Buying a new PC, need advice

puzl · March 2007

<a href="http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pp4COtOL1Zl7M21kddWavDw" target="_blank">http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pp4...1Zl7M21kddWavDw</a>

Here's a list of what I'm looking to buy. I don't need a monitor, keyboard, mouse or OS, so I can get it all for €1500, which is nice. My main reason for upgrading is CPU power. I rarely play anything other than NS and wow, and my current system handles both of them reasonably well. Sure, I'd like to boost the settings on both games, but not so much that I want to spend €1500 for it. I sure could use the extra processing power to better profile NS performance among many other applications that my Athlon XP 2800 is struggling to handle.

Some specific questions:
<blockquote><ul><li>I really want that Antec Sonata 2 case. Silence is important to me, and this case has some very nifty design features. However, it comes with a 450W PSU, which I doubt will be powerful enough for the system, or will it?</li><li>The 7950GT is getting good reviews, I'm going to look around for a passively cooled variant of this card, so if you know of an off-the-shelf card that performs well without sounding like a wind tunnel, I'd like to hear about it. I'm happy to wait to buy a DX10 card in 18 months time.</li><li>Yes, the raptor disk is essential. No, I don't want to double the MTBF by putting two slower drives in raid 0. I don't care about disk space, I have 800GB of off-system storage.</li><li>I want to get a good multi-card reader that will fit into one of the front drive bay slots. Recommendations welcome.</li><li>Is 2GB enough? I will be running games at 1280, as that is the maximum res my monitor supports.</li></ul></blockquote>

Femme_Fatale · March 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Puzl)</div><div class='quotemain'> i really want that Antec Sonata 2 case. Silence is important to me, and this case has some very nifty design features. However, it comes with a 450W PSU, which I doubt will be powerful enough for the system, or will it?</div>

yes, its very quiet, and its simple and pretty.
we handle these at work.
fairly robust, and easy to assemble.
airflow is good too.
only thing i noticed is the door might go *crackle* at the hinges..
that and the windtunnel you get with it, is a (insert random swearword here) thing, if you want to quickly mod something inside it, or remove something.
it completely blocks off most things, so you have to take it off.
but all in all, thats the case i am going to buy when i get around to upping my cpu powered minion.

okay, we delivered that case with builtin CPU to an engineeringfirm, working with PS CS,auto CAD the works.
with a dualcore proc and a fairly nifty graphix card.

does this answer your question about being powerful enough?
you dont need a 600W unless youre gonna get a beast of a gpx card... -.-;

o, if you want to run Vista. do 2GB mem,
no matter what.

Lt_Patch · March 2007

If you can find one, there are floppy drives, which comes with a built in card reader. Plugs into both the floppy, and an onboard USB2 header port.
RAM-wise, 2GB is barely touched, unless you're running everything at maximum settings at about 1600x1200. I have 2GB RAM, running everything at 1280x1024, and the only thing that comes close is Supreme Commander. Which bumps the usage up to 75% of the RAM in total.
Still 2GB is nice for extra overhead you get.
PSU-wise, anything from a major, and trusted, PSU firm, with aPFC at anything over ~85% will serve you nicely. Make sure that it gives both the wattage clearance (about 100w headroom is ideal for a gaming rig), and the current along the main rails.

puzl · March 2007

Thanks for the advice. According to <a href="http://extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine" target="_blank">http://extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine</a> 450W PSU looks like it will be enough. I think I'll order the sonata ii and build the system around the supplied PSU. If it doesn't cut the mustard, I'll buy a higher power output silent PSU and replace the one in the sonata.

I'm definitely going for 2GB of ram. I have 1.5GB in my current system.

TychoCelchuuu · March 2007

I have a Sonata Mk. I. Very good case. The rest of your build looks pretty good too, although if you want to stick a $5 junk 3d card in there and save the money for a DirectX10 card down the road, you'd be set for much longer without having to upgrade.

puzl · March 2007

That's probably the final outstanding major decision for me to make. I originally had a 7600GS in there, but for an extra €80 I can get a 7850GT and I don't think I'll need to upgrade for 18 months with that card. I'll have another look around for a cheaper card option over the weekend. Remember, in terms of gaming, I probably won't play much more than NS and wow. I won't be installing vista on it, so I won't have access to directx 10 anyway. I don't expect to install vista until it makes sense to do so, which will probably be in 18 months time.

TheGuy · March 2007

I'm not sure where'd you actually shop for one since you're overseas. But Aerocool came out with a nice panel that is 25 in 1 that supports removable hard drives. It retails for 50$ US.

<img src="http://www.aerocool.us/Images/peripheral/infinite/25-in-1.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

Or there's the cheaper one that I found at <a href="http://www.xoxide.com" target="_blank">XOXIDE.COM</a> But it's product page is at <a href="http://www.sunbeamtech.com/index-2.html" target="_blank">SunBeam Tech's Website</a>

And here's Xoxide's Panels page if you want to get an idea of models/features to find elsewhere.

<a href="http://www.xoxide.com/front-multifunction-panels.html" target="_blank">XOXIDE Panels</a>

douchebagatron · March 2007

if you wait a little while for some dx10 cards to come out, which would expect to happen soon, then all the dx9 cards will most like drop in price a whole lot.

Warrior · March 2007

Get a different PSU. 99% of the PSU that come with the case suck. It doesn't list the features of the PSU, the efficiency ratings, how much volts, and amps it puts out on the various rails. So you have no clue what you are getting. When you plan to get a different video card, no doubt it will need 1 or 2 PCIE connectors that provide the amps it needs. You also want a PSU that doesnt droop when a load in applied. I hope you plan to overclock also. You are getting the mobo and the CPU to do it.

I found this.
<a href="http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=327671&view=detailed" target="_blank">http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=327671&view=detailed</a>

Not sure about that particular model because of the lack of detailed information but corsair does make awesome PSUs. It is quite pricey however.

So ya thats my advice.

Tykjen · March 2007

I would also wait until PCI-Express V2.0 arrives sometime this summer. Said to be the default for years to come.

puzl · March 2007

I've been through this before, there's always a reason to wait. I can get a dual core system cheaply now, and that is what I was waiting for 6 months ago. I think I'm just going to buy, but maybe I might wait another month or two.

Warrior · March 2007

Dont wait for tech to show up. You will always be waiting then. Buy now, enjoy it now and upgrade later if its important.

Zydeco · March 2007

Waiting is never good if it not about 2-3 months, there's (sadly tbh) always something new around the corner in 6 months time. It's just no use. Remember when people said socket 939 for AMD would last for years? No, DDR2 came on the schedule after that and they made AM2, which lasted 9 months before they started working on a new socket.

It's sad tbh, it's lousy for the consumer while they cash on money on the "i need the latest and *greatest*" and "im waiting for this new *important* update to come" people

I would recommend a case from Arctic Cooling, they make awesome super silent AND very good performing stuff, their coolers are alot better than anything zalman can come up with that isnt passive.

<a href="http://www.arctic-cooling.com/pc_case2.php?idx=121" target="_blank">http://www.arctic-cooling.com/pc_case2.php?idx=121</a>

Their screwless design (drivebays are suspended by plastic bridges) are brilliant imo. Plus good powersupply (mine is a T1 and has a antec PSU), good fans and really cheap.

Cereal_KillR · March 2007

If you're looking for silence, cases like the Antec P180 are interesting, though they will cost a bit more.

An often neglected component for silent PC's is the power supply. Many people decide to change case fans and the CPU fan, and eventually add in a silent cooling solution for their graphic card, but a PSU fan can't really be changed (normal people won't try to open a PSU, it's dangerous) so you'll need one that's quiet from the start. Seasonic S12's and M12's are silent, efficient, and stable. Might cost more at purchase, but your ears will thank you, and the electricity bill will end up lower.

If you can grab SATA optical drives at the same price as IDE drives, go for them. The cables are much better to manipulate, which is important if you want a clean case (and a silent PC requires a clean case for good airflow). Otherwise, get round IDE cables because they're still better than the flat ones.

I'd give links to articles I have read on these items, but they're in French.

Tykjen · March 2007

O well, theres always something to wait for I guess. But, when it comes to getting the fully of gfx for the next couple of years with dx10, Id wait for pcie v2. Which Im going to, when I upgrade from this agp based comp Im currently on.

[WHO]Them · March 2007

Did someone say <a href="http://inventgeek.com/Projects/IonCooler/Overview.aspx" target="_blank">quiet</a>?

Femme_Fatale · March 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Warrior @ Mar 23 2007, 08:49 PM) [snapback]1616519[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
Get a different PSU. 99% of the PSU that come with the case suck. It doesn't list the features of the PSU, the efficiency ratings, how much volts, and amps it puts out on the various rails. So you have no clue what you are getting. When you plan to get a different video card, no doubt it will need 1 or 2 PCIE connectors that provide the amps it needs. You also want a PSU that doesnt droop when a load in applied. I hope you plan to overclock also. You are getting the mobo and the CPU to do it.

I found this.
<a href="http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=327671&view=detailed" target="_blank">http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=327671&view=detailed</a>

Not sure about that particular model because of the lack of detailed information but corsair does make awesome PSUs. It is quite pricey however.

So ya thats my advice.
</div>

not true.

they recently tested that "highend" PSU's are just as "crap" as cheaper ones.

i had a 20eur PSU for 2 years before it blew.
i found it in a grabcrate on a PC fare.

out of the 30 odd cases we delivered to this customer ,1 PSU blew upon boottest.

thats not 99%

Depot · March 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(T_h_e_m @ Mar 24 2007, 04:13 AM) [snapback]1616599[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
Did someone say <a href="http://inventgeek.com/Projects/IonCooler/Overview.aspx" target="_blank">quiet</a>?
</div>
That was one helluva project. I wish I could build something like that.

Cereal_KillR · March 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Femme_Fatale @ Mar 24 2007, 11:18 AM) [snapback]1616602[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
not true.

they recently tested that "highend" PSU's are just as "crap" as cheaper ones.

i had a 20eur PSU for 2 years before it blew.
i found it in a grabcrate on a PC fare.

out of the 30 odd cases we delivered to this customer ,1 PSU blew upon boottest.

thats not 99%
</div>

Who are "they" and are there any links to prove this? Because I can find a good number of websites that do say that high-end PSU's are better...

Hellbilly · March 2007

DONT BUY THE SONATA II!!

It is not quiet AT ALL. I bought this case over a year ago and returned 2 days later, it was utter RUBBISH.

The only quiet part of it is the PSU and the included FANS. The case itself is as quiet as any thin sheet aluminum case out there and you can buy better quiet fans and PSU's anywhere.

Dont be fooled.

However, if you want quiet, go for the Antec P180 case. It has actual sound proofing in the panels. I got me a 650W Antec Truepower Trio powersupply. Of course i have the Zalman 7000 flower on my CPU and Zalman vf-700 on my GPU.

With that setup, i almost cant hear my PC. Even with three 120mm case fans.

AnarkiThreeXSix · March 2007

Hehe, glad to hear comments about the P180, I just ordered it off newegg a day ago since I am also going to be building a new rig in the coming months. It has a $50 dollar rebate on the case too, so thats pretty damn good.

The only thing I would wait for (and am waiting for) is DX10 vid cards...

Blah: The silver one versions rebate offer expired yesterday, but now they made the black P180 with a $50 rebate. Would have made more sense of them to offer rebates on both colors at the same time... but eh, silver/black one looks a bit better, less plain than pure black case.

While this topic is going.. about what watt PSU would one need to properly power an average box, say just, 1 HDD, 1 Optical Drive, sound and vid card and all the rest..
I hear alot would depend on the vid card?

puzl · March 2007

I was thinking along those same lines myself hellbilly and now I've switched to a P180 based solution. I just completed the order, a little over budget due to the SeaSonic PSU and P180.

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600
Asus P5B Delux
MSI GeForce 7950GT 512MB GDDR3, Silent, PCI-Express, 2xDVI-I/ViVo, HDCP-ready
Western Digital Raptor 150GB SATA 16MB 10000RPM
NEC DVD±recorder AD-7173 IDE Black OEM Duallayer,LabelFlash,Multirecorder(Ram)
Antec Performance One P180 Miditower, Black, Aluminum (Without PSU)
Seasonic S12 Powersupply 600W, 120mm Fan, 6xSATA, ATX/EPS, 2xPCI-E, 20/24pin
Zalman CNPS7700-AICu CPU-Cooler
Corsair Dominator TWIN2X6400C4D 2048MB, DDR2,2x1GB(KIT),DHX,E.P.P, CL4-4-4-12T
<b> Order Total 1.653,63</b>

Hellbilly · March 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnarkiThreeXSix @ Mar 24 2007, 02:39 PM) [snapback]1616616[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
Hehe, glad to hear comments about the P180, I just ordered it off newegg a day ago since I am also going to be building a new rig in the coming months. It has a $50 dollar rebate on the case too, so thats pretty damn good.

The only thing I would wait for (and am waiting for) is DX10 vid cards...

Blah: The silver one versions rebate offer expired yesterday, but now they made the black P180 with a $50 rebate. Would have made more sense of them to offer rebates on both colors at the same time... but eh, silver/black one looks a bit better, less plain than pure black case.

While this topic is going.. about what watt PSU would one need to properly power an average box, say just, 1 HDD, 1 Optical Drive, sound and vid card and all the rest..
I hear alot would depend on the vid card?
</div>

The P180 is a very solid case and i've been happy with mine the past months or two. Only case i found that was good and solid enough to replace my 5 year old Chieftec steel brick. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

As for wattage, it depends on the GFX card of course, but unless you go with super duper high end card, you ll actually be fine with around 400w. But looking towards the future, i'd say get something between 500-600W.

AnarkiThreeXSix · March 2007

Sounds good, I was planning to go with a 500w since its a nice number, I'll definetly be getting a card that won't suck ###### and not a budget card, but we shall see about that in due time...

Whats all this PCI-Express V2.0 stuff, I googled that a bit and it only seems to be speed improvement? But if that's going to come around in summer, then it makes worth waiting for since dx10 cards will bee around then too?

Zydeco · March 2007

Last i read most cards, even today, doesnt use all the bandwith PCI-Express can give, it's just a improvement that probably never will be used or give any real benefits. And it will be surpassed by the next version 3.0 that will repeat previous history by improving something that doesnt need improvement.

AnarkiThreeXSix · March 2007

Thought i'd post this in here, instead of making a new thread..

I'm in the process of making a new rig, actually near the point of purchasing these parts in the next hour or two.. If anyone can look through my list just to see if theres any problems that might arise here and there then it'd be nice to let me know <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />

I checked and double checked most of the stuff, and so far it seems to be all good.

Long paste aheaaaaad!

AnarkiBox 2007

Case:
Antec Performance One P180 Silver cold rolled steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
<a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129154" target="_blank">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16811129154</a>

Price $129.99 + $18.99 - $50 Rebate

NOTE: Already Bought

---------------------

Mobo:
GIGABYTE GA-M61P-S3 Socket AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 6100 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
<a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128034" target="_blank">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16813128034</a>

Price $75.99 + $6.13

---------------------

PSU:
Antec SmartPower 2.0 SP-500 ATX12V 500W Power Supply 115/230 V TUV, UL, CUL, CE, CB, FCC - Retail
<a href="http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16817103937" target="_blank">http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?...N82E16817103937</a>

Price $69.99 + $6.34 - $30 Rebate

---------------------

CPU:
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ Windsor 2.2GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 Processor - Retail
<a href="http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16819103747" target="_blank">http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?...N82E16819103747</a>

Price $105.00

---------------------

Memory:
G.SKILL 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Standard System Memory - Retail
<a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231099" target="_blank">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820231099</a>

Price $79.99 + $4.99

---------------------

HDD:
Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 ST3120814A 120GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache IDE Ultra ATA100 Hard Drive - OEM
<a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148104" target="_blank">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16822148104</a>

Price X

NOTE: Current HDD in box I am using now, but it shall get taken out.

---------------------

Optical Drive:
LITE-ON Black
16X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 16X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X
DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 24X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2M Cache IDE DVD Burner - OEM
<a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106014" target="_blank">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16827106014</a>

NOTE: Already bought, using in current box, also will be taken out.

---------------------

Vid Card, mobo has onboard video that will be used for a while,
until I get cheap pci vid or dx10 comes out :x

Sound Card
Modem Card
Hi Speed USB Card

^ Also to be salvaged from current computer ^

Prices for items to be still bought...
Max to be able to spend $400-500.

$75.99 + $6.13
$69.99 + $6.34 - $30 Rebate
$79.99 + $4.99
$105.00

= $318.43

Warrior · March 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnarkiThreeXSix @ Mar 24 2007, 09:08 AM) [snapback]1616623[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
Sounds good, I was planning to go with a 500w since its a nice number, I'll definetly be getting a card that won't suck ###### and not a budget card, but we shall see about that in due time...

Whats all this PCI-Express V2.0 stuff, I googled that a bit and it only seems to be speed improvement? But if that's going to come around in summer, then it makes worth waiting for since dx10 cards will bee around then too?
</div>

The important improvement from 2.0 is the increase in voltage provided by the bus. This will help users who don't have the PSU with dedicated PCIE rails be able to use higher end video cards. While the current bandwidth is hardly used, tomorrow games will demand more bandwidth and technology is always 2 steps ahead of software.

BlackMage · March 2007

anarki: don't see any problems except for my fanboyish brand loyalty (asus, corsair, WD and LG for mobo, ram, hdd, optical)

AnarkiThreeXSix · March 2007

I was going to go for an Asus mobo and Corsair mem, but the mobo I picked out suits me best than most asus' I have found. Corsair too, but the mem I got seems pretty good. And the prices do it for me <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

I'm a Seagate fanboy for hdds, and this liteon burner ive got is pretty good.

I got the Antec P180 case early, and damn is it nice.

Pretty confident in those parts, so they have been ordered and I should be getting new computer built around the end of this week. \o/

Buying a new PC, need advice

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