It looks pretty neat, but a little bit too open and empty for me. Maybe scale it down some? Or at more details along the floor/walls. Like evoL:ving:eviL said, it's a bit too flat.
Maybe make the floor into a few different levels, add gratings, cables, girders and so on.
It just looks.. empty.
And yeah, the door could be a bit bigger, with some acompanying structure, not just a hole in the wall with a door in it you know? Maybe some bulky stuff around it.
Ah well.. Keep on it. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Good pink or bad pink? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
By the way, the ceiling glass has some detail to it. It's not totally transparent. You just can't tell very well from that one screenshot because of the nebula.
<a href='http://warpzone.cust.nearlyfreespeech.net/halflife/graphics/ns_wz4.png' target='_blank'>Here's a better perspective on the skylight.</a> See the frosted white fringes?
Added a story to the first post of this thread, so you can see why I have the crazy ceilings and such. ^_^
<b>EDIT: Disregard this post; see below. </b> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Forget it. Project cancelled. The reason? There is no cost-effective way to make glass that skulks can walk on and the commander can build through.
If the makers of NS would make it so that skulks can walk on clip brushes <i>or</i> add rendering properites such as "additive" to the func_seethrough entity, then my map would be doable.
The way things are right now, I have discovered that the only way to make glass that can be built through AND clung to as skulks is to make func_illusionaries for the appearence of additive glass, and then put func_seethroughs with the opacity values 0 and 1 (0 and 0 make thems appear as if the number was 255 for some stupid reason.)
Unfortuately, in the area I had designed, doing glass this way drove my r_speeds up from ~520 (when I was using clip brushes before I tested the map as aliens) to ~720 in the marine spawn, (which is unacceptable.)
I urge the NS team to add render mode controls to func_seethrough. In the meantime, I am defeated. A map with fancy glass ceilings is totally undoable. I might try to do another map for NS, if I can think of a good idea for one. In the meantime, this one's dead.
KungFuSquirrelBasher of MuttonsJoin Date: 2002-01-26Member: 103Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
You know, all the skylights in ns_eclipse are func_seethroughs...
For glass, you should use texture render mode. func_seethrough alphas work using this mode. Set the commander alpha to 0 and the player alpha to 80-100 or so. Voila. Windows the skulks can walk on and the commander can build through.
Glass ceilings have been and continue to be entirely doable. I suggest next time you not give up so quickly.
You mean they turn into glass by default? I never thought of trying that... crap... well, having more options for the rendermode would still be nice, but dang. This is the kind of thing that would never occur to me unless someone told me about it or I read it in an FAQ. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Thanks, Squirrel. I'll see if this helps or not... I sure hope this works. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Maybe it's just me, but the high command column seems out of place. The marines appear to have very limited line-of-sight to the top of the column if they're almost anywhere on the bottom level.
Would lowering that column a bit make any huge difference (style-wise, I mean)?
Maybe have it level with the platform on the far wall.
I've lowered it a bit. Not all the way to the floor, but a bit. Should be more manageable now, and I'm going to add ladders on the sides for quick marine access to kill off that pesky skulk chewing on the CC. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
warp zone your doing great mate... i like the look of it... not so generic... fresh you know?
i like the pink and the frosted edges work well on the cieling glass... and very good job on the columns that go up very stylish looks like a lot of poly's(poly's the right word?)
Updated the pic again at the begining of this thread. As you can see, the CC is closer to the ground now.
For some reason, I'm still seeing r_speeds above 700. The ceiling seems to be the culprit. Mainly only when you are in one specific spot, (the marine spawn resource node,) looking out at the CC in one specific direction.
I would hate to have to re-do the marine spawn entirely, but I'm not sure what else I can do to solve this. It's tempting to say "Well, since r_speeds up to 1000 are allowed in commander view, then I should be able to get away with that here, especially since the r_speeds of this room are much lower when the ceiling doesn't get rendered." but that's a cop-out.
We'll see what I can do about this. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
The map is awsome WarpZone, I think it's a new creative idea for a map. The interesting architecture and the windows that you can see through really give it a neat sci-fi 'omg im in a tight **obscenity** space station!' feel. I am definately looking forward to more development screenshots and it's eventual release.
WOW damn seckseh, can you give us an overview of the spawn, maybe you can make it a bit smaller to save r_speeds =/. About nsish thing, try placing ns floor textures and voila =D. I really like this, damn, if you cancel this i kill you....
As you can see, I gave in and completely re-did the spawn room. Ta-da! Check out those r_speeds! I had to sacrifice some detail in the ceiling, and the room is smaller, (which may actually be a good thing for most marines' defense tactics) but I finally got the r_speeds managable, and I also started using jpegs instead of pngs when I realized they actually compressed better for images of this type. So that means now you get thumbnails! Yay!
<b>Project is not cancelled at this time.</b> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
This is probably the last time I'll mess with the marine spawn until after playtesting. No, I refuse to even add detail until then. Stay tuned for screenshots of...
I think the idea is great so keep up the work. However I just realised what has been bugging me about that ceiling. The support arches just stopwhen you get to the glass, I think it would look a whole lot better if you can add some support structure thats on the other side of the glass.
Yeah, I see what you mean. I'll fix that after I finish the basic layout, if I have the spare polys to spend on it. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Added pic of the tube connecting the marine spawn to the rest of them map. Long narrow hallway = liability to aliens... but only until the glass breaks. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
good call battousai, a walkway would also keep the room from being too simple after the glass is broken. btw, when it does break, does it go all at once or in sections? in sections may be better, but could complicate things too much. also, what is the purpose of the glass hallway room? sure, it's very sexy and purple, but why? and how why would someone want a glass tube running through it?
Remember, this is a Museum of Cosmology. It's a tourist attraction. Why would anyone want a room with a glass pipe running through it? It's a <i>display.</i> "See how the machines work" and all that. I don't know if any of you have ever been to St. Louis, but they have this place called the St. Louis Science Center with all kinds of crazy crap like that. I will probably add some more detail to the tech in the hallway, and then some signs explaining what each pipe or wire does for the station housing the Museum of Cosmology.
And no, I'm not going to add a floor. When the pipe breaks, players can walk on the sloped floor and run from one door to another without stopping, just fine, and I like how different the shape of the room *feels* after the glass breaks. You feel like something suddenly *happened* that changes the layout.
I might add more breakable sections later in the level. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Or perhaps unbreakable ones... you know that feeling where you can see an area you want to get to, but you're blocked off from it? Immagine travelling through an unbreakable glass pipe over a room full of enemies... or immagine looking up and seeing skulks you can't touch skittering through a tube! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Trust me on this one, guys. Glass tubes <i>rock.</i>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Immagine travelling through an unbreakable glass pipe over a room full of enemies... or immagine looking up and seeing skulks you can't touch skittering through a tube!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like that 'untouchable skulk' idea. Maybe have an echo inside the glass pipe so when the skulk laughs at the marines passing underneath, it echoes throughout the whole area. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
For some reason I just had a vision of a Lerk doing its spore cloud thing in the pipe, and the whole length of glass pipe fills with yellow smoke. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Make sure you add little signs and stuff with the "exhibits". Maybe a sign for the tube, so people get the idea that its a museum, and not some whacky tube filled space station.
Interesting idea. I have to say, though, that the glass tube could use a bit of improvement. It just doesn't look all that great since it's entirely made of glass -- it's pretty hard to judge the size and depth of it. What I'd suggest is to add some steel bars running down the length of the tube, one at each corner of the tube. This would probably making it look cooler in addition to seeming a bit more realistic -- I'd expect that a tube composed of glass wouldn't be able to support itself that well. I think a metal floor might look cool too.
A glass tube cant sustain itself because glass isnt a solid thing...... actually glass is a liquid =P after 40 years, if you look at the window, the upper part is really thin, while the lower side is thick =)
True - I read some where (and evenone knows that if it's in a book it's true) that over a million years glass would have simply drained (or melted in a way) out it's container.
there has actually been a fair bit of debate concerning that topic.... turns out, in most studies, the thickness of the glass at the bottom (often in old church windows) was due to the techniques of manufacturing, not due to age. Mind you, arguments continue, but i think glass is currently considered a 'semi-solid'. and besides, why does it have to be glass? maybe it's transparent metal. this is the future after all
<!--QuoteBegin--WarpZone+Nov 21 2002, 12:33 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WarpZone @ Nov 21 2002, 12:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The "glass" sections are actually made from the same metal as the rest of the station's bulkhead, except with photon-conductive fibers threaded through it at the nano level. When light hits one side of it, it gets transmitted through the fibers and comes out the other side.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ahh, exactly like this <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
Maybe make the floor into a few different levels, add gratings, cables, girders and so on.
It just looks.. empty.
And yeah, the door could be a bit bigger, with some acompanying structure, not just a hole in the wall with a door in it you know? Maybe some bulky stuff around it.
Ah well.. Keep on it. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
By the way, the ceiling glass has some detail to it. It's not totally transparent. You just can't tell very well from that one screenshot because of the nebula.
<a href='http://warpzone.cust.nearlyfreespeech.net/halflife/graphics/ns_wz4.png' target='_blank'>Here's a better perspective on the skylight.</a> See the frosted white fringes?
Added a story to the first post of this thread, so you can see why I have the crazy ceilings and such. ^_^
Forget it. Project cancelled. The reason? There is no cost-effective way to make glass that skulks can walk on and the commander can build through.
If the makers of NS would make it so that skulks can walk on clip brushes <i>or</i> add rendering properites such as "additive" to the func_seethrough entity, then my map would be doable.
The way things are right now, I have discovered that the only way to make glass that can be built through AND clung to as skulks is to make func_illusionaries for the appearence of additive glass, and then put func_seethroughs with the opacity values 0 and 1 (0 and 0 make thems appear as if the number was 255 for some stupid reason.)
Unfortuately, in the area I had designed, doing glass this way drove my r_speeds up from ~520 (when I was using clip brushes before I tested the map as aliens) to ~720 in the marine spawn, (which is unacceptable.)
I urge the NS team to add render mode controls to func_seethrough. In the meantime, I am defeated. A map with fancy glass ceilings is totally undoable. I might try to do another map for NS, if I can think of a good idea for one. In the meantime, this one's dead.
For glass, you should use texture render mode. func_seethrough alphas work using this mode. Set the commander alpha to 0 and the player alpha to 80-100 or so. Voila. Windows the skulks can walk on and the commander can build through.
Glass ceilings have been and continue to be entirely doable. I suggest next time you not give up so quickly.
You mean they turn into glass by default? I never thought of trying that... crap... well, having more options for the rendermode would still be nice, but dang. This is the kind of thing that would never occur to me unless someone told me about it or I read it in an FAQ. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Thanks, Squirrel. I'll see if this helps or not... I sure hope this works. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Would lowering that column a bit make any huge difference (style-wise, I mean)?
Maybe have it level with the platform on the far wall.
I've lowered it a bit. Not all the way to the floor, but a bit. Should be more manageable now, and I'm going to add ladders on the sides for quick marine access to kill off that pesky skulk chewing on the CC. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
i like the pink and the frosted edges work well on the cieling glass... and very good job on the columns that go up very stylish looks like a lot of poly's(poly's the right word?)
but yeh good work
For some reason, I'm still seeing r_speeds above 700. The ceiling seems to be the culprit. Mainly only when you are in one specific spot, (the marine spawn resource node,) looking out at the CC in one specific direction.
I would hate to have to re-do the marine spawn entirely, but I'm not sure what else I can do to solve this. It's tempting to say "Well, since r_speeds up to 1000 are allowed in commander view, then I should be able to get away with that here, especially since the r_speeds of this room are much lower when the ceiling doesn't get rendered." but that's a cop-out.
We'll see what I can do about this. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I really like this, damn, if you cancel this i kill you....
<a href='http://warpzone.cust.nearlyfreespeech.net/halflife/graphics/ns_wz1.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://warpzone.cust.nearlyfreespeech.net/halflife/graphics/ns_wz1t.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'></a>
<a href='http://warpzone.cust.nearlyfreespeech.net/halflife/graphics/ns_wz1.jpg' target='_blank'>-Marine Spawn</a>
As you can see, I gave in and completely re-did the spawn room. Ta-da! Check out those r_speeds! I had to sacrifice some detail in the ceiling, and the room is smaller, (which may actually be a good thing for most marines' defense tactics) but I finally got the r_speeds managable, and I also started using jpegs instead of pngs when I realized they actually compressed better for images of this type. So that means now you get thumbnails! Yay!
<b>Project is not cancelled at this time.</b> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
This is probably the last time I'll mess with the marine spawn until after playtesting. No, I refuse to even add detail until then. Stay tuned for screenshots of...
DUN DUN DUN!
<b>OTHER AREAS!!</b>
like a chandelier or somthing ==DD
Added pic of the tube connecting the marine spawn to the rest of them map. Long narrow hallway = liability to aliens... but only until the glass breaks. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<a href='http://warpzone.cust.nearlyfreespeech.net/halflife/graphics/ns_wz2.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://warpzone.cust.nearlyfreespeech.net/halflife/graphics/ns_wz2t.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'></a>
<a href='http://warpzone.cust.nearlyfreespeech.net/halflife/graphics/ns_wz2.jpg' target='_blank'>-Everyone loves glass tubes!</a>
btw, when it does break, does it go all at once or in sections? in sections may be better, but could complicate things too much.
also, what is the purpose of the glass hallway room? sure, it's very sexy and purple, but why? and how why would someone want a glass tube running through it?
And no, I'm not going to add a floor. When the pipe breaks, players can walk on the sloped floor and run from one door to another without stopping, just fine, and I like how different the shape of the room *feels* after the glass breaks. You feel like something suddenly *happened* that changes the layout.
I might add more breakable sections later in the level. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Or perhaps unbreakable ones... you know that feeling where you can see an area you want to get to, but you're blocked off from it? Immagine travelling through an unbreakable glass pipe over a room full of enemies... or immagine looking up and seeing skulks you can't touch skittering through a tube! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Trust me on this one, guys. Glass tubes <i>rock.</i>
I like that 'untouchable skulk' idea. Maybe have an echo inside the glass pipe so when the skulk laughs at the marines passing underneath, it echoes throughout the whole area. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
For some reason I just had a vision of a Lerk doing its spore cloud thing in the pipe, and the whole length of glass pipe fills with yellow smoke. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Different feel from the default maps. Ill definately get this when its ready.
Make sure you add little signs and stuff with the "exhibits". Maybe a sign for the tube, so people get the idea that its a museum, and not some whacky tube filled space station.
and besides, why does it have to be glass? maybe it's transparent metal. this is the future after all
Ahh, exactly like this <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->