<!--quoteo(post=1625255:date=May 6 2007, 04:32 AM:name=Shockwave)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Shockwave @ May 6 2007, 04:32 AM) [snapback]1625255[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I would agree the current state of the Skulk means they're not much fun to play past early game.
Why? *Shrug* <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> because then you need to eat res nodes and <!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->THATS NOT <i>FUN!!!</i><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
edited May 2007
<!--quoteo(post=1625257:date=May 6 2007, 04:42 AM:name=TOmekki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TOmekki @ May 6 2007, 04:42 AM) [snapback]1625257[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> because then you need to eat res nodes and <!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->THATS NOT <i>FUN!!!</i><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, it's funny how long in total you have to stay, hold use and attack next to res towers regarding the whole game, which is considered fast paced.
Building, welding, healing and wasting res on hives/chambers that won't get protected isn't fun either. The bad score system doesn't even encourage and reward you for most of those things.
Omg, almost the whole rts part is broken, let's forget about ns and play co!!!12
<!--quoteo(post=1625267:date=May 6 2007, 05:40 AM:name=DC_Darkling)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DC_Darkling @ May 6 2007, 05:40 AM) [snapback]1625267[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> keep saying, ina teambased game scores are wothless and should be removed. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah but then you dont have hopsu or aA screaming "LOL CARRY" over vent every 20 seconds :x
people are really good at getting off topic around here...
I don't think skulks need a defense buff of any kind besides what they have. Look at hive 2 ability, xenocide. Now i don't want to speak for the devs but i would think that that would mean that we shouldn't be worrying about staying alive but more about trying to take as many people with us when we die.
if you want to run around and never use your res while still trying to play on the level as a fade or onos you're just kidding yourself. There's a good reason why the skulk costs no res to play and the others don't.
<!--quoteo(post=1625263:date=May 6 2007, 06:17 AM:name=pSyk0mAn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pSyk0mAn @ May 6 2007, 06:17 AM) [snapback]1625263[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Building, welding, healing and wasting res on hives/chambers that won't get protected isn't fun either. The bad score system doesn't even encourage and reward you for most of those things.
Omg, almost the whole rts part is broken, let's forget about ns and play co!!!12 <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or that could be fixed, no? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
Yeah, and first of all we seriously need to fix sarcasm detection in the intraweb <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1624595:date=May 2 2007, 09:48 PM:name=Cxwf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cxwf @ May 2 2007, 09:48 PM) [snapback]1624595[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Hive2 Armor on a skulk represents 1/2 of a single LMG bullet. <b>1/2 of one bullet!</b> Why exactly do you care? Why do you think it matters to skulks effectiveness? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Use <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/static/comm_manual/basic/damageCalculator.htm" target="_blank">this</a>.
A level 0 lmg will kill a hive 1 armor skulk in 9 shots. It will kill a hive 2 skulk in 10. But then you factor in reg, missing and such and blah blah. But what's more interesting is the pistol. A level 2 pistol will kill a hive armor 1 skulk in 4 shots and a hive 2 armor skulk in 5. A pistol shot isn't as easily replaced. I couldnt get the hive 0 armor results, nor do I know how they work...
This was how it worked in 3.1, but the fact is that skulks are weakened in 3.2. I do remember skulks holding their own a lot better in 3.1 than in 3.2. I'm not sure how every situation would play out, but in those where a marine has only a few pistol bullets left and a skulk is on him, it would give that marine an advantage.
I'm still trying to figure out how the armor system works: - whenever a marine gets hit, half goes to his armor right? - whenever an alien gets hit... does it work the same?
From the ns damage calculator, hive armor 1 aliens give 2/3s of the damage to the armor... So I guess that makes each point of armor worth 2 health? That would give skulks 90 hp. Hive 2 armor gives skulks 96 hp. How does hive armor 0 work then? I assume hive 0 armor give skulks just 80 hp? That means 1 less pistol shot, bullet or 2 pistol shots and 2 extra bullets when they are supposed to get hive 2 armor. I think this is a significant nerf to the skulk.
But if you know exactly how this armor system works, be my guest and correct me.
Adjust that to 10 and 5 bullets at hive 1, you forgot the innate regen.
[Edit] And the reason skulks seem weaker in 3.2 is because the silly animations when jumping have been removed, so no crazypubhop at 650 speed for a celerity skulk any longer. Yay.
[Edit2] Not to forget: armor wasn't set to hive 0, but hive 1.
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
<!--quoteo(post=1626105:date=May 10 2007, 07:55 PM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ May 10 2007, 07:55 PM) [snapback]1626105[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm still trying to figure out how the armor system works: - whenever a marine gets hit, half goes to his armor right? - whenever an alien gets hit... does it work the same?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> When a marine is hit, 7/10 goes to armor (or 19/20 with heavy armor). Of that, 1/2 is negated.
The same is true of hive 0, 1, and now 2 aliens. (Formerly at hive 2 it was 8/10 to armor and of that, 3/5 negated; and at hive 3, 9/10 to armor and of that, 2/3 negated.)
<!--quoteo(post=1626105:date=May 10 2007, 06:55 PM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ May 10 2007, 06:55 PM) [snapback]1626105[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Use <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/static/comm_manual/basic/damageCalculator.htm" target="_blank">this</a>.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That suffers from too much rounding error for my taste. I prefer to calulate it myself. A Civilian posted the correct numbers and ratios.
A Skulk with Hive1 armor has 90 effective hp, 91 with regen. A skulk with the old Hive2 armor has 95 effective hp, 96 with regen.
A Level2 Pistol does exactly 96 damage with 4 bullets. That skulk will die in the same 4 rounds whether he has Hive1 armor or Hive2 armor. In fact there are precious few ways to deal more than 91 but less than 96 damage to a skulk.
Comments
I would agree the current state of the Skulk means they're not much fun to play past early game.
Why? *Shrug*
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
because then you need to eat res nodes and <!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->THATS NOT <i>FUN!!!</i><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
because then you need to eat res nodes and <!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->THATS NOT <i>FUN!!!</i><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, it's funny how long in total you have to stay, hold use and attack next to res towers regarding the whole game, which is considered fast paced.
Building, welding, healing and wasting res on hives/chambers that won't get protected isn't fun either.
The bad score system doesn't even encourage and reward you for most of those things.
Omg, almost the whole rts part is broken, let's forget about ns and play co!!!12
keep saying, ina teambased game scores are wothless and should be removed.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah but then you dont have hopsu or aA screaming "LOL CARRY" over vent every 20 seconds :x
I don't think skulks need a defense buff of any kind besides what they have. Look at hive 2 ability, xenocide. Now i don't want to speak for the devs but i would think that that would mean that we shouldn't be worrying about staying alive but more about trying to take as many people with us when we die.
if you want to run around and never use your res while still trying to play on the level as a fade or onos you're just kidding yourself. There's a good reason why the skulk costs no res to play and the others don't.
Building, welding, healing and wasting res on hives/chambers that won't get protected isn't fun either.
The bad score system doesn't even encourage and reward you for most of those things.
Omg, almost the whole rts part is broken, let's forget about ns and play co!!!12
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or that could be fixed, no? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
Hive2 Armor on a skulk represents 1/2 of a single LMG bullet. <b>1/2 of one bullet!</b> Why exactly do you care? Why do you think it matters to skulks effectiveness?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Use <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/static/comm_manual/basic/damageCalculator.htm" target="_blank">this</a>.
A level 0 lmg will kill a hive 1 armor skulk in 9 shots. It will kill a hive 2 skulk in 10. But then you factor in reg, missing and such and blah blah. But what's more interesting is the pistol. A level 2 pistol will kill a hive armor 1 skulk in 4 shots and a hive 2 armor skulk in 5. A pistol shot isn't as easily replaced. I couldnt get the hive 0 armor results, nor do I know how they work...
This was how it worked in 3.1, but the fact is that skulks are weakened in 3.2. I do remember skulks holding their own a lot better in 3.1 than in 3.2. I'm not sure how every situation would play out, but in those where a marine has only a few pistol bullets left and a skulk is on him, it would give that marine an advantage.
I'm still trying to figure out how the armor system works:
- whenever a marine gets hit, half goes to his armor right?
- whenever an alien gets hit... does it work the same?
From the ns damage calculator, hive armor 1 aliens give 2/3s of the damage to the armor... So I guess that makes each point of armor worth 2 health? That would give skulks 90 hp. Hive 2 armor gives skulks 96 hp. How does hive armor 0 work then? I assume hive 0 armor give skulks just 80 hp? That means 1 less pistol shot, bullet or 2 pistol shots and 2 extra bullets when they are supposed to get hive 2 armor. I think this is a significant nerf to the skulk.
But if you know exactly how this armor system works, be my guest and correct me.
[Edit] And the reason skulks seem weaker in 3.2 is because the silly animations when jumping have been removed, so no crazypubhop at 650 speed for a celerity skulk any longer. Yay.
[Edit2] Not to forget: armor wasn't set to hive 0, but hive 1.
- whenever a marine gets hit, half goes to his armor right?
- whenever an alien gets hit... does it work the same?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When a marine is hit, 7/10 goes to armor (or 19/20 with heavy armor). Of that, 1/2 is negated.
The same is true of hive 0, 1, and now 2 aliens. (Formerly at hive 2 it was 8/10 to armor and of that, 3/5 negated; and at hive 3, 9/10 to armor and of that, 2/3 negated.)
Use <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/static/comm_manual/basic/damageCalculator.htm" target="_blank">this</a>.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That suffers from too much rounding error for my taste. I prefer to calulate it myself. A Civilian posted the correct numbers and ratios.
A Skulk with Hive1 armor has 90 effective hp, 91 with regen. A skulk with the old Hive2 armor has 95 effective hp, 96 with regen.
A Level2 Pistol does exactly 96 damage with 4 bullets. That skulk will die in the same 4 rounds whether he has Hive1 armor or Hive2 armor. In fact there are precious few ways to deal more than 91 but less than 96 damage to a skulk.