I was playing Ns_Eclipse when a marine with HA/HMG/Welder came into the computer core and started flying everwhere trying to kill stuff! Luckily i was a fade and the marine was dumb enough to try and take out our defenses before going after the hive. So i ripped the marine to shreads with acid rocket and he never came back again.
Weren't you guys listening?!?! A good gorge would have webbed the place! Web paralizes the marine so he cannot fire or move. After the primary effects of web wear off then the marine is slowed and still he cannot fire! Just web the guy directly and have your OCs or skulks finish it off! Or you can have a little fun and use healing spray on him <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> That'll kill him too! Funny kills are so funny.
I've heard of lerks being able to carry fades before (not sure if this still works) so why not load a fade onto a lerk, fly up to the marines level and acid rocket the crap outta him? Or better yet, have it so the fade can jump onto the hive and rip the marine a new one.
<!--QuoteBegin--Ravlen+Nov 25 2002, 06:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ravlen @ Nov 25 2002, 06:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The thing is, the aliens have so many ways to combat this. Keep the vents covered, send in the fades, lerks, skulks. I've been killed many times doing this, and I just fly back and do it again, until it dies. The one thing I don't do is crouch and use welder. I might try it sometime, but for some reason I feel that I do more damage with an HMG that is so close not a single bullet misses. (if an HMG at close range does more damage to a defensive tower or a resource tower, why would it do less damage to the hive than a welder? something to test out I guess).
And as for the people saying "How would you feel if a lerk could fly into your base and chomp your CC while you can only shoot it for 4dmg?" They can do that NOW. Fly into a base, over the turrets (even easier for the aliens, IMHO), get to the chair. With adrenaline, start chomping, when a marine comes near, put up some umbra, there 0 damage. Just like that marine on your hive. and THAT can be more devastating than losing a hive (if the commander isn't smart).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Only costs 30 resource to build a new CC, compared to 80 for a new hive. Then a few more problems:
1. Umbra is not fool-proof, you will get hit with bullets every now and then (maybe every 15th or so bullet hits)
2. It takes less time for a marine with a welder to kill a hive than a single lerk chomping on the CC.
3. You could just take a grenade launcher or go knifing around like mad, there's bound to be enough people spawning in there.
I have yet to see a jetpacker go *over* any alien defenses, they go around them. Most hives on all the maps have vents directly into them. In nancy (for example), every single hive room has a vent and they're impossible to block with static defenses. Web is no use as that marine *should* come through the vents with his welder burning because of web (and cloaked skulks/lerks). Finally, the welder and HMG perform on par on the hives IMO, but the welder has bonuses, namely it's silent (sometimes the hive sound alarm doesn't play until you get the "your hive is dying", but hearing someone empty HMG ammo into something non-stop is kinda a good hint something is happening), it doesn't slow you down and you can't be webbed (a very lucky shot at some weird angle makes it through the hive).
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Weren't you guys listening?!?! A good gorge would have webbed the place! Web paralizes the marine so he cannot fire or move. After the primary effects of web wear off then the marine is slowed and still he cannot fire! Just web the guy directly and have your OCs or skulks finish it off! Or you can have a little fun and <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let's repeat it again shall we? The marine is being stupid if he doesn't fly while burning his welder. If he does, he's practically immune to web.
Umbra blocks 6/7 shots. Welder kills buildings much faster then knife in my experience. I don't know the actual damage/second so I can't give a quantitative analysis.
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
Welder does twice the damage of the knife AND has longer range to boot. The knife doesn't take five seconds to activate though.
There are a few things you can do to protect the hive from a single jetpacker ... build a tower of chambers and climb on top of the hive and build a couple of OC's there.
Same thing with vents. Build a tower so the OC at the top of the tower can fire directly into the vent. That will force the jetpacker to announce himself, allowing you to get to the hive in time. Incidentially, it will allow fades and gorges to use the vents as well.
Notice that crounching on a hive probably _may_ trigger the same marine-in-vent bug that makes marines invincible in vents. That bug goes away in 1.03 though, so it shouldn't be much to worry about.
<!--QuoteBegin--othell+Nov 24 2002, 11:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (othell @ Nov 24 2002, 11:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Wyked+Nov 24 2002, 11:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wyked @ Nov 24 2002, 11:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->it doesnt help, and hopefully in a future patch this will get fixed.. ive done this tactic once.
I jp'd to the top of a hive, sat there and welded it to death.. had 5 OC's 2 fades and a skulk all trying to kill me and i would take very small amounts of damage.. by the time the hive died i had taken about 30 points..
I think its the same problem you get with humans in the vents and the hitboxes getting all messed up. It is cheap, and a respectable player shouldnt be doing it, because taking that little damage from near direct hits with acid and a skulk biting me the whole time means there is a bug somewhere.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> LOL.... Thought police coming to get us. Please. Jetpacking up to the top of a hive is very effective. I've done it often, but ya know what?? I've died from it often too. Wanna know why? Because the other team did more than just look up there and say "uhhh.... I cant get to him. Where's the next marine?"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> all i know is i sat on the sewer hive in caged with 2 fades shooting me and a skulk biting at me and took next to no damage <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> seems kinda wierd to me.. maybe the other hives wont mess you up like that, but i know i should have taken a lot more damage than i did.
I think welding a hive is as legit a strategy as can be. The fact that you don't take much damage because of the hitbox issues are bugs that need to be fixed.
I would, however, call using the ready room bug to send resources to your gorges so you can build hives faster an exploit and not a strategy.
<!--QuoteBegin--[2]Fatal+Nov 26 2002, 06:47 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([2]Fatal @ Nov 26 2002, 06:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think welding a hive is as legit a strategy as can be. The fact that you don't take much damage because of the hitbox issues are bugs that need to be fixed.
I would, however, call using the ready room bug to send resources to your gorges so you can build hives faster an exploit and not a strategy.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Uhhuh. As far as I know, the ready room "exploit" will be fixed in 1.03. Killing hives with welders also depends on a bug IF someone tries to defend the hive. Using the hitbox bug to your advantage and killing hives with it is just as bad an exploit as redistributing your money to the team, if not worse. Of course I am biased as a mostly alien player (not through choice, rather through idiotic 10 marines vs 5 aliens teams on most public servers).
Aaronvroom vroom der party startahJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7020Members
Maybe this issue will resolve itself if/when the marine hitbox issue gets fixed. Because perhaps then this jetpack rambo will be a lot more vulnerable from underneath. Otherwise it sounds like a valid tactic. If you can manage to sneak into a hive with just standard armor, good for you.
<!--QuoteBegin--Hobbes+Nov 25 2002, 10:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hobbes @ Nov 25 2002, 10:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The marine didn't have Heavy Armour <i>and</i> a jetpack.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ok, maybe i over exagerated a bit <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Weren't you guys listening?!?! A good gorge would have webbed the place! Web paralizes the marine so he cannot fire or move. After the primary effects of web wear off then the marine is slowed and still he cannot fire! Just web the guy directly and have your OCs or skulks finish it off! Or you can have a little fun and
Let's repeat it again shall we? The marine is being stupid if he doesn't fly while burning his welder. If he does, he's practically immune to web. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
em. what i mean was that the gorg could shoot his webs directly at the marine. No web appears and the marine still gets paralized and encumbered.
<!--QuoteBegin--domesticxdispute+Nov 25 2002, 12:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (domesticxdispute @ Nov 25 2002, 12:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Madjai+Nov 24 2002, 05:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Madjai @ Nov 24 2002, 05:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->couldnt you blink on top of the hive and rip him a new one?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Blinking on top of hive = stuck in hive<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> not true
<!--QuoteBegin--Vecdran+Nov 26 2002, 11:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Vecdran @ Nov 26 2002, 11:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--domesticxdispute+Nov 25 2002, 12:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (domesticxdispute @ Nov 25 2002, 12:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Madjai+Nov 24 2002, 05:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Madjai @ Nov 24 2002, 05:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->couldnt you blink on top of the hive and rip him a new one?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Blinking on top of hive = stuck in hive<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> not true
you point at the ceiling above it<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> = stuck in hive or a fall back to the floor most of the time
Christ the jetpack takes skill to use. Getting up on that hive isn't a piece of cake. If I'm commanding a team of good marines I'll research jetpacks first because they're so sweet.
<!--QuoteBegin--(e)kent+Nov 27 2002, 02:26 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ((e)kent @ Nov 27 2002, 02:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Christ the jetpack takes skill to use. Getting up on that hive isn't a piece of cake. If I'm commanding a team of good marines I'll research jetpacks first because they're so sweet.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I never had any problems with getting wherever I wanted with the jetpack, are people really so clueless that they can't use them properly? Of course I have the advantage of playing tribes (2) for a looong time, but still, it's sooooo easy to fly to the hive's "roof".
Comments
Weren't you guys listening?!?! A good gorge would have webbed the place! Web paralizes the marine so he cannot fire or move. After the primary effects of web wear off then the marine is slowed and still he cannot fire! Just web the guy directly and have your OCs or skulks finish it off! Or you can have a little fun and use healing spray on him <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> That'll kill him too! Funny kills are so funny.
And as for the people saying "How would you feel if a lerk could fly into your base and chomp your CC while you can only shoot it for 4dmg?" They can do that NOW. Fly into a base, over the turrets (even easier for the aliens, IMHO), get to the chair. With adrenaline, start chomping, when a marine comes near, put up some umbra, there 0 damage. Just like that marine on your hive. and THAT can be more devastating than losing a hive (if the commander isn't smart).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only costs 30 resource to build a new CC, compared to 80 for a new hive. Then a few more problems:
1. Umbra is not fool-proof, you will get hit with bullets every now and then (maybe every 15th or so bullet hits)
2. It takes less time for a marine with a welder to kill a hive than a single lerk chomping on the CC.
3. You could just take a grenade launcher or go knifing around like mad, there's bound to be enough people spawning in there.
I have yet to see a jetpacker go *over* any alien defenses, they go around them. Most hives on all the maps have vents directly into them. In nancy (for example), every single hive room has a vent and they're impossible to block with static defenses. Web is no use as that marine *should* come through the vents with his welder burning because of web (and cloaked skulks/lerks). Finally, the welder and HMG perform on par on the hives IMO, but the welder has bonuses, namely it's silent (sometimes the hive sound alarm doesn't play until you get the "your hive is dying", but hearing someone empty HMG ammo into something non-stop is kinda a good hint something is happening), it doesn't slow you down and you can't be webbed (a very lucky shot at some weird angle makes it through the hive).
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Weren't you guys listening?!?! A good gorge would have webbed the place! Web paralizes the marine so he cannot fire or move. After the primary effects of web wear off then the marine is slowed and still he cannot fire! Just web the guy directly and have your OCs or skulks finish it off! Or you can have a little fun and
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let's repeat it again shall we? The marine is being stupid if he doesn't fly while burning his welder. If he does, he's practically immune to web.
Welder kills buildings much faster then knife in my experience. I don't know the actual damage/second so I can't give a quantitative analysis.
There are a few things you can do to protect the hive from a single jetpacker ... build a tower of chambers and climb on top of the hive and build a couple of OC's there.
Same thing with vents. Build a tower so the OC at the top of the tower can fire directly into the vent. That will force the jetpacker to announce himself, allowing you to get to the hive in time. Incidentially, it will allow fades and gorges to use the vents as well.
Notice that crounching on a hive probably _may_ trigger the same marine-in-vent bug that makes marines invincible in vents. That bug goes away in 1.03 though, so it shouldn't be much to worry about.
I jp'd to the top of a hive, sat there and welded it to death.. had 5 OC's 2 fades and a skulk all trying to kill me and i would take very small amounts of damage.. by the time the hive died i had taken about 30 points..
I think its the same problem you get with humans in the vents and the hitboxes getting all messed up. It is cheap, and a respectable player shouldnt be doing it, because taking that little damage from near direct hits with acid and a skulk biting me the whole time means there is a bug somewhere.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LOL.... Thought police coming to get us. Please. Jetpacking up to the top of a hive is very effective. I've done it often, but ya know what?? I've died from it often too. Wanna know why? Because the other team did more than just look up there and say "uhhh.... I cant get to him. Where's the next marine?"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
all i know is i sat on the sewer hive in caged with 2 fades shooting me and a skulk biting at me and took next to no damage <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> seems kinda wierd to me.. maybe the other hives wont mess you up like that, but i know i should have taken a lot more damage than i did.
I would, however, call using the ready room bug to send resources to your gorges so you can build hives faster an exploit and not a strategy.
I would, however, call using the ready room bug to send resources to your gorges so you can build hives faster an exploit and not a strategy.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uhhuh. As far as I know, the ready room "exploit" will be fixed in 1.03. Killing hives with welders also depends on a bug IF someone tries to defend the hive. Using the hitbox bug to your advantage and killing hives with it is just as bad an exploit as redistributing your money to the team, if not worse. Of course I am biased as a mostly alien player (not through choice, rather through idiotic 10 marines vs 5 aliens teams on most public servers).
ok, maybe i over exagerated a bit <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Weren't you guys listening?!?! A good gorge would have webbed the place! Web paralizes the marine so he cannot fire or move. After the primary effects of web wear off then the marine is slowed and still he cannot fire! Just web the guy directly and have your OCs or skulks finish it off! Or you can have a little fun and
Let's repeat it again shall we? The marine is being stupid if he doesn't fly while burning his welder. If he does, he's practically immune to web.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
em. what i mean was that the gorg could shoot his webs directly at the marine. No web appears and the marine still gets paralized and encumbered.
Blinking on top of hive = stuck in hive<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
not true
you point at the ceiling above it
Blinking on top of hive = stuck in hive<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
not true
you point at the ceiling above it<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
= stuck in hive or a fall back to the floor most of the time
I never had any problems with getting wherever I wanted with the jetpack, are people really so clueless that they can't use them properly? Of course I have the advantage of playing tribes (2) for a looong time, but still, it's sooooo easy to fly to the hive's "roof".