Rushing At The Beginnning

LancerEvoX · November 2002

Yea, i played as an alien for the first time. A rush in a pack in the beginning can over throw the marines. I played with a team who won 3 times within the first 2 mins because of this.

goorooloo · November 2002

Careful! If you eat that much, that quickly, you'll get indigestion!

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'>

Fossa · November 2002

All you have proven is that the marine team you played against sucked.

Lt_Warhound · November 2002

What's the down side of rushing?

Losing a hive.

If the marines have any clue, they will be waiting for the rush. Some or all of them will be aiming at the doors/passageways you will be rushing, and it can quickly turn a rush into a target shoot.

Pull! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'>

You can end up with all but the gorge dead, and no marines killed. At which point, if they are clueful, they will counterrush. In which case, you could lose the hive, and the game right there.

The problem is that aliens respawn one at a time at each hive. One hive, one alien, looooong wait for the next alien to respawn. And once the marines land at the hive, its again a target shoot, skulk spawns under the guns already, and often dies before getting a chance to move.

So, be careful about rushing in large games, and when the hive is close to the marine spawns (such as the generator or sewer hive on caged).

Fieari · November 2002

Um, having all skulks dead, with only the gorge alive is an optimal situation. ESPECIALLY in large games. Why? Because that means the gorge is getting ALL the resources directly to him, and him alone. This means more towers faster. This means a second hive faster. Death in a rush is not something tp be avoided, but rather something to be EMBRACED. Go suicide yourself, my hive brothers. Feast on marine flesh, but do not fear death. The meatpops won't be leaving their base any time soon... for they are idiots.

BoddoZerg · November 2002

lol, your <b>assuming</b> that the Marine team has no clue.

After a failed skulk rush, a marine rush can easily wipe the aliens straight off the map. Of course, this is assuming the Marines have half a brain and a sense of cooperation, which they rarely do in pub games.

Paladyne-TPF · November 2002

Even if the marines do manage to kill off all attacking skulks without taking considerable losses themselves (which is difficult, good team or no, unless the aliens don't know what they're doing), then the gorge has more resources than he knows what to do with. It wouldn't be hard to waddle over and set up an OC or two to delay the marines while the skulks are respawning. And those first few skulks should hang back and instill paranoia in the marines; let them know that whoever attacks that hive will be the first to get munched. This is enough to cause even good players to hesitate, allowing the gorge to setup basic defenses and/or the skulks to respawn. Against a good alien team, a marine counterrush is as unlikely to succeed as the initial alien rush; plus it leaves the problem of lone skulks mangling their base, so they cannot afford to be too agressive, too early.

An early rush by the skulks is always the way to go. It keeps the marines on their toes, allows you to potentially knock down a few structures and severely hamstring the marines, and if nothing else it speeds the gorge's building.

tleng · November 2002

don't forget to shout "RAWR" as you rush. Yeah I've never seen a marine counter-rush in a pub. Even if every skulk is killed. They're usually too busy building turrets and loading up their ammo to 250.

LancerEvoX · November 2002

yea, when we rushed, they were building and reloading, and had only 2 respawns. so we rushed to attack the marines while the other attacked the respawn.

padijun · November 2002

Couple of things I'd like to point out about counter rushing.

1. Skulk rushes are rarely in favor of the marines. 4 out of 5 times the marines lose more troops than they kill skulks.

2. The marines aren't sure where your hive is at the getgo. Remember, it's in one of 3 random places.

3. Marines take a lot longer than Kharaa to travel around the map. So even if their entire team kills all of your skulks, and they all have a coordinated rush on your hive (which they aren't sure where it is), half your team will have respawned by then.

4. Gorges get a boatload of resources while the rest of the team's dead, in the unlikely event that ALL your skulks die. More RTs, more chambers.

Successful marine counter rushes are exceptionally rare, and if it works, they deserve the win and a frigging medal.

Neo_Ghost · November 2002

yea I played a sad 5 player game and i as a comm pulled off a marine rush and murdered the aliens.
It isn't common for marines to do a counter attack on aliens. They always countinue with there buissness and make more turrents and so on. Rushes work mostly only the first round of a new map anyway. I encurage my team (the aleins) to rather, wait outside for a meal. The atvantage of this is, most arn't aware of this at the moment. Fewer come out at a time so less to mess with. And less likly for the enemy to expand leaving ur gorges to slop organic poop (Alien structures) all over the map.

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EX: |marine left base| <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <(help!!!) <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'>

ShadowDrgn · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (padijun @ Nov 25 2002, 06:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>2. The marines aren't sure where your hive is at the getgo. Remember, it's in one of 3 random places.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
The skulk rush tells them exactly where your hive is though, based on which direction you came from and how long it took. On most maps as a marine, I can always guess correctly from the skulk rush. The only solution to this is to have a few skulks take a different route (through some vents perhaps), which is the best way to attack anyway. Unfortunately it doesn't happen much on pubs, people usually just follow the leader.

woshoofoo · November 2002

In 99.9% of the cases, it's not only smart, but practically expected, of the aliens to rush. Remember, the aliens' general strategy is to place pressure on the marines long enough to build up everywhere, while the marines' general strategy is to slowly but surely claim expansions and hives.

(Sure, there are many exceptions, I know, but this is true in most games. If you don't agree, stop playing clan games with smart people and play on the vast majority- the dreaded PUBLIC servers.)

Given the alien strategy, rushing the marines to keep them off-balanced and defensive IS the whole point of the game- if only so your gorge can run around capping resources unmolested. Otherwise, (or if he's a n00b anyways), he'll have to build defenses at each resource/hive, which usually makes it harder to win.

No, the general strategy of rushing is a good one. (Like I said, there's never one strategy for 100% of the time, but this is the strategy that should be used MOST.)

The problem I see most is that the first rush goes well, skulks die but kill off more marines... and THEN, each skulk that respawns immediately zips off on a lemming-like rush.

WAIT for your other teammates. Two skulks are more than twice as deadly- the marines can't focus all their attention on YOU.

Obliterater · November 2002

I have seen a counter rush work very good many times when used. However most of the time Marines just sit in thier base tinkering with turret placement or lining up in front of the Magical Ammo Machine.

In fact we often have some one making defence at a second hive location before ANY of them even leave there base.

Still its a good idea to have 1 or 2 skulks sit above the exit of the Marine base to stop this counter rushing.
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'>

LancerEvoX · November 2002

i noticed it. in the beginning of a game, the skulks rush off as a pack, its deadly and can be well coordinated if someone orders and acts like a "commander". but immediately after respawn, that pack dissapears and its rush solo after respawn.

Morat · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Marines take a lot longer than Kharaa to travel around the map. So even if their entire team kills all of your skulks, and they all have a coordinated rush on your hive (which they aren't sure where it is), half your team will have respawned by then.
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Not only are they just slower but many maps have a short-cut vent or access between hives which means that the distance can be covered even more quickly. I've never seen a successful counter-rush by the marines on a pub, and if they did rush for a hive and forget all the resource and choke points between that and the marine spawn I'm reasonably sure that they'd get cut off and killed by the Kharaa in short order. Either that or they'd be so far from their spawn that the inevitable 2nd wave of Kharaa attacks would be devastating.

I've seen the marines take an empty hive location most effectively when they snuck to it without anyone noticing and got an advanced base set up in it. That can ruin your whole day, especially later on in the game when they can put siege cannons and phase gates up in it.

Lt_Warhound · November 2002

The marines have to guess which hive you are at?

Ah, no. They can tell within 15 seconds of game start _exactly which hive you start at.

All a commander has to do is jump in the chair, center the map on the hive location and LISTEN for a few seconds. No heartbeat noise, go listen at another hive location. Once he's listened at two hive locations, he knows _EXACTLY which hive you started at.

Not to mention that if he has time after dumping the initial structures he can 'listen' for the thunder of skulks running toward his base, giving the team a precious few seconds warning before you barge into the base.

Given the EXTREMELY slow respawn rate of the aliens with only one hive, losing all the skulks can lead to a lost game. One or two off chambers won't slow down 6 or 8 marines all charging into the hive.

Been there, seen that, lost the game. Its rare, but a real threat.

Not saying don't rush, rushing is good. Just saying be aware that marines can and do counterrush, if you let them, if they are smart. Something to watch for on maps where you can start close to the marines, such as ns_caged, Gen or Sewer hive are close enough the marine can be there before the second skulk respawns.

Rushing At The Beginnning

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