Was the additional +5 armor needed?
SmoodCroozn
Join Date: 2003-11-04 Member: 22310Members
Join Date: 2003-11-04 Member: 22310Members
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?s=5788380455876285440&showtopic=86623" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....showtopic=86623</a>
It promised "new branches in the tech tree", "diversity" and other such ideas. Well, armor 1 is still the first arms lab upgrade in nearly every match played.
What I'm wondering is why the +5 armor was added to begin with and kept in, even though the main goal of the idea still isn't accomplished.
Landing 5 bites as a skulk on a armor 3 lmg is ridiculous, if he has any decent aim. I see many games on aero, g4b2s, bad and jigglys, ending within minutes because the aliens have an extremely hard time holding onto territory, because they simply can't take down marines, even in close-quarters combat.
I do feel that the +5 armor could be removed, because it didn't accomplish what the creator intended. However, if anyone could tell me how does it benefit the game, I'll be happy to hear it.
It promised "new branches in the tech tree", "diversity" and other such ideas. Well, armor 1 is still the first arms lab upgrade in nearly every match played.
What I'm wondering is why the +5 armor was added to begin with and kept in, even though the main goal of the idea still isn't accomplished.
Landing 5 bites as a skulk on a armor 3 lmg is ridiculous, if he has any decent aim. I see many games on aero, g4b2s, bad and jigglys, ending within minutes because the aliens have an extremely hard time holding onto territory, because they simply can't take down marines, even in close-quarters combat.
I do feel that the +5 armor could be removed, because it didn't accomplish what the creator intended. However, if anyone could tell me how does it benefit the game, I'll be happy to hear it.
Comments
i dont know what game youre playing. a parasited armor0 marine takes 2 hits + 2 more because of my aim + 2 more because of medpacks = 6 bites.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
fixed.
touche
Having the +5 armour would benefit a marine team whose skills fall way short of the opposing teams'. However, I agree with an alien team struggling against a marine team who can actually aim well. So I believe they have come to quite a good compromise on the issue.
i dont know what game youre playing. a parasited armor0 marine takes 2 hits + 2 more because of the server + 2 more because of medpacks = 6 bites.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
More than that...
With super jump marine, he knockback 10 meters from you and have time to fire all the bullets he have... and i don't talk about the super fast pistol shots.
More than that...
With super jump marine, he knockback 10 meters from you and have time to fire all the bullets he have... and i don't talk about the super fast pistol shots.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, that is more than needed, isn't it?
The Skulk will take additional 20 hits due to super warp and if it is spanish or finnish (or a german tank lawl), it'll even need the super fast pistol <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
fixed.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it wouldve been more funny if it hadnt taken me 5 reads to notice the difference between the that and my line. anyways, youre probably right but i wont go down without a compromise of some kind. so <b>8 bites</b> is my final offer
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Comm?
Stretch out with your feelings?
Feelings sir?
God damn it soldier! USE THE FORCE!!!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If I see a marine, to me, it's a marine marine, so I parasite whatever I can, because I don't read the name that jumps out. And also on encouraging parasiting... What if you already parasited what you could before? I don't think this would help those people. And the nubbers... they probably still don't parasite anyway.
Okay other than buffing the entire marine team in order to promote parasite, what else does +5 armor really do? In terms of reinforcing with a threat... Remember when co gave aliens exp that gradually rises, in order to "support" marine pushes? People weren't exactly "motivated".
If I see a marine, to me, it's a marine marine, so I parasite whatever I can, because I don't read the name that jumps out. And also on encouraging parasiting... What if you already parasited what you could before? I don't think this would help those people. And the nubbers... they probably still don't parasite anyway.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you had played before the added 5 armor, you would know that very few people parasited on pubs. Even in competitive play, very few teams utilized it. After the additional 5 armor, as soon as people figured out that a parasite would take the marines to 2 bites, all of a sudden almost every marine became parasited.
The added 5 armor also did what it was supposed to do - break the armor 1 trend. Prior to this patch I almost never saw anyone go anything other than armor 1. When a marine died in 2 bites, it was just too hard to kill the skulk. Excluding when the marines would get knocked back across the room of course.
Smood, answer me honestly: how much did you play before the +5 armor?
I remember it used ot be ZOMGOMZOGMOGMOMG SCREENSHOT!!!!!!!! parasite kill!!!! back then , because it was so rare. You preach all the time about dumbing down the game, yet you are against something that intrinsically motivates newer players to parasite? Sorry, I can't agree with that. This upgrade has made pub play much better IMHO.
The benefit of parasite is just that, to see where marine movement is. Adding a threat to reinforce this is not necessary.
Again I point to my example about co. Flay and company saw that marines did not push out and would stay at base most of the time. They tried a number of ways to "encourage" marines to push out. Among them was adding a threat, which was that aliens got free exp over time.
Now the thinking was that the marines would be smart enough to know that the longer the game went, the aliens would eventually overlevel them and win. But that did not happen.
In fact, the game went as it used to, except now the endgame became heavily skewed.
So while I think encouraging can be good, using a threat isn't always the best manner. I don't know the numbers as the ns hit/kill machine is outdated, but do higher lifeforms require more hits to kill marines than before?
I'm sure in competitive play, skulks ALWAYS parasite. This hasn't changed their game, but only made skulking weaker.
And then you'd think, why stop with parasite? Let's look at umbra. Some would say it's not used enough in pubs. Are you going to use negative reinforcement and make other lifeforms die even quicker to threaten people to use umbra?
I'm not sure exactly where between 2.0 and now, the +5 armor came through, but I do see aliens having a very difficult time holding territory in the early game. And while I believe parasiting is always a good thing, using a threat isn't the only option to do this. Perhaps this +5 armor could be removed and give skulks, already without their bonus hive armor, a bigger hand in the late game. They've only gotten weaker since 3.2.
Smood, thats not how things work. If my years on these boards has taught me anything its that the aliens always need nerfing and the marines always need buffing.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
because 3.1 was all about marine buffs right
If you ambush he is dead anway.
If you bhop-charge him it all depends on the rines aim (because your crosshair will be several times on the rine, allowing to para him)
The problem for new/not so good players is that if you para a marine early, he will be aware of ypur presence. So you either have to para him, and then bite him down the same moment, or you just para him and let him go for another minute. Or you utilize a 2 skulk ambush.
If skulks actually took out marine res and parasited, the alien might be winning 70% of the pub games or so.
Smood, why do you go digging around for some change you don't have any real knowledge about to try to get it unchanged? You obviously don't understand what +5 did. Spend less time trying to fix the game and more time actually learning about it.
At this point there really isn't any practical way to remove the armor one trend. either armor one works or it doesn't (working being saving the marine from an extra bite). If it doesn't work, it is completely worthless, marines will get a HUGE nerf, and instead of people usually going a1 first, no one will ever go a1 first. a1 first is a good plan because having your marines live longer will always be better than having them do more damage/sec(unless its some insane amount), because the game is about much more than damage/sec.
And in reality, I see PG first almost much as A1 first. The only no-no's are mt or w1 first really.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good point, but what do you think about getting MT or catpacks prior to Armor level 1 spending?
not impossible though. get 4 marines to run straight out of the base and gun down 1 RT before the aliens have a chance to set up chambers/lerk/ambush. that can buy you time to sit on res with MT and wait for upgrades before the fade comes. risky, though.
^ only talking about evil clanner games, though. in pub games just rush arms lab upgrades for marine victories.
catpacks are just for show. requiring research (time+preventing other AL ups), being expensive, and not speeding up reload time makes them ineffective. i dont see a situation where early cats make a noticable difference at the expense of a1. i've got the best med-drop aim in ns and i won't touch catpacks with a bargepole.
alternatives to a1 are only fast phasetech or mt. however having no ups in clan matches will probably lead the aliens to win (when theyre not far worse than the marines) simply because fades can kill them so easily.
when the lerk is up the cripple 5 armor points dont give a damn anymore, the 3 or 4 out of 100 situations are the exception
i think your points is that you cant hit parasites (i cant either but i dont want the game to be changed) <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
i've got the best med-drop aim in ns<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol
Good point, but what do you think about getting MT or catpacks prior to Armor level 1 spending?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Catpacks? Definetely not. MT can be a huge help, but a few mins into the game you are going to see fades. I think they are the alien class least hampered by MT because they just move too fast. Even when you know they are coming it often doesn't matter anyway. Its definetely possible to get MT and A1 at pretty much the same time, which only MT-viable way to go I think.