thing' or some way to let the comm know you've got it covered. And try your hardest, through death or infestation, to get it done. It doesn't matter if it's a suicide mission, you can spawn back in. Try, for the comms, and for the marines.
Rise, my brothers, and remember that the team isn't you, and it isn't the comm. It's all the marines together, and if you stand strong and listen to the one who can see the whole picture (and make no mistake, he can), you will win. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/marine.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::marine::" border="0" alt="marine.gif" />
To the everlasting glory of the infantry! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" />
Comments
hmm.. the last sounded a bit like communist, perhaps u should use comrade after all <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
My friends, I've been playing NS for too long to care anymore, and there's really only one thing that makes me sad when I see it.
When I started, marines had the advantage, it was obvious. The game just wasn't as well balanced as it could have been, but then, each side had a way to fight back, and it could be both epic and bloody at the same time. But at the same time, when people screwed up, things went downhill. The funny part was, when people screwed up, it wasn't the ones you'd expect. It wasn't the comm, or the gorge, or even the one dropping the hive.
It was the marines. The ones who were supposed to be following orders, but ran off. When I started playing, listening to the comm was paramount, but that's gone now. And because of it, a lot of what made NS what it was is gone. You were forced to work together, to die together, and to scream bloody murder with your gun blazing, surrounded by friends every time you attacked a hive. But that's not there anymore. Now it's all about who is better, who is ahead, and that's not how it should be.
My friends, there is a plague on NS, and I'd like to call all those who see themselves as true marines just to play a few games listening to exactly what the comm says. If he says 'someone' assume it means you, and respond with a 'yes sir' or 'sure thing' or some way to let the comm know you've got it covered. And try your hardest, through death or infestation, to get it done. It doesn't matter if it's a suicide mission, you can spawn back in. Try, for the comms, and for the marines.
Rise, my brothers, and remember that the team isn't you, and it isn't the comm. It's all the marines together, and if you stand strong and listen to the one who can see the whole picture (and make no mistake, he can), you will win. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/marine.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::marine::" border="0" alt="marine.gif" />
To the everlasting glory of the infantry! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" />
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The average commander is about as talented as the russian leadership after stalins purges, thank you but id rather desert than run towards an obvious death that wont accomplish anything.
The average commander is about as talented as the russian leadership after stalins purges, thank you but id rather desert than run towards an obvious death that wont accomplish anything.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Maybe it won't, maybe it will. You don't know the plan. Remember, you <i>do</i> respawn. Is it so bad to send one marine out to die, if it distracts the aliens from an attempt to get a phase gate outside a hive? And if you refuse that order, the others trying to get the phase die?
Sounds selfish to me.
And I don't really care if it sounds a bit communist, that's a system that only works on paper, but following orders works in practice. It is the single most important thing to the marine team. I don't even know why I'm posting again, this is only a plea. Take it as you will, all I'm asking is that a few more people try a little bit more. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
newbies wont follow orders because they dont understand them. "weld the pg at lessthanthree spot and mine it then go sg overlook rt then run under cargo to get a pg". ns slang isnt that easy to pick up, and even if you understood that sentence you wouldnt be able to execute it if you cant aim
finally we have the players that understand whatever the comm wants to get done and know how to get it done. most of the time though these people know the game better than your stock pub commander and therefore wont follow his orders
There always exists some marines who wont follow the order.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then ban them. It's very simple, you ban players who are not condusive to good games. If this means immaturity, arrogant clanners, failure to play as a team, whatever. It's not south america's fault if mexico fails to control the influx of immigration. It's mexico's.
We don't have very many admins anymore who care about strategy or good games. They just want to run around and shoot things. They ought to be playing counterstrike.
Then ban them. It's very simple, you ban players who are not condusive to good games. If this means immaturity, arrogant clanners, failure to play as a team, whatever. It's not south america's fault if mexico fails to control the influx of immigration. It's mexico's.
We don't have very many admins anymore who care about strategy or good games. They just want to run around and shoot things. They ought to be playing counterstrike.
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there are people who are recapping rts for u when u r sieging without u telling them to do so.. they dun necessarily be pro but they know u r in trouble sieging when u have only 2 rts left. u will be glad that there is one and only one of them who dun listen to comms order but doing good for the team
tell me on what server u r an admin and i will ban the server instead <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> QFT
Then ban them. It's very simple, you ban players who are not condusive to good games. If this means immaturity, arrogant clanners, failure to play as a team, whatever. It's not south america's fault if mexico fails to control the influx of immigration. It's mexico's.
We don't have very many admins anymore who care about strategy or good games. They just want to run around and shoot things. They ought to be playing counterstrike.
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banning players based on subjective arguments is pretty infantile
if you want strategy and tactics blended in your ns experience then join a clan (a good clan)
...theres no way to stop the tendency of decreasing player quality imho...
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Ok, no. That's BS. There's no way to eliminate that kind of depreciation, but that doesn't mean you can't appreciate too and balance or even improve.
Yes the game is older than it was and so you have a lot of skilled players and a percentage of them will always be SoB's.
However, a good admin presence and a server environment where realism and immersion are encouraged can really bring it in.
I do this when ever I run my listen server. The problem is that it's hard to find those players and it's hard to find good servers with an admin presence. I mean I can turn on my server right now, Asal, and give you a great "old school" NS experience... But with what people? I can't get enough of you good people on. When I was testing 3.2 today I had at max 7 ppl on the server. And that only happened when I had at least 3. People search through the Steam lists for a something fun and avoid empty servers that might actually be great.
And then the majority of your NS servers have poor admin presence. And some of those admins are ###### who aren't about giving their clients a good NS experience like they should.
To be honest the server and admins (which includes myself) are more are fault than the developers in my opinion. And we don't have enough of you all joining good servers. It's always one of the jam packed combat servers that people rush to it seems...
I'm with you Asal but you got to support good servers out there with playing in them.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->PM me the name and IP of your server, I'll play there. I'll do what I can to help, and try to bring the people I know as well. Maybe we can get a good following going. I'd rather you not post it here because this isn't for advertisement, of course.
But there is some point to that. I just hope that with all the objections and arguing here, people realize that all I'm asking is for people to try listening to orders and being nice to the comm for once. At least a 'nt' or a 'nice try' if the comm loses, at the end? We're dealing with people, after all. It's not like they're trying to lose. They do their best, same as you. Let them know you appreciate it? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tsa.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::tsa::" border="0" alt="tsa.gif" />
* as a comm, be a good rine first.
* follow orders ALWAYS. If you follow orders and lose its the comms fault. If you do not follow orders it could be yours.
* noone will follow your orders as a comm if you never followed theres.
I said it in my Commander Guide in larger terms:
* as a comm, be a good rine first.
* follow orders ALWAYS. If you follow orders and lose its the comms fault. If you do not follow orders it could be yours.
* noone will follow your orders as a comm if you never followed theres.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Some of us can't comm effectively no matter what, but that's a good point. You can't help the team if you don't follow orders well, and you may very well be the reason your team loses.
* noone will follow your orders as a comm if you never followed theres.
Thoughed it was clear.. yes you should.
Aslong as the comm is in the chair and not voted out, he gives the orders. You can't possibly know what a comm is thinking. Besides you are never gona convince a new comm his way was 'bad' if he does not lose and see for himself.
We all make mistakes, we all have to learn. And you can be sure that if I am comming and ppl don't follow orders they better either eject or start listening cause else some are gona be very left out.
Are you suggesting I should follow orders I know to be wrong, especially when I know the correct move, can execute it and save the game from certain disaster?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Actually? Yes. I would. If you don't like the order, suggest what you think would be better, but do as you're told unless the comm changes his mind in lue of your suggestion. How else is someone supposed to learn? He's just going to be annoyed at you if you don't listen to orders, and then he certainly won't.
Actually I'm wrong. They aren't completely useless. They load up on ammo to 250/30 and leave that lying around the map for the pro players to pick up. Free ammo drops.
I prefer we all listen, they learn, and have some pro matches like we used to in the old days.
When I pubbed, I would follow orders only if I knew that they could not be achieved without my intervention. Veteran players are pretty much 5 steps ahead of your average pub comm, in a different league of thought almost.
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This attitude is a big problem on pub servers. Often times the players with the most skill are the ones who listen the least. The problem with that? If you have the most skill, you are probably the best person to have at whatever WP is being given.
Noobs don't listen because they don't understand the order or the value of the following orders. Pros don't because they think they are too good. So, practically no one follows orders. What's the point of having a comm or even attempting organized teamwork when the "best" players don't encourage it?
What helps...
1st, Don't com first game, or always go com, or say : sorry I only com. You have to prove yourself on the field first to gain respect from good players
2nd Have a microphone, act cool, be friendly and smart
3rd You need to be fast, a too slow com that doesn't use keyboard can lose respect pretty fast around good players
I for myself don't always follow all orders...but I don't act stupid. or at least distract the enemy...going all the other way then where your com wants to develop can be a great thing. When I'm com, I'm happy when I got smart players that don't need for me to command them and just ask stuff like bullets pg's, what ever.
And yes, not all coms are smart too...yeah maybe i'm an ######, but I won't always do what they want. I won't build a 5th siege turrret, no sorry...stuff like that lol
But I understand how you feel about it all, how players don't always listen, yeah I guess it's annoying, but
it's pubs. I don't ask for more, I just do my best to make the team win, that's all.
Yes you can, most pubbers are as predictable as the clock.
I have played pub matches where we won because the comm was new. He made such odd desitions the aliens did not know how to counter and we used that. (the rines in the field where far from new)
I can emphasize with both sides here, since I do comm occasionally. I don't follow all orders the commander gives, because I know they're futile or something else more important needs to be done, and nobody else is doing it. If the commander is throwing unequipped marines continually against the second hive and not even close to setting up sieges/breaking through, you bet I'll recap the lost nodes and get a PG in the 3rd hive before we lose that too. I think this is the best solution - follow orders that are reasonable. If you are the commander and your team finds your orders unreasonable, you should convince them that they are sound.
A good comm with a mic will get things cracking for sure.
It's more fun to rush the hive over and over anyways. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/lerk.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::lerk::" border="0" alt="lerk.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1613858:date=Mar 12 2007, 05:12 PM:name=KainTSA)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KainTSA @ Mar 12 2007, 05:12 PM) [snapback]1613858[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
This attitude is a big problem on pub servers. Often times the players with the most skill are the ones who listen the least. The problem with that? If you have the most skill, you are probably the best person to have at whatever WP is being given.
Noobs don't listen because they don't understand the order or the value of the following orders. Pros don't because they think they are too good. So, practically no one follows orders. What's the point of having a comm or even attempting organized teamwork when the "best" players don't encourage it?
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I like to think that the other 10 marines will go to that wp and get it done, while I go off and do something else. You always gotta be doing 2 things at once on marines if you want to win.
I miss the 1.0x days when you could give a marine to waypoint to guard himself. It made the sprite appear infront of them usually taking up the vast portion of the vision, it would also be hell on their frames per second making things all laggy.
A good comm with a mic will get things cracking for sure.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I suppose that's my only hope, from reading what's on these boards. Of all the responses here, we've got what...two people who support listening to the comm?
Does <i>anyone</i> else find this not only sad, but distressing? This makes me want to cry.
I dislike how elitist players think they should go spawn camp the aliens (and ruin the game) instead of listening to the commander (and maybe have a good game?).
Personally, I allways listen.
I dislike how elitist players think they should go spawn camp the aliens (and ruin the game) instead of listening to the commander (and maybe have a good game?).
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God forbid good players using a legitimate game tactic to efficiently bring victory to their team.
and now heres just something to break the argument down for all of you:
good clanners will take in and process more information about the game than the rest of the team combined. the level of situational awareness and long-sightedness amongst these players is just something so much above your average pubber that it is, understandably, difficult to comprehend. this isnt because theyre smarter than anyone else, but because theyve played this game ishloads more and on a higher level of competition. pub rounds are so godawfully predictable that i dont understand why anyone would be satisfied with just them